Shooting in area of Empire State Building, with casualties

Ballistics should be able to straighten it out.

yep. the capacity of shooter's gun is only 8 and I think he most likely fired his gun only 2-3x.

I guess we'll see what the investigation will unravel but it's certainly going to be a very expensive headache for NYC and NYPD since some victims were definitely accidentally shot by cops. it's also going to be a worrisome headache for cops too as they will be most likely reassigned or suspended pending investigation.
 
How is this possible? Isn't that a gun free zone? Time to pass more restrictive gun laws .... (sarcasm)

I know ... why don't we make murder illegal ... oh .... wait ...

He obviously used a large sawed off automatic military assault machine shotgun ....
 
Surveillance video of the shooting ((((((((GRAPHIC CONTENT)))))))))))


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYWgrHwrlf8]Surveillance New York City Shooting Near Empire State Building - YouTube[/ame]
 
and......?

in case you forgot, we don't live in England and the reason why this country was not under Queen Elizabeth's rule is because we defeated your redcoats with guns :)

UK didn't ban on guns until 1997, even I don't think they do have constitution protection for armed citizens like Second Amendment style.
 
How is this possible? Isn't that a gun free zone? Time to pass more restrictive gun laws .... (sarcasm)

I know ... why don't we make murder illegal ... oh .... wait ...

He obviously used a large sawed off automatic military assault machine shotgun ....

Murder is already illegal under criminal law so if you murder in NY so you will spend rest of your life in prison.

I learned from Reba's hubby about automatic weapons are illegal, unless you have military license or C.
 
but if you did win, America would be similar to England and cops would be wearing funny hat and carrying baton n' whistle.


right I know. this tragedy happened in NYC and gun ban did not work.


yes. I remember that tragedy where a young man was running to subway and cops yelled - stop stop stop but he didn't so the cop shot him because they thought he was a suicide bomber.


very simple - people will go to jail if they shot recklessly. The cops can go to jail if the investigation shows that the cops were negligent.


no. it's not that we "think" it's our rights to own guns. It's part of Constitution because we citizens have the rights to bear arms to fight against tyranny and enemies. Look at Switzerland.

You, on the other hand, chose to surrender your ability to defend yourself and that's why your country has police and government to spy on you, monitor everything, and restrict anything however they want. That's not freedom to me.

In bold - or USA will be similar to Canada with American style law and different from UK.
 
Gun Used by Shooter Is Known for Its Deadly Power
The pistol used by a disgruntled designer to kill a former co-worker outside the Empire State Building on Friday is among the more lethal handguns on the American firearms market.

Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said the shooter, Jeffrey T. Johnson, 58, used a .45-caliber semiautomatic pistol that held eight rounds. Law enforcement officials said Mr. Johnson bought the pistol in Sarasota, Fla., in 1991. Mr. Kelly later identified the gun’s manufacturer as Star, a Spanish company that is no longer in business. Mr. Johnson did not have a concealed-carry or residential permit in New York, so his possession of the weapon was illegal in New York City, according to city officials.

The .45-caliber semiautomatic was the standard sidearm for the American armed forces for much of the 20th century. The semiautomatic feature means that the gun reloads automatically after the trigger is pulled and a round is fired; it fires larger rounds than most handguns, making it difficult to handle, but powerful.

“If you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re probably not going to be able to hit the broad side of a barn with it,” said Joseph F. King, a former United States Customs Service special agent. But, he added, “If you can put a round in center mass of the body, or the head, he’s probably not going to make it.” The firearm, powerful as it may be, is not the subject of much of the debate about gun control.

“I can’t think of a current gun law that would have banned the weapon that was used in this shooting,” said Daniel Webster, a director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.

Elected officials who have been pushing new gun laws pointed to the shooting on Friday as another reason that the issue of gun violence deserved more attention from policy makers. “We are not immune to the national problem of gun violence,” Mr. Bloomberg said, adding, “Once again, there’s an awful lot of guns out there.”

I'm not understanding any single thing in this article. Any gun is deadly. I'm bothered by how NY Times constructed the title of the article, framing it to frighten people to support gun ban laws. I hope they'll realize that it's the NYPD officers who wildly shot all over like a newbie cowboy.

I'm much more worried about regular street police officers with bare minimum training carrying 9mm gun that holds 16+ bullets than law-abiding citizen with .45 gun that holds 8 bullets.
 
"Johnson did not have a concealed-carry or residential permit in New York, so his possession of the weapon was illegal in New York City, according to city officials."

Exactly my point.

Banning guns won't stop the bad guys from using them.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/n...on-to-shoot-in-midtown-left-9-wounded.html?hp
As the two officers confronted a gunman in front of the Empire State Building on a busy Friday morning, they had to make a snap decision: Do they open fire in the middle of Midtown?

From a distance of less than 10 feet, the officers, Craig Matthews and Robert Sinishtaj, answered in unison; one shot nine times and the other seven.

Investigators believe at least 7 of those 16 bullets struck the gunman, said Paul J. Browne, the Police Department’s chief spokesman. But the officers also struck some, if not all, of the nine bystanders who were wounded.

This was the second time in two weeks that the police were involved in a fatal shooting in Midtown; on Aug. 11, two officers fired 12 shots at a knife-wielding man after he escaped arrest in Times Square.

The Patrol Guide prohibits officers from firing their weapons if, “in their professional judgment, doing so will unnecessarily endanger innocent persons.”

Mr. Browne said that in Friday’s shooting, the two officers had taken account of their surroundings before firing, as they are trained to do. Video surveillance footage, Mr. Browne said, shows that most of the wounded bystanders were closer to the Empire State Building, while the shooter was near the curb.

One of those wounded said he was standing behind the gunman when the police opened fire.

“One of the cops shot me in my arm,” a 23-year-old man, Robert Asika, said outside Bellevue Hospital Center. He said that the gunman was moving toward him, and suggested that the officers “shot me probably trying to shoot him.”

Mr. Asika said he could not “really get mad at the cops.”

“I get they were doing their job, but they have to be a little more careful when they are aiming the gun at the suspect and not hit the innocent victims,” he said. Video released by the Police Department shows no one close to the gunman.

The two officers were from the South Bronx, working a tour as part of the Police Department’s counterterrorism deployment at high-profile locations. The duty normally entails helping tourists and the like, and as New Yorkers trickled into work shortly after 9 a.m., this day seemed no different. In the crowd that streamed past was a man dressed in a suit and tie and carrying a black bag, going by the officers calmly and unhurriedly, Mr. Browne said.

“He wouldn’t have drawn anyone’s particular attention,” Mr. Browne said, if not for a construction worker who “pointed him out to these officers.” The worker said that the man had just shot someone around the corner.

The officers approached the gunman, whom the police identified as Jeffrey T. Johnson, and the situation quickly escalated.

Surveillance video shows Mr. Johnson walking north on Fifth Avenue, between the street and some curbside planters. The two officers gave chase, just as a family of four walked past Mr. Johnson in the other direction. The video showed him reaching into a bag, pulling out a .45-caliber pistol and pointing it at the officers.

The shooting was over in a matter of seconds.

A number of the bystanders may have been wounded by bullet fragments and ricochets after bullets struck nearby flowerpots, Mr. Browne said, suggesting that the bystanders were not in the path of the bullets when the officers fired.

Many of the wounds to bystanders were “mostly in the lower extremity areas, such as legs and ankles, which would be consistent with some of the ricochet fragmented ballistics we found,” Mr. Browne said.

He said there was no ballistic evidence that the gunman fired any rounds as the police confronted him, though the police were still investigating a report by one witness who said the gunman did fire at the police.

The officers have been removed from patrol duty — standard practice when one discharges a weapon, the police said.

Mr. Browne said officers were trained to take cover, if possible, when facing a gunman, but there was no opportunity to do so here.

“They were approaching this man with a gun, and he turns on them, and he is eight feet away, pointing a gun right at them,” he said.

It is not unheard-of for bystanders to be hit in police shootouts. A year ago, a woman sitting on her stoop was killed in a shootout in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, in which the police fired 73 shots at a gunman who had just fatally shot another man. The police have since conceded that a police bullet might have killed the woman but have said the ballistics leave some uncertainty.

And a decision by the state’s highest court in 2010 found that the police involved in a 2005 shooting in Harlem could not be found negligent for wounding two bystanders. The majority decision noted that the officers had not seen any of the bystanders in the area at the time of the shooting. However, a dissenting opinion in the case pointed out that some of the officers had given testimony suggesting that they had not looked.

Officer Matthews is well-known in the Police Department because he had filed a federal lawsuit alleging that in the 42nd Precinct, there was a strict quota system for arrests, summonses and street stops.
 
WOW that video was graphic, but to me it looks like the shooter was trying to get away. He killed the one person he intended to. In what I can see, it does not look like he was going to hurt any of the innocent bystanders. I guess we shall see, but if all these people were shot by the police who were suppose to be protecting them and were trained for that buzy area, all I can say is ??????????
 
Wow, that was done quickly within 15 seconds. They were too close to the shooter.

What do mean the cops where too close the shooter?? so should the cops had let the guy shoot them first because they where too close??
I think the shooter had a death wish . He had to known the cops where going to shot to kill.
 
To me, it appears the police officers attempted to apprehend him before the suspect drew his weapon. Perhaps so no shots would be fired at all ????

Then when the suspect drew his weapon, the police drew theirs and shot the guy DRT.

Now, CNN is reporting that 9 bystanders were wounded by the Police Officers. Their bullets ricocheted and caused fragments to wound 9 bystanders.
 
What do mean the cops where too close the shooter?? so should the cops had let the guy shoot them first because they where too close??
I mean that it looked like to me that the cops were still looking while they didn't know the shooter was that close. They started noticing him when he pointed the gun at them, not before.

I think the shooter had a death wish . He had to known the cops where going to shot to kill.
I think so, too.
 
I mean that it looked like to me that the cops were still looking while they didn't know the shooter was that close. They started noticing him when he pointed the gun at them, not before.

yep. that's why they look startled.
 
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