Should a pedophile be granted parental visits?

[rockin'robin]

You know, some parents are seemingly overly-protective of their children. I am one of them....It's mandatory for my boys to call/email their where-abouts....I meet their friends' parents, I visit their homes and I've always told my boys...if there is any drinking/drugs or any "overly affectionate touches" to them....come home! Never to let an adult "touch them inappropately."

And I feel that once an adult has crossed the line by sexually abusing a child, then that line has been drawn.

Even years of therapy cannot erase the trauma of a child being raped, not only for the child, but the parent and family as well.

Sick or mentally ill...whatever it may be....people like this don't belong in a civilized society or even around any child...and even IF there is a "cure" for a child rapist...the damage has already been done.

Isn't it hard enough for a parent to tell their child..."your father raped another child....he's in prison"...whenever the child asks "where's Dad?"...maybe the child is too young to understand exactly what the father has actually done...still, it would "sicken me" to have to let my child visit the man.

Let the man serve his time....and whenever he is "somewhat rehabiliated" by the system, or has been "cured"....IF there is a cure..and the child has reached the age to fully understand what the father has done......and the child wants to see the father....then that should be up to the child.

 

[rolling7]

You know, some parents are seemingly overly-protective of their children. I am one of them....It's mandatory for my boys to call/email their where-abouts....I meet their friends' parents, I visit their homes and I've always told my boys...if there is any drinking/drugs or any "overly affectionate touches" to them....come home! Never to let an adult "touch them inappropately."

And I feel that once an adult has crossed the line by sexually abusing a child, then that line has been drawn.

Even years of therapy cannot erase the trauma of a child being raped, not only for the child, but the parent and family as well.

Sick or mentally ill...whatever it may be....people like this don't belong in a civilized society or even around any child...and even IF there is a "cure" for a child rapist...the damage has already been done.

Isn't it hard enough for a parent to tell their child..."your father raped another child....he's in prison"...whenever the child asks "where's Dad?"...maybe the child is too young to understand exactly what the father has actually done...still, it would "sicken me" to have to let my child visit the man.

Let the man serve his time....and whenever he is "somewhat rehabiliated" by the system, or has been "cured"....IF there is a cure..and the child has reached the age to fully understand what the father has done......and the child wants to see the father....then that should be up to the child.

You have a wonderful head on your shoulders. All mothers should look to you.

 

[Beowulf]

You know, some parents are seemingly overly-protective of their children. I am one of them....It's mandatory for my boys to call/email their where-abouts....I meet their friends' parents, I visit their homes and I've always told my boys...if there is any drinking/drugs or any "overly affectionate touches" to them....come home! Never to let an adult "touch them inappropately."

And I feel that once an adult has crossed the line by sexually abusing a child, then that line has been drawn.

Even years of therapy cannot erase the trauma of a child being raped, not only for the child, but the parent and family as well.

Sick or mentally ill...whatever it may be....people like this don't belong in a civilized society or even around any child...and even IF there is a "cure" for a child rapist...the damage has already been done.

Isn't it hard enough for a parent to tell their child..."your father raped another child....he's in prison"...whenever the child asks "where's Dad?"...maybe the child is too young to understand exactly what the father has actually done...still, it would "sicken me" to have to let my child visit the man.

Let the man serve his time....and whenever he is "somewhat rehabiliated" by the system, or has been "cured"....IF there is a cure..and the child has reached the age to fully understand what the father has done......and the child wants to see the father....then that should be up to the child.

I understand your feelings, really I do. I will go off-topic a bit here, but several years ago I was friends with a deaf couple who had their child taken away (because of "living arrangements") and they were forced to go through therapy, parenting classes, etc. and I drove them there. I went with them to their supervised visits and never once did I see any problems with the child, a 4 year old female. She was with a temporary foster family during this time, mind you. I went to court with the deaf couple and they got RAILROADED: the testimony of the social worker who had just a few months on the job testified that in her opinion, the child "bonded better" with the foster family than with her parents, and she spent only 20 minutes observing the child with the parents. She also said that the child told her therapist that the parents "sent to to bed without supper, made her sleep in the car with them," all of which I know to be utterly false. Unfortunately her testimony carried great weight with the judge and the parents had their parental rights terminated. They were shocked and heartbroken and I was amazed at the unfairness of it all. The child was obviously brainwashed by the foster family. Just saying.

 

[rockin'robin]

I understand your feelings, really I do. I will go off-topic a bit here, but several years ago I was friends with a deaf couple who had their child taken away (because of "living arrangements") and they were forced to go through therapy, parenting classes, etc. and I drove them there. I went with them to their supervised visits and never once did I see any problems with the child, a 4 year old female. She was with a temporary foster family during this time, mind you. I went to court with the deaf couple and they got RAILROADED: the testimony of the social worker who had just a few months on the job testified that in her opinion, the child "bonded better" with the foster family than with her parents, and she spent only 20 minutes observing the child with the parents. She also said that the child told her therapist that the parents "sent to to bed without supper, made her sleep in the car with them," all of which I know to be utterly false. Unfortunately her testimony carried great weight with the judge and the parents had their parental rights terminated. They were shocked and heartbroken and I was amazed at the unfairness of it all. The child was obviously brainwashed by the foster family. Just saying.

Yes, it's really sad!...It not only happens to deaf couples, it also happens to hearing couples....It happened within my family also...when the Social Worker said the child was being "neglected"....was taken away to a foster home...where in the foster home, the child was sexually abused....the child ran away, went back to her parents....and the system, once again, took the child back to a foster home....

I've personally had someone say to my son..."I feel sorry for you that your mother is hearing impaired"!....(several months ago!)....My son was "reluctant" to tell me about this...but he did and I'm proud of him....and I also took care of this matter with that lady...She has never, ever spoke to me or any of my boys since...I put her in her place!

Many people assume that since we are deaf we cannot raise children....when in fact....we care about our children and their welfare more than a lot of hearing people....

 

[Beowulf]

Yes, it's really sad!...It not only happens to deaf couples, it also happens to hearing couples....It happened within my family also...when the Social Worker said the child was being "neglected"....was taken away to a foster home...where in the foster home, the child was sexually abused....the child ran away, went back to her parents....and the system, once again, took the child back to a foster home....

I've personally had someone say to my son..."I feel sorry for you that your mother is hearing impaired"!....(several months ago!)....My son was "reluctant" to tell me about this...but he did and I'm proud of him....and I also took care of this matter with that lady...She has never, ever spoke to me or any of my boys since...I put her in her place!

Many people assume that since we are deaf we cannot raise children....when in fact....we care about our children and their welfare more than a lot of hearing people....

I'm glad you get it. About ten years ago I visited a treatment center, and the counselor asked the in-house patients at a meeting how many had their children taken from them. Three people raised their hands. And yep, they were deaf.

 

[jillio]

Your post is nothing more than a power play to make all think you are the only one who knows anything. You used the word "never" , not me or anyone else. So now it becomes up to you to post a compete record of all sections of dialogue between the child and the professional. You are also required to provide the court dialogue with all the parties present in court. Of particular interest is what you read as far as the respond the child gave to each question ask of the child.
Don't you dare deflect with a come-back of "what you are asking for is impossible to provide". Again, you used the word "never". You have to prove your word.
My best bet is you have NEVER sat in on one of these judicial proceedings. If you have, supply us word-for-word the full dialogue of the proceeding.

Those records are confidential information. And if they were made available to you, you would not be able to interpret the dialogue properly anyway.

This is just another indication of your choice to remain ignorant, which leads me to believe that you have a personal issue that is guiding your reactions that you seriously need to deal with.

I have sat in on many of these judicial proceedings. I have nothing to prove to you. I know what I know, and I also know what you don't know.

You stated that you were going to read every reference provided. Obviously you have not done so. You choose to remain ignorant of the facts. Nothing more to be said.

 

[jillio]

Since when do children make adult decisions and understand all the implications involved better than adults who have years of training, experience, and knowledge to guide their decisions?

Since never.

Children are certainly involved in such a decision-making process, but they don't have the final say-so. I fail to see how any child anywhere could have the ability to make an appropriate final decision in that situation. He or she should have input, but there are many factors way beyond the compreension of a young mind.

Exactly. They are children. :roll: If they were capable of considering all of the variables involved in a decision such as this, they would be professional adults.

 

[jillio]

Thanks for once again proving my point. The child has the least say-so but the most to lose.

Your point has not been proven. Not even by you.

 

[jillio]

You know, some parents are seemingly overly-protective of their children. I am one of them....It's mandatory for my boys to call/email their where-abouts....I meet their friends' parents, I visit their homes and I've always told my boys...if there is any drinking/drugs or any "overly affectionate touches" to them....come home! Never to let an adult "touch them inappropately."

And I feel that once an adult has crossed the line by sexually abusing a child, then that line has been drawn.

Even years of therapy cannot erase the trauma of a child being raped, not only for the child, but the parent and family as well.

Sick or mentally ill...whatever it may be....people like this don't belong in a civilized society or even around any child...and even IF there is a "cure" for a child rapist...the damage has already been done.

Isn't it hard enough for a parent to tell their child..."your father raped another child....he's in prison"...whenever the child asks "where's Dad?"...maybe the child is too young to understand exactly what the father has actually done...still, it would "sicken me" to have to let my child visit the man.

Let the man serve his time....and whenever he is "somewhat rehabiliated" by the system, or has been "cured"....IF there is a cure..and the child has reached the age to fully understand what the father has done......and the child wants to see the father....then that should be up to the child.

Re: what therapy can and cannot do...I am afraid that your assumption is incorrect.

Re: what parents should and should not tell a child and whether the child is old enough to understand: parents should always make sure that anything they tell a child is age appropriate. That goes for any information, not just sexual abuse. And it is also why professionals are used in these situations. Parents often don't know what is appropriate or how to deliver the information in a way that does not create additional harm to the child.

Re: it would sicken me: you are projecting your feelings onto the child. That is what most parents do, and that is a huge mistake. It creates more emotional problems for the child.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Re: it would sicken me: you are projecting your feelings onto the child. That is what most parents do, and that is a huge mistake. It creates more emotional problems for the child.

People do that to dogs too. It's funny because wolves are much more egalitarians and democratic than we are according to recent studies. I think a friend of mine called modern dog training: "drapetomania." Just because humans, like all primates, respond well to dominance theory, it doesn't means it work across the species barrier.

I know, awful hyperbole, but it does illustrate how we project our own view of the world onto others. I never really understood why parents think children rationalize emotions the same way a teenager or an adult would.

 

[jillio]

I understand your feelings, really I do. I will go off-topic a bit here, but several years ago I was friends with a deaf couple who had their child taken away (because of "living arrangements") and they were forced to go through therapy, parenting classes, etc. and I drove them there. I went with them to their supervised visits and never once did I see any problems with the child, a 4 year old female. She was with a temporary foster family during this time, mind you. I went to court with the deaf couple and they got RAILROADED: the testimony of the social worker who had just a few months on the job testified that in her opinion, the child "bonded better" with the foster family than with her parents, and she spent only 20 minutes observing the child with the parents. She also said that the child told her therapist that the parents "sent to to bed without supper, made her sleep in the car with them," all of which I know to be utterly false. Unfortunately her testimony carried great weight with the judge and the parents had their parental rights terminated. They were shocked and heartbroken and I was amazed at the unfairness of it all. The child was obviously brainwashed by the foster family. Just saying.

This is a case that was obviously mishandled. While things like this do occur, I am happy to say that it is not the norm.

First of all, the social worker should never have been testifying about what the child told the therapist. That is wrong, wrong, wrong. Only the therapist should have been testifying regarding anything that was exchanged in session, and that should have been in a written report that not only indicated what was said, but the therapist's own interpretation of such. A detailed psychological report should have been submitted not just by one therapist, but by one for both sides.

The judge in this case was also in the wrong for even allowing testimony of that nature. This couple's rights and this child's rights appear to have been seriously violated.

If you don't mind me asking, how long ago did this occur?

 

[jillio]

Yes, it's really sad!...It not only happens to deaf couples, it also happens to hearing couples....It happened within my family also...when the Social Worker said the child was being "neglected"....was taken away to a foster home...where in the foster home, the child was sexually abused....the child ran away, went back to her parents....and the system, once again, took the child back to a foster home....

I've personally had someone say to my son..."I feel sorry for you that your mother is hearing impaired"!....(several months ago!)....My son was "reluctant" to tell me about this...but he did and I'm proud of him....and I also took care of this matter with that lady...She has never, ever spoke to me or any of my boys since...I put her in her place!

Many people assume that since we are deaf we cannot raise children....when in fact....we care about our children and their welfare more than a lot of hearing people....

I understand your feelings. But isn't it just possible that you are projecting your negative reactions onto everything across the board?

 

[deafskeptic]

I understand your feelings, really I do. I will go off-topic a bit here, but several years ago I was friends with a deaf couple who had their child taken away (because of "living arrangements") and they were forced to go through therapy, parenting classes, etc. and I drove them there. I went with them to their supervised visits and never once did I see any problems with the child, a 4 year old female. She was with a temporary foster family during this time, mind you. I went to court with the deaf couple and they got RAILROADED: the testimony of the social worker who had just a few months on the job testified that in her opinion, the child "bonded better" with the foster family than with her parents, and she spent only 20 minutes observing the child with the parents. She also said that the child told her therapist that the parents "sent to to bed without supper, made her sleep in the car with them," all of which I know to be utterly false. Unfortunately her testimony carried great weight with the judge and the parents had their parental rights terminated. They were shocked and heartbroken and I was amazed at the unfairness of it all. The child was obviously brainwashed by the foster family. Just saying.

I find it outrageous that this happened.

 

[jillio]

I find it outrageous that this happened.

As do I.

 

[Beowulf]

This is a case that was obviously mishandled. While things like this do occur, I am happy to say that it is not the norm.

First of all, the social worker should never have been testifying about what the child told the therapist. That is wrong, wrong, wrong. Only the therapist should have been testifying regarding anything that was exchanged in session, and that should have been in a written report that not only indicated what was said, but the therapist's own interpretation of such. A detailed psychological report should have been submitted not just by one therapist, but by one for both sides.

The judge in this case was also in the wrong for even allowing testimony of that nature. This couple's rights and this child's rights appear to have been seriously violated.

If you don't mind me asking, how long ago did this occur?

It was at least ten years ago while I was living in Kansas City. It is hard to believe, but it happened the way I described. At least, I could swear to it on my sainted grandmother's grave.

 

[jillio]

It was at least ten years ago while I was living in Kansas City. It is hard to believe, but it happened the way I described. At least, I could swear to it on my sainted grandmother's grave.

Oh, I don't doubt you for a minute. And it doesn't help to say that procedures have changed in the last 10 years, I know. This was an injustice that should never have occurred.

 

[rolling7]

Beoulf..........you said the couple got RAILROADED and you explain why to thought that. I can totally respect your independent observation, because you were there. I won't go into the "how"of my knowing, without being there but using your own post, that the child was telling the truth. Nevertheless, you make a good point.........RAILROAD.....WHICH EVEN YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT IT POSSIBLE THE CHILD IS THE ONE RAILROADED, of course this happens.Did you know there are many mothers (and a few fathers) who have taken their child and gone into the Overground Railroad because they feel the system RAILROAD the child?

 

[Beowulf]

Beoulf..........you said the couple got RAILROADED and you explain why to thought that. I can totally respect your independent observation, because you were there. I won't go into the "how"of my knowing, without being there but using your own post, that the child was telling the truth. Nevertheless, you make a good point.........RAILROAD.....WHICH EVEN YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT IT POSSIBLE THE CHILD IS THE ONE RAILROADED, of course this happens.Did you know there are many mothers (and a few fathers) who have taken their child and gone into the Overground Railroad because they feel the system RAILROAD the child?

Yeah, the child got railroaded as well. I lost faith in the justice system because of this. I was there at the parent's final meeting with the child, and let me tell you, I never felt worse in my life. I hope jillio is correct that the system has changed, I just hope...

 

[jillio]

Yeah, the child got railroaded as well. I lost faith in the justice system because of this. I was there at the parent's final meeting with the child, and let me tell you, I never felt worse in my life. I hope jillio is correct that the system has changed, I just hope...

Did the parents and the child have attorneys?

And yes, the system has changed. That is not to say, however, that there is not still work to be done. Nothing involving humans is infallable. Nor will it ever be.

 

[jillio]

Beoulf..........you said the couple got RAILROADED and you explain why to thought that. I can totally respect your independent observation, because you were there. I won't go into the "how"of my knowing, without being there but using your own post, that the child was telling the truth. Nevertheless, you make a good point.........RAILROAD.....WHICH EVEN YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT IT POSSIBLE THE CHILD IS THE ONE RAILROADED, of course this happens.Did you know there are many mothers (and a few fathers) who have taken their child and gone into the Overground Railroad because they feel the system RAILROAD the child?

Are you referring to parents who kidnap a child from a custodial parent and go into hiding?

Yeah, there's a healthy way to raise a child.:roll: