Should ASL be Banned from Deaf Ed programs?

[Cheri]

SEE doesn't make sense? That's new to me.

 

[shel90]

SEE doesn't make sense? That's new to me.

I witnessed it today first hand by a deaf person who grew up with it before learning ASL in high school. She told me that it was too confusing for her growing up. By watching her sign in SEE in the classroom, the concepts were not as clear as it was in ASL.

 

[jillio]

I witnessed it today first hand by a deaf person who grew up with it before learning ASL in high school. She told me that it was too confusing for her growing up. By watching her sign in SEE in the classroom, the concepts were not as clear as it was in ASL.

The difference between making something visable in a manner in which it is processed by the brain and making it visable in a manner which is not processed in the same way.

You can sweep your carpet with a broom, too, but it is much more efficient and productive to use the vacuum that is intended for that purpose. Oral syntax is intended for auditory processing. ASL syntax in intended for visual processing. Use the tool designed to get the job done.

 

[Cheri]

I witnessed it today first hand by a deaf person who grew up with it before learning ASL in high school. She told me that it was too confusing for her growing up. By watching her sign in SEE in the classroom, the concepts were not as clear as it was in ASL.

How can someone not understand signs match the elements of spoken English? unless she doesn't understand English nor English is too confusing to her?

 

[shel90]

How can someone not understand signs match the elements of spoken English? unless she doesn't understand English nor English is too confusing to her?

She has a BA degree in English. She understands English on an advanced level.

Oh, and she is fluent in written French too.

 

[jazzy]

You're absolutely correct, I did the same by asking both of my hearing sons to do "milk" and "beer" and we did it several times I still got it right..

Not me, I still misunderstood them.

 

[jazzy]

My student teacher who is deaf and grew up with ASL and SEE (dont know which one) was teasing my students during social studies class by signing SEE...they couldnt understand her at all and I couldnt either! It was funny!

Interest..... ummm I had no problem understanding SEE.

 

[jazzy]

What do you see?

I do know that each school is different.

I went to mainstream school with deaf programs. In elementary school, they had deaf classes and hearing classes for each grade. In junior high school, same. In high school, same.

When I went to elementary school, I was mainstream for a couple classes starting in the 3rd grade. In junior high school, I was fully mainstreamed in the 8th grade.

For the deaf ed classes in high school, the teachers allowed students to use ASL 100% of the time except for English class. This resulted in those deaf students not understanding any other subjects such as math, science, history, etc. They constantly failed their tests and the teachers would modify their grades so that they would pass.

When they graduated, they had 3rd grade Reading, 5th to 7th grade Math, almost no understanding of History and Science.

Ur kidding me? I used ASL 100% at mainstream and I did very in all of those classes except for English which I will always struggle with it thanks to oral program in my earliest year of childhood.

 

[jillio]

How can someone not understand signs match the elements of spoken English? unless she doesn't understand English nor English is too confusing to her?

The English is not the problem.

 

[jillio]

Not me, I still misunderstood them.

Yep, and also, the instance of asking someone to say a word, knowing what to expect, is just more of the prior knowledge variable than invalidates the results. As Shel so eloquently expalined.

 

[sirena rossa]

I have a profoundly deaf son, am fluent in ASL, SEE1, SEE2, and PSE, and have 22 year connection to the Deaf community. I am a Master's level professional in the field working on my PhD.

Now you.

wow, awesome. kudos on getting the PhD! Are u getting a PhD in speech therapy?
as for my connection - i am profoundly deaf with 85-90 dB loss in both ears (w/ two hearing aids) and am 100% oral. (although i did take an ASL class in college, it was fun) I was mainstreamed and did speech therapy for 12 years starting at age 1. So I am basically proof that teaching only speech and being predominately oral IS possible and CAN work successfully.

 

[jillio]

wow, awesome. kudos on getting the PhD! Are u getting a PhD in speech therapy?
as for my connection - i am profoundly deaf with 85-90 dB loss in both ears (w/ two hearing aids) and am 100% oral. (although i did take an ASL class in college, it was fun) I was mainstreamed and did speech therapy for 12 years starting at age 1. So I am basically proof that teaching only speech and being predominately oral IS possible and CAN work successfully.

Nope, my PhD will actually be in educational/counseling psychology.

I don't think anyone ever disagreed with the fact that there are oral successes. All we have ever said is that it is not the most successful approach for the majority.

 

[sirena rossa]

I did give Jillio the prior knowledge part. That's why I stated I had at least a 50/50 chance of getting it right. But, to get it right 10 out of 10 times (and especially without having to think about it -- "was that really "milk" or "could that really have been beer?" -- in each case it was CLEAR, no guesses) says something.

Anyway, as far as your post goes, getting into a conversation with a perfect stranger and being able to pick out words and letters is always new and can be difficult. I think none of us will dispute that. And, especially, if you have no prior knowledge or context to go with what you're about to lipread. I want to give just one more example, then I'm done with this subject because we've really veered off-topic here .. In my latest audiology test, I had to do a lip-reading test. Not sure why, as that was the first time I've done that. It was in the soundproof booth, no headphones, no hearing aids. I was given 20 words, I got 16 out of 20. I thought that was a great score, and is probably more than the norm. Because trying to lipread single words with no context is very difficult, I DID have to think for a few seconds, of some words, of what I'd just lipread before I could comprehend it into a word. But, still, getting 16 shows me that I was able to pick up different tongue and lip movements that I think hearing people don't realize that we do pick up. Even the audiologist was quite impressed. Now that I think of it, that works out to 80%, which is NOT the norm.

Alleycat, that is awesome, 16/20. I have had that type of test done to me too. and it was an audiologist who I never talked to before, and i got A LOT of them correct. its true, u do kinda have to think for a few seconds. but hearing people do that too. if person A walked into a room saying something totally random, there's a very good chance that person B is gonna reply with "what did u say?" Or even if person A & B are in the same room already and A still says something totally unexpected or out of context. person B may react with "huh, what?" they may THINK they know what was said, but not know for sure.

 

[Bottesini]

wow, awesome. kudos on getting the PhD! Are u getting a PhD in speech therapy?
as for my connection - i am profoundly deaf with 85-90 dB loss in both ears (w/ two hearing aids) and am 100% oral. (although i did take an ASL class in college, it was fun) I was mainstreamed and did speech therapy for 12 years starting at age 1. So I am basically proof that teaching only speech and being predominately oral IS possible and CAN work successfully.

Hi, I am about identical to you in background.

I am not as successful as you..

So that must be proof it does not work. (By your reasoning.)

 

[web730]

wow, awesome. kudos on getting the PhD! Are u getting a PhD in speech therapy?
as for my connection - i am profoundly deaf with 85-90 dB loss in both ears (w/ two hearing aids) and am 100% oral. (although i did take an ASL class in college, it was fun) I was mainstreamed and did speech therapy for 12 years starting at age 1. So I am basically proof that teaching only speech and being predominately oral IS possible and CAN work successfully.

I'm profoundly deaf (almost same as your 87-93 db loss in my both ears) yet I attended deaf school and college. Learned ASL little late yet I made out pretty good. Never wanted to learn to speech cuz I'm too spoiled with the ASL.

 

[jillio]

Hi, I am about identical to you in background.

I am not as successful as you..

So that must be proof it does not work. (By your reasoning.)

There you go! Bott has proved it!

 

[Bottesini]

There you go! Bott has proved it!

Thank you. I will expect you to send me the debate prize! I will probably get it at the same time I get the chocolate from Chevy57 for winning his sign language test.

 

[Daredevel7]

I'm profoundly deaf (almost same as your 87-93 db loss in my both ears) yet I attended deaf school and college. Learned ASL little late yet I made out pretty good. Never wanted to learn to speech cuz I'm too spoiled with the ASL.

This is quite interesting...... is this a typical response of someone who tries to do BiBi?

 

[jillio]

Thank you. I will expect you to send me the debate prize! I will probably get it at the same time I get the chocolate from Chevy57 for winning his sign language test.

I don't think I'd cancel any important plans to wait for the mail if I were you.

 

[sirena rossa]

Hi, I am about identical to you in background.

I am not as successful as you..

So that must be proof it does not work. (By your reasoning.)

Hiya Bottesini, same hearing loss? do u wear HA's too?

but i actually AM proof that it DOES work AT TIMES.

I guess the bottom line is that not everyone is the same. What is right for one person isn't for the other. And what it comes down to is that a deaf child should never be denied the possibility of learning to speak nor should s/he be denied the chance to learn ASL. I dont think ASL should be banned either, however i am against using ASL as a primary method. I think it should be BiBi at the very least.