Self-Esteem vs low self-esteem

[Reba]

Christians and non-Christians are like oil and water. They separate naturally. They have different beliefs, interests and activities.


This is CHILLING......

Before I was saved I would go to a club on Saturday night, dance and drink, then sleep in on Sunday morning, and go to a movie on Sunday afternoon with other unsaved people.

After I was saved I would NOT go to a club on Saturday night, I would NOT drink, I would get up Sunday morning and go to church, and then later go to the evening service with other saved people.

Saved people are most comfortable with other saved people. We enjoy the same music, we can share our spiritual experiences with mockery, and we have similar viewpoints of the world. Christians usually marry other Christians.

Unsaved people are most comfortable with other unsaved people. They enjoy the same music, can share similar philosophies, and have similar viewpoints of the world. Non-Christians usually marry other non-Christians.

That is natural separation. People have different interests, viewpoints, goals, beliefs and activities. Naturally, people with similar beliefs, etc., prefer to hang out with each other.

don't forget that after all is done and said we are ALL the same human beings. Wheter we pray in the Church or Synagogue or Mecca, we share the same interest - religion. Whether we are Christians, Jews, Muslim we believe in the same- in some higher supreme being that is above us all.

We are all human beings but we do not all worship the same God.

That is why I loved John Paul II- he understood this very well. He made antisemitism and official sin, and all his life he strived to unite all of us not divide by our beliefs.

I hate to break it to you but anti-Semitism has always been a sin, long before John Paul II made it "official".

Most of the time it is the non-Christians who avoid the Christians.

Not neccessarily. I actually find that Christian's holier than thou attitude is what is a big put-off to others, non- Christians...

As I said, the non-Christians avoid the Christians. Non-Christians are often not comfortable around Christians for whatever reason.

 

[Maria]

Christians usually marry other Christians. Non-Christians usually marry other non-Christians.

Very true. I like to marry a Christian man who is already experienced God like me. It is goin' to be an awesome experience together.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Before I was saved I would go to a club on Saturday night, dance and drink, then sleep in on Sunday morning, and go to a movie on Sunday afternoon with other unsaved people.
After I was saved I would NOT go to a club on Saturday night, I would NOT drink, I would get up Sunday morning and go to church, and then later go to the evening service with other saved people.


If that's the only difference then excuse me Reba I am not impressed. You just exchanged one kind of activity for another. that's all.

(I think especcially going to the movies is horrible. All those sinners in there sheesh..)

We are all human beings but we do not all worship the same God.

That's what you don't get. There is ONE God.

I hate to break it to you but anti-Semitism has always been a sin, long before John Paul II made it "official".

Reba that's just what I said- he made it OFFICIAL. Christians did NOT respected this as they should, many still don't, and with making it OFFICIAL he at least made it crystal clear.

Well Reba do you think having "holier than thou" attitude is what Christians should convey to all others?
because all that divide "saved, unsaved" sure make me feel like I am something lesser, something unworthy, stupid, selfish, misguided. Tsk tsk tsk.. is that what Christianity is about? And can you imagine what it does to my self-esteem?
Up to now, I was under an impression that Christians are loving people who are waiting for any stray soul with an open arms.
Instead I am learning about "we have our this, our that, we are separate (better) human being because we have Jesus Christ and you don't..
I sure don't feel wanted nor needed, eh..



Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Cyber Red,
discussing with you was very interesting. Thank you for letting me into your private life.
I can see we disagree, but we here agree to disagree, right?

Once again I hope you'll find peace with your Mom and your little sister will too.

Fuzzy

 

[Cheri]

As I said, the non-Christians avoid the Christians. Non-Christians are often not comfortable around Christians for whatever reason.

Whatever reasons? Come on Reba, You know well enough why? Making them feel horrible about their sins they committed. And saying, You're going to hell. Just remember we are all sinners and will never satisfy God's perfect standards, For all have sinned, all fall short of God's glorious standard Romans 3:32 So, tell me why is it their place to judge us, when they are also sinners too? Why haven't we judge them? by saying they are going to hell. That's a horrible thing to hear coming from some Christians.

 

[Maria]

Cyber Red,
discussing with you was very interesting. Thank you for letting me into your private life.
I can see we disagree, but we here agree to disagree, right?

Once again I hope you'll find peace with your Mom and your little sister will too.

Fuzzy

Yeah it was. You are very much welcome.
I will pray for my mother and siblin' to find Jesus Christ in their heart before too late. Thank you.

 

[Reba]

If that's the only difference then excuse me Reba I am not impressed. You just exchanged one kind of activity for another. that's all.

Good grief, I'm not going to give my whole boring life story. I was just using a simple example to help you understand the concept of separation. I wasn't trying to impress you.

(I think especcially going to the movies is horrible. All those sinners in there sheesh..)

The point was that I go to church on Sunday mornings and evenings instead of other activities. My unsaved friends would prefer the other activities instead of attending church. That is why we went our separate ways.

That's what you don't get. There is ONE God.

I'm afraid YOU don't get it. Yes, there is only one God; but not all people worship Him.

Reba that's just what I said- he made it OFFICIAL. Christians did NOT respected this as they should, many still don't, and with making it OFFICIAL he at least made it crystal clear.

Why would anyone need an "official" declaration from someone before they realize that hating Jews is a sin? Also, papal declarations apply only to Catholics. God's declarations of sin apply to every one. I knew that hating Jews was a sin long before the Pope announced it.

Well Reba do you think having "holier than thou" attitude is what Christians should convey to all others?

No. Actually, the closer one is to the heart of God, the more unworthy one feels.

because all that divide "saved, unsaved" sure make me feel like I am something lesser, something unworthy, stupid, selfish, misguided.

There is no reason to feel that way. Any unsaved person can simply become saved. No one is excluded. Every one is welcome. Hubby and I invite unsaved people to church, activities, our house, etc., but it is their decision to accept or refuse the invitation. Why would you feel "unworthy, stupid, selfish, misguided"? Maybe your heart is under conviction by the Holy Spirit? Maybe you are struggling with the decision? I don't know; only you can answer that.

Tsk tsk tsk.. is that what Christianity is about? And can you imagine what it does to my self-esteem?

Christianity has nothing to do with self-esteem. Christianity means becoming a born-again believer in Jesus Christ, and following Him. Every person is valuable to Jesus, and that is better than any human self-esteem. The peace and security of Jesus is better than any self-esteem. Peace and security in Jesus is permanent and unchanging; self-esteem fluctuates.

Up to now, I was under an impression that Christians are loving people who are waiting for any stray soul with an open arms.

Yes, we Christians are not just waiting but also inviting every lost soul with our open arms.

Instead I am learning about "we have our this, our that, we are separate (better) human being because we have Jesus Christ and you don't..
I sure don't feel wanted nor needed, eh..

I never, never said that Christians are better people than non-Christians. ALL people are sinners, unworthy of the grace of God. But He is all-loving, all-forgiving, and offers us His grace despite our unworthiness. Jesus offers salvation to every human being on the planet. You are surely wanted and needed. You can have Jesus Christ too. No one is stopping or preventing you.

When a person accepts Jesus as Savior, that person's desires change. He/she doesn't want to party, drink, mess around, do drugs, watch dirty movies, go to strip clubs, whatever. Instead, he/she wants to attend church, fellowship with other believers, read the Bible, etc. What's wrong with that? What about other people whose desires change for other reasons? Do you condemn them also? Suppose a recovering alcoholic refuses to go into bars; do you condemn that? Suppose a single friend gets married and quits going to strip clubs; do you condemn that? Suppose a friend develops a health problem and quits smoking; do you condemn that? Suppose one of your friends matures and decides he doesn't enjoy spending all weekend playing video games; do you condemn that? Or do you only condemn Christians because their lives change thru Jesus, not thru other things?

 

[Reba]

Whatever reasons? Come on Reba, You know well enough why? Making them feel horrible about their sins they committed. And saying, You're going to hell. Just remember we are all sinners and will never satisfy God's perfect standards, For all have sinned, all fall short of God's glorious standard Romans 3:32 So, tell me why is it their place to judge us, when they are also sinners too? Why haven't we judge them? by saying they are going to hell. That's a horrible thing to hear coming from some Christians.

Yes, we are all sinners, and we all need the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Some people don't know that. There are some people who don't know, or don't accept the fact that they are sinners. They must understand that they are sinners before it is possible to be saved by Jesus. If they accept Jesus, then their sins are forgiven. Then no one can say, "You're going to hell." If they have been saved by Jesus, no one can condemn them to hell.

I am very sorry if some people are saying that to you. If you know that you are truly saved by Jesus just tell them, "I repented and put all my sins under the blood of Jesus. He forgave me, and my eternal home is in Heaven." Period, finish!

Just stay close to Jesus, confess your daily sins to Him, and let Him take care of you.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Originally Posted by ^Angel^
Actually Reba is right, it's in the bible, I haven't reach that far in my bible, so I didn't know....

Here is what it says

Timothy 2:9

"And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearl or expensive clothes "

Momoftwo took ^Angel^’s post as quote to response….

Originally Posted by Momoftwo

Hi Angel

WHAT???? I read my bible and it says the same. I find it very odd!!!!! It's because I have many real gold jewelries, real pearl necklaces, etc and some of my clothes are expensive. Does it mean that I'm showing? NO! It's JUST what I like the designs, very pretty and I LOVE real jewelries because it looks so beautiful. I have many 100% cashmere sweaters - is that a showoff? NO, I love it so much because it does not itch my skin and it is so soft and yes, it is expensive - over $100 dollars. It must be that Timothy's interpretation is different. Like God says...treat poor and rich people in the same way. Rich people have money and they're lucky. Poor people don't have that much money and they're not lucky.

Momoftwo

Reba took Momoftwo’s post as quote to response….

Originally Posted by Reba
There is nothing wrong with wearing gold, pearls, or nice clothing. The Bible verse that is quoted means do not use outward decoration to distract attention from inward beauty. That is, real beauty comes from the inward soul, not from outward decoration.

If a person is truly beautiful inside, that person doesn't depend on jewelry or clothing for that beauty. The inside will show thru.

If a person is truly ugly inside, that person can't use jewelry or clothing to hide that ugliness. The inside will show thru.

God enjoys Christians looking nice. God doesn't enjoy Christians using excessive "glitz" or "sexiness" to emphasize, "hey, everyone, look at me, and feel jealous of me!" That is the difference.

Huh? I don’t understand your response on Momoftwo’s post since I thought you do everything what God/Jesus wants or what? You responsed different as Angel's post over Timothy 2:9? It look like you are not agree to Timothy's opinion or what?

Now you see that Momoftwo mentioned in her post that “Timothy's interpretation is different” – that’s exactly what I mean is Timothy is an Author who use his word image to write God/Jesus scriptures. Now you see that every Authors have different opinion to translate from scriptures. It look like that Timothy wants us to do what God suggest?

I don’t believe that Jesus and God would want us wear what God/Jesus wants. They are respectful people and accept what we are because they want us happy.

How would you feel if your hubby tells you what do with your clothes you should wear?

Would you like if your hubby want to change your image because he like?

Would you choose clothes to wear your young children without fulfilling their wishes? Would I choose to wear my children which I know they have different fashionable taste… Nooooo… I let my children choose what they like to wear. (I know my limit).

Should I choose to wear for my hubby and children because the bible says so? Must I do everything what author of the bible says?

To me, Nooooo I rather to accept what my hubby & children are instead of change them what I want. Do you really believe God/Jesus wants that? I don’t.

I wear what I like – nobody tell me what do with my taste what I wear because I like it. I don’t care what everyone wears because they have different taste as me… Why should we judge their tastes then?

 

[Cheri]

Yes, we are all sinners, and we all need the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Some people don't know that. There are some people who don't know, or don't accept the fact that they are sinners. They must understand that they are sinners before it is possible to be saved by Jesus. If they accept Jesus, then their sins are forgiven. Then no one can say, "You're going to hell." If they have been saved by Jesus, no one can condemn them to hell.

I am very sorry if some people are saying that to you. If you know that you are truly saved by Jesus just tell them, "I repented and put all my sins under the blood of Jesus. He forgave me, and my eternal home is in Heaven." Period, finish!

Just stay close to Jesus, confess your daily sins to Him, and let Him take care of you.

Thanks Hun, I love your respond.

 

[Reba]

...Huh? I don’t understand your response on Momoftwo’s post since I thought you do everything what God/Jesus wants or what? You responsed different as Angel's post over Timothy 2:9? It look like you are not agree to Timothy's opinion or what?

I don't understand your problem with the responses. I totally agree with the verse in Timothy. I just gave a more detailed explanation of it.

Now you see that Momoftwo mentioned in her post that “Timothy's interpretation is different”

Timothy didn't "interpret" it differently; Momoftwo understood it differently.

... It look like that Timothy wants us to do what God suggest?

Well, of course. Timothy wouldn't write a verse that says disobey God!

I don’t believe that Jesus and God would want us wear what God/Jesus wants.

If they didn't want us wear what they want, why would they tell us to wear what they want? Of course they want us to obey. God doesn't give us His Word just to babble. He gives us His Word so that we can know what He wants us to do, and then He expects us to do it.

They are respectful people and accept what we are because they want us happy.

God wants us to live holy. Thru His Word, He shows us the way to do that.

How would you feel if your hubby tells you what do with your clothes you should wear?

I trust my husband. If he really believed that I was wearing something inappropriate, I would respect his opinion and change my clothes. It has never happened but if it did, I would obey him. It is no big deal. BTW, he also respects my opinion about his clothing (usually he requests my help).

Would you like if your hubby want to change your image because he like?

I'm not sure what you mean by "change your image" but I do ask his opinion about things like a new hairdo. Usually he just says, "if it makes you happy, I like it."

Would you choose clothes to wear your young children without fulfilling their wishes?

If their "wishes" were immodest, too expensive, or not appropriate to the occassion, then yes, I would make the decision. I would explain the reason, and offer alternative choices.

Must I do everything what author of the bible says?

Of course.

To me, Nooooo I rather to accept what my hubby & children are instead of change them what I want. Do you really believe God/Jesus wants that? I don’t.

What verse says "change them (hubby & children) what I want"?

Do you mean train your children to become more like Jesus? Yes, God wants that.

Are you supposed to change your husband to what you want? No.

I wear what I like – nobody tell me what do with my taste what I wear because I like it.

My Hubby has never told me what to wear.
The Navy used to tell me what to wear.
My employer tells me what to wear (in general, not exactly).
My budget limits what I can wear.

 

[Y]

BEFORE I became saved, I told myself NEVER
to let anyone else tell me what to wear !!
And I wore very sexy clothes
whatever I WANTED no matter
what others think of me...but then
AFTER I became saved,
I wear very simple humble clothes
Later..I kept asking myself
who told me to change ? No one else
can tell me to change, but
except Jesus in my heart
change everything inside of me even though
I was NOT planning to change my clothes style at all.
My life activities are different, too etc...

I'm so glad that He took care of
everything in me with life changes, etc.
Praaaise the Lord !!

Don't worry !! You can NOT change yourself...
only Jesus can change you if you allow Him
in your heart, thats all. Simple.

 

[Momoftwo]

BEFORE I became saved, I told myself NEVER
to let anyone else tell me what to wear !!
And I wore very sexy clothes
whatever I WANTED no matter
what others think of me...but then
AFTER I became saved,
I wear very simple humble clothes
Later..I kept asking myself
who told me to change ? No one else
can tell me to change, but
except Jesus in my heart
change everything inside of me even though
I was NOT planning to change my clothes style at all.
My life activities are different, too etc...

I'm so glad that He took care of
everything in me with life changes, etc.
Praaaise the Lord !!

Don't worry !! You can NOT change yourself...
only Jesus can change you if you allow Him
in your heart, thats all. Simple.

Y,

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!! And also, your explanation is PERFECT because it helps others to understand a lot better. YES!!!!!! My mother, my 3 sisters, my all of my aunts, all of my female cousins, all of my nieces, all of my grandmothers, etc etc and I wear proper clothes - no too sexy clothes but only during their private with their husbands like husband and wife in bed - sexy nightgown (their romantic) - that's fine.

Momoftwo

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Good grief, I'm not going to give my whole boring life story. I was just using a simple example to help you understand the concept of separation. I wasn't trying to impress you.

To me this is not 'separation' -switching from bars etc to church activities- it's just - change. Do you think if I stopped going to the movies because of no captions there I 'separated' myself from the theater?? As a handicapped, I felt so strongly about it! no I just <stopped> going there, ya know, just as you stopped going there too, but just for different reason.
It's only your personal convinction that makes you think what you did is being "saved".... saved form the movies... hmmm..
And of course what I meant by 'not impressed' I meant the change in general itself not by you.


I'm afraid YOU don't get it. Yes, there is only one God; but not all people worship Him.

hmm.. you just agreed with me..Yes, there is only one God
There is one God and all people worship Him, not all people call him the same name, though..

Why would anyone need an "official" declaration from someone before they realize that hating Jews is a sin?

Why would anyone need to be reminded from the preacher desk of God's word??


Also, papal declarations apply only to Catholics. God's declarations of sin apply to every one.

While it's true the Pope represents Catholicism they have the same God declarations.
To me, only Catholicism is valid christian religion, closest to Jesus and Old and New Testament.
All the other Churches that followed starting with Anglican Church is manipulated by people accordingly to their wishes.
Henry VIII declared himself head of Church only because he wanted divorce and tweaked the laws here and there as it suited him.
What kind of church is that ? one tainted with human touch..(with all due respect)
Catholic Chuch is the only one that solidly and consequently takes stand over the ages against any changes done to the way Jesus taught his followers.

. I knew that hating Jews was a sin long before the Pope announced it

I knew that too, and I am neither Catholic nor Christian... as you see you don't need being saved to know what's wrong and what's not.


Why would you feel "unworthy, stupid, selfish, misguided"? Maybe your heart is under conviction by the Holy Spirit? Maybe you are struggling with the decision?

No, let me assure you I was merely being sarcastic.
I juts wanted to point out your attention to the fact that while you admit you shouldn't sound sound 'holier than thou', I am sorry to say but you do sound like that to me.


Tsk tsk tsk.. is that what Christianity is about? And can you imagine what it does to my self-esteem?

You misunderstood completely.

Yes, we Christians are not just waiting but also inviting every lost soul with our open arms.

Well you certainly don't me make feel that..

I never, never said that Christians are better people than non-Christians.

No? perhaps not in direct words but this speak a lot of your attitude:
Non-Christians don't care how they dress (speak, behave) because they don't care how Jesus feels.

You can have Jesus Christ too.

I have Jesus in my heart.
I just don't need that crap about saved - unsaved, modest dressing, black soul -white soul, because I understood long ago that having Jesus in one's heart is simply being a good person and love other people.
Jesus is NOT going to be unhappy that I went to the party as long as I remember what matters.
I do not speak with disgust about women who dress sexy and "spread their legs". I respect them despite their choices knowing that only God is the one who can judge.


Fuzzy

 

[Maria]

AudioFuzzy : hmm.. you just agreed with me..Yes, there is only one God
There is one God and all people worship Him, not all people call him the same name, though..

FYI, God don't know their gods.

 

[GalaxyAngel]

Liebling..
I'm sorry.. Im not here for this proprite thread because of bible thumpers here.. huge changed thread.

Supposed be stick thread about self-esteem ??? Now what happend?
I'd rather not come here... anymore.. this thread.. I'll find else where another thread..

 

[Reba]

... It's only your personal convinction that makes you think what you did is being "saved".... saved form the movies... hmmm..

I didn't say "saved from the movies". I was trying to show that I prefer to attend my church's services rather than attend movies, especially movies that are during church time. The reason is because after I was saved, my desires and interests changed.

hmm.. you just agreed with me..Yes, there is only one God
There is one God and all people worship Him, not all people call him the same name, though..

I agree that there is only One God. I do NOT agree that all people worship Him. Some people worship other false gods. Some people (atheists) don't worship any god.

While it's true the Pope represents Catholicism they have the same God declarations.

Not true. The Pope makes many declarations that are NOT from God.

The Pope declares people as saints, that people should worship Mary and pray to saints, that unbaptized babies go to Limbo, that people die and to go Purgatory, that prayers can be made for dead people, that people should confess to priests, that only people who fulfill Catholic sacrements can be saved, etc. None of those declarations are from God.

...All the other Churches that followed starting with Anglican Church is manipulated by people accordingly to their wishes.

The original New Testament churches directly followed the Bible. Over the years, some of the churches fell into apostasy, and focused more on joining together for political and financial power. They eventually become the Catholic church hierarchy. The rest of the small humble churches stayed faithful to God's Word but had to worship more secretly because of persecution from the Catholic church. These churches continued separate from the Catholic Church, and separate from the later Protestant churches.

Henry VIII declared himself head of Church only because he wanted divorce and tweaked the laws here and there as it suited him.
What kind of church is that ? one tainted with human touch..(with all due respect)
Catholic Chuch is the only one that solidly and consequently takes stand over the ages against any changes done to the way Jesus taught his followers.

The true faithful churches stayed separated from Anglican and Catholic churches. Both were corrupted and led by hierarchies of political men.

I don't like discussing denominations because it sounds critical but you brought it up and I can't let your statements go unchallenged.

Well you certainly don't me make feel that...

What would you like to hear that would make you feel welcome? I am serious.

I have Jesus in my heart.
I just don't need that crap about saved - unsaved, modest dressing, black soul -white soul, because I understood long ago that having Jesus in one's heart is simply being a good person and love other people.

That is your opinion; that is NOT what Jesus said.
Jesus said, "Ye must be born again."
The Bible also says that no one is good enough, only Jesus.
The only way to get Jesus into the heart is by confessing to be a sinner, repenting sin, and accepting the salvation of Jesus' shed blood. We can't boast of our good works because we have none good enough.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

>>>The original New Testament churches directly followed the Bible<<<

Just Bible's interpretation, that's all,
and listening to you, to Yehova Witnesses, to Protestants to any Christian, Catholics including, each of you insist his is the only right way, and hence it's just becoming too funny..

What would you like to hear that would make you feel welcome? I am serious.

Honestly Reba? Probably nothing because I am just not into it,
but certainly getting off the "saved -unsaved" horse for anyone would be a good start.
I apologize, but the way it sounds it is like racial segregation - black is bad white is supreme (which the latter is not true of course and I am giving this just as an example).
But since this seem to be a base of your Church is founded on, I guess there is nothing to be done about it.

Reba, thank you for this exchange of views with me.
But I think and I feel you'll agree we started to repeat ourselves, don't we?
I think I have said my piece over and over probably

Peace to you

Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

FYI, God don't know their gods

lol Cyber Red if anything I would think who like who but God knows everything...
and since in your eyes other Gods are not real Gods then your personal almighty God should know about them all the more, shouldn't he?

anyhoo, the idea that all Gods under any name is the same God is quite philosophical and requires an open mind..

Fuzzy

 

[Maria]

FYI, God don't know their gods

lol Cyber Red if anything I would think who like who but God knows everything...
and since in your eyes other Gods are not real Gods then your personal almighty God should know about them all the more, shouldn't he?

anyhoo, the idea that all Gods under any name is the same God is quite philosophical and requires an open mind..

Fuzzy

Interestin'... that's YOUR philosophy.