Should a pedophile be granted parental visits?

Beowulf said:
The parents each got a court-appointed attorney. Lot of good they did.
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I don't have a lot of faith in court appointed attorneys. The very name implies favortism toward the court, and not the client. I usually recommend legal services for clients that need, but cannot afford an attorney. Some very good defense attorneys do pro-bono through them.
 
jillio said:
Re: what therapy can and cannot do...I am afraid that your assumption is incorrect.

Re: what parents should and should not tell a child and whether the child is old enough to understand: parents should always make sure that anything they tell a child is age appropriate. That goes for any information, not just sexual abuse. And it is also why professionals are used in these situations. Parents often don't know what is appropriate or how to deliver the information in a way that does not create additional harm to the child.

Re: it would sicken me: you are projecting your feelings onto the child. That is what most parents do, and that is a huge mistake. It creates more emotional problems for the child.
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(I posted)...

Isn't it hard enough for a parent to tell their child..."your father raped another child....he's in prison"...whenever the child asks "where's Dad?"...maybe the child is too young to understand exactly what the father has actually done...still, it would "sicken me" to have to let my child visit the man.

Let the man serve his time....and whenever he is "somewhat rehabiliated" by the system, or has been "cured"....IF there is a cure..and the child has reached the age to fully understand what the father has done......and the child wants to see the father....then that should be up to the child.


......A child, even at age 5...if you took that child to a prison to see their Dad...behind a glass wall and having to use a phone....what's ur explanation to tell the child "why his/her father has to talk to them this way?"...isn't the "Dad" only thinking about himself?...Not the child, or the trauma he has caused?

No, I would not tell a child at age 5 what his father had done....but word of mouth gets around. The child is going to hear things regardless, and ask questions over and over. The neighbors know about it and forbid their children from playing with them, (even tho' it's not the child's fault)...it's all over the news and at their school....In a lot of cases, the parent moves away, leaving the child more confused as to what is going on...their Dad left...their friends are not allowed to play with them....many other things can be the result of what their "Dad did"...

So, the "real core" of it all is "what Dad did".....and personally, I would not let a child at age 5 or even 16, visit inside of a prison.
 
I find it kinda odd that people are talking about how horrible/hard it is to tell your child that his dad raped another child. Wouldn't it be hard NOT telling him, too? "Where is daddy?" "Um.... uhh.. he went on a long vacation, honey."

It's a bad situation no matter what you tell the child.
 
rockin'robin said:
(I posted)...

Isn't it hard enough for a parent to tell their child..."your father raped another child....he's in prison"...whenever the child asks "where's Dad?"...maybe the child is too young to understand exactly what the father has actually done...still, it would "sicken me" to have to let my child visit the man.

Let the man serve his time....and whenever he is "somewhat rehabiliated" by the system, or has been "cured"....IF there is a cure..and the child has reached the age to fully understand what the father has done......and the child wants to see the father....then that should be up to the child.


......A child, even at age 5...if you took that child to a prison to see their Dad...behind a glass wall and having to use a phone....what's ur explanation to tell the child "why his/her father has to talk to them this way?"...isn't the "Dad" only thinking about himself?...Not the child, or the trauma he has caused?

No, I would not tell a child at age 5 what his father had done....but word of mouth gets around. The child is going to hear things regardless, and ask questions over and over. The neighbors know about it and forbid their children from playing with them, (even tho' it's not the child's fault)...it's all over the news and at their school....In a lot of cases, the parent moves away, leaving the child more confused as to what is going on...their Dad left...their friends are not allowed to play with them....many other things can be the result of what their "Dad did"...

So, the "real core" of it all is "what Dad did".....and personally, I would not let a child at age 5 or even 16, visit inside of a prison.
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Soooo...you think people aren't going to talk whether the child has visitation or not?

Neighbors who forbid their children from playing with other children based on what a parent has done and is already incarcerated for need their own therapy.

That is your choice, unless of course a court orders that the child be allowed to visit the incarcerated parent.

Keep in mind, a child knows that a parent is a part of them. To take the attitude that "your dad is a no good pervert and you cannot ever talk to or visit him" also communicates to the child that half of him is also "a no good pervert." How much harm does that do to a child?
 
Daredevel7 said:
I find it kinda odd that people are talking about how horrible/hard it is to tell your child that his dad raped another child. Wouldn't it be hard NOT telling him, too? "Where is daddy?" "Um.... uhh.. he went on a long vacation, honey."

It's a bad situation no matter what you tell the child.
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I agree.. It is bad due to the child will later say you lied to me or you hid this from me. etc. It is unhealthy no matter how you look at it. Sadly the children of criminals of all kinds are the ones that suffers the most.
 
Neighbors who forbid their children from playing with other children based on what a parent has done and is already incarcerated for need their own therapy.
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I will not elaborate...... but this is what my children were in counsiling for.....when my ex went to prison.
 
jillio said:
Keep in mind, a child knows that a parent is a part of them. To take the attitude that "your dad is a no good pervert and you cannot ever talk to or visit him" also communicates to the child that half of him is also "a no good pervert." How much harm does that do to a child?
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You said it so well.
 
Babyblue said:
I will not elaborate...... but this is what my children were in counsiling for.....when my ex went to prison.
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And you made the right move. You allowed them to process it with an unbiased third party that could help them come to terms with it in the healthiest manner possible. You understood that you were not the one that could do that, because your emotions were too involved.
 
netrox said:
You said it so well.
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:ty:

This is one of the reasons that family violence is transmitted from generation to generation. We make kids feel like they are genetically destined. We never get them the help they need to understand what the behavior is all about, and show them that not only do they not have to folllow that path, their parent can also learn to break those behavior patterns.
 
jillio said:
Soooo...you think people aren't going to talk whether the child has visitation or not?

Neighbors who forbid their children from playing with other children based on what a parent has done and is already incarcerated for need their own therapy.

That is your choice, unless of course a court orders that the child be allowed to visit the incarcerated parent.

Keep in mind, a child knows that a parent is a part of them. To take the attitude that "your dad is a no good pervert and you cannot ever talk to or visit him" also communicates to the child that half of him is also "a no good pervert." How much harm does that do to a child?
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(I quoted)...

Let the man serve his time....and whenever he is "somewhat rehabiliated" by the system, or has been "cured"....IF there is a cure..and the child has reached the age to fully understand what the father has done......and the child wants to see the father....then that should be up to the child.


.......When the child has reached the age to fully understand what "his Dad" did...then the child has formed his own opinion....give the child some credit for that!...whether the child feels/thinks that his Dad is a "pervert"..."a child molester"..."a rapist"....or "good ol' Dad."

Whenever his friends ask.."Why isn't ur Dad around?"...Is the kid gonna say...with his head hung low..."he's in prison for raping a child"....or is he gonna say.."My Dad's a pervert"!....The anger is gonna come out of that child!....And it all boils down to "what Dad did"!

All in all, "Dad" has done a lot of damage...not only to his own children but to other children as well...a Child Rapist is one of the most horrific crimes anyone can commit...even be "labeled as"....That's why other prisoners in prison "take good care of them"....and make them "suffer as the child they raped did"!

Whatever the Court decides to do... will be the law....but again, if it were my child...I would take him/her and run.
 
rockin'robin said:
(I quoted)...

Let the man serve his time....and whenever he is "somewhat rehabiliated" by the system, or has been "cured"....IF there is a cure..and the child has reached the age to fully understand what the father has done......and the child wants to see the father....then that should be up to the child.


.......When the child has reached the age to fully understand what "his Dad" did...then the child has formed his own opinion....give the child some credit for that!...whether the child feels/thinks that his Dad is a "pervert"..."a child molester"..."a rapist"....or "good ol' Dad."

Whenever his friends ask.."Why isn't ur Dad around?"...Is the kid gonna say...with his head hung low..."he's in prison for raping a child"....or is he gonna say.."My Dad's a pervert"!....The anger is gonna come out of that child!....And it all boils down to "what Dad did"!

All in all, "Dad" has done a lot of damage...not only to his own children but to other children as well...a Child Rapist is one of the most horrific crimes anyone can commit...even be "labeled as"....That's why other prisoners in prison "take good care of them"....and make them "suffer as the child they raped did"!

Whatever the Court decides to do... will be the law....but again, if it were my child...I would take him/her and run.
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What age is that for the child to "fully understand" the situation? Who makes that determination? You? That would not be objective because you are enmeshed in the situation.

And on the run...that means basically homeless. Or hiding and always, always, always looking over your shoulder.
 
rockin'robin said:
(I quoted)...

Let the man serve his time....and whenever he is "somewhat rehabiliated" by the system, or has been "cured"....IF there is a cure..and the child has reached the age to fully understand what the father has done......and the child wants to see the father....then that should be up to the child.

And, what if the child wants to see the parent in supervised visitation before they reach whatever vague age it is that you think they would fully understand? I know adults who do not fully understand what a parent did or why they did it. Understanding that is not a factor in whether that child loves that parent and wants to have a relationship with them.

.......When the child has reached the age to fully understand what "his Dad" did...then the child has formed his own opinion....give the child some credit for that!...whether the child feels/thinks that his Dad is a "pervert"..."a child molester"..."a rapist"....or "good ol' Dad."

The child will only judge his father a pervert when someone, ususally the other parent, teaches him to do so.
Whenever his friends ask.."Why isn't ur Dad around?"...Is the kid gonna say...with his head hung low..."he's in prison for raping a child"....or is he gonna say.."My Dad's a pervert"!....The anger is gonna come out of that child!....And it all boils down to "what Dad did"!

Chances are the child will not give any of those answers.

All in all, "Dad" has done a lot of damage...not only to his own children but to other children as well...a Child Rapist is one of the most horrific crimes anyone can commit...even be "labeled as"....That's why other prisoners in prison "take good care of them"....and make them "suffer as the child they raped did"!

We are talking about pedophiles, not child rapists.

Whatever the Court decides to do... will be the law....but again, if it were my child...I would take him/her and run.
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So, you would show your child that it is perfectly acceptable to break the law just because you believe it is right. You are giving them the same message the incarcerated parent gave them. Not to mention the other harm done to them while you are avoiding being arrested.
 
jillio said:
So, you would show your child that it is perfectly acceptable to break the law just because you believe it is right. You are giving them the same message the incarcerated parent gave them. Not to mention the other harm done to them while you are avoiding being arrested.
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....So now we get down to "therapy"...so "Dad" needs therapy in prison...the "child" that he raped also needs therapy (along with the family, because some parents "blame themselves" for whatever happens to their child)...."Dad's child " needs therapy too!...So does his wife and family....and whoever/whatever child he's also molested/raped.....

So...all these people need "THERAPY"!...And some people are not rich enuf to pay for it...so it falls upon the taxpayer....and it's well-known, that Therapy does not always work or even help!...And some Therapists are "quacks" too!

So, it all falls back on "Dad".....what a chain-reaction!....He not only took away the innocence of a child...he actually destroyed that child....along with his own family...and now "the poor man" wants to see his son!....Ahhhh. who feels "so sorry" for that man??....I, for one, DO NOT....I feel sorry for the children he has damaged!...(and I believe the story quoted he molested/raped 3 of them.

And everyone knows....the Court System is not always fair or even right!....Parents involve their children (at least I do) in making certain decisions....but the bottom-line, is the Parent who makes a decision Final.....We also, as Parents, have a right to appeal a court-ordered decision....and if we feel that visitation would do more harm than good for our child.....Unfortunately, some times the Court will overrule....and there has been instances where a Parent would "hide" their child before letting the other Parent have visitation rights, due to the fact of being a child predator/rapist/molester/pedropile, etc.

(From the original thread)...

"A youngster at the age of 5 is clearly not in the position to make an informed decision of that nature and will rely on a responsible adult around her to help with structuring that." said Dr. Rudy Nydegger, Clinical Psychologist.

It's a judge that will make that final decision. Saratoga County Family Court and the Appellate Division of the state Supreme Court ruled that the visits should be allowed. Culver's ex-wife is appealing that decision to the Court of Appeals.
 
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rockin'robin said:
....So now we get down to "therapy"...so "Dad" needs therapy in prison...the "child" that he raped also needs therapy (along with the family, because some parents "blame themselves" for whatever happens to their child)...."Dad's child " needs therapy too!...So does his wife and family....and whoever/whatever child he's also molested/raped.....

So...all these people need "THERAPY"!...And some people are not rich enuf to pay for it...so it falls upon the taxpayer....and it's well-known, that Therapy does not always work or even help!...And some Therapists are "quacks" too!

So, it all falls back on "Dad".....what a chain-reaction!....He not only took away the innocence of a child...he actually destroyed that child....along with his own family...and now "the poor man" wants to see his son!....Ahhhh. who feels "so sorry" for that man??....I, for one, DO NOT....I feel sorry for the children he has damaged!...(and I believe the story quoted he molested/raped 3 of them.

And everyone knows....the Court System is not always fair or even right!....Parents involve their children (at least I do) in making certain decisions....but the bottom-line, is the Parent who makes a decision Final.....We also, as Parents, have a right to appeal a court-ordered decision....and if we feel that visitation would do more harm than good for our child.....Unfortunately, some times the Court will overrule....and there has been instances where a Parent would "hide" their child before letting the other Parent have visitation rights, due to the fact of being a child predator/rapist/molester/pedropile, etc.

(From the original thread)...

"A youngster at the age of 5 is clearly not in the position to make an informed decision of that nature and will rely on a responsible adult around her to help with structuring that." said Dr. Rudy Nydegger, Clinical Psychologist.

It's a judge that will make that final decision. Saratoga County Family Court and the Appellate Division of the state Supreme Court ruled that the visits should be allowed. Culver's ex-wife is appealing that decision to the Court of Appeals.
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Yeah, you're right. Let's just not do anything to try to help sick people and stop the circle of family violence and sexual assault. We'll just lock them all away for life and let their children and their victims do it to the next generation.

Key word: RESPONSIBLE adult.
 
jillio said:
Yeah, you're right. Let's just not do anything to try to help sick people and stop the circle of family violence and sexual assault. We'll just lock them all away for life and let their children and their victims do it to the next generation.

Key word: RESPONSIBLE adult.
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A responsible adult tries to make the right decisions for their child...

There are some good therapists and there are some bad ones, (I've met a few)....That's why a lot of children/adults are "overly medicated."....

I do agree with you about locking up sex offenders/child molesters/rapists for life, tho.....then maybe a lot of the "bad therapists" would be out of business...

Have you ever thought of getting any therapy for urself?
 
rockin'robin said:
A responsible adult tries to make the right decisions for their child....

Tries in this situation is not the issue. Doing what is best for the child on all fronts is the issue. A parent cannot take into consideration issues that they do not even know exist. Their focus is singular. Because of their emotional involvement. That is why the court does things like appoint a guardian ad litem for children in this situation.
There are some good therapists and there are some bad ones, (I've met a few)....That's why a lot of children/adults are "overly medicated."....
Therapists do not prescribe medication. And I would venture to say, the number of parents that push MDs to medicate their child because they do not want to exert the effort to instill behavioral limits contributes more to over medication of children.
I do agree with you about locking up sex offenders/child molesters/rapists for life, tho.....then maybe a lot of the "bad therapists" would be out of business...

I was being sarcastic.

Have you ever thought of getting any therapy for urself?
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Therapy for myself is part of my training. :cool2: Now I ask the same question of you.

And a responsible adult made the decision in this case after weighing all of the pros and cons. This man has the right to visitation with his child. As much as you hate it, that is the way it is. And anyone who cannot consider all of the issues prior to making a decision in these cases is decidedly irresponsible, no matter how many times they tell themselves they are doing it for the child.
 
jillio said:
Therapy for myself is part of my training. :cool2: Now I ask the same question of you.

And a responsible adult made the decision in this case after weighing all of the pros and cons. This man has the right to visitation with his child. As much as you hate it, that is the way it is. And anyone who cannot consider all of the issues prior to making a decision in these cases is decidedly irresponsible, no matter how many times they tell themselves they are doing it for the child.
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Good rebuttal!...Nice talking to ya, Jillio...think (?) this thread has run it's course...American Idol is on....gotta watch that!
 
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