Selective abortion.

[KarissaMann05]

Can you explain why you still disagree on some of the issues?

I'm not sure how I can say... I decide to not explain why I disagreed. Sorry, Jo. =_=

I understand what you are trying to say from being a pro-life but at the same time, Let's put yourself in a position for a minute - If you were to be pregnant with a fetus which you know has a severe disability that contains a short life span (for instance, the child only will survive for 2-5 years), would you still go with the abortion or not?

Some of your questions are very good ones. You see, a several pro-lifers were very sad about that... they did choose an abortion for themselves an their kids, through they re still pro-lifers. I understood their logical intentions... Keep that mind, that's not so common in pro-life comunnity... so, I'd say I will go for it.

Would you rather proceed with the abortion and to save yourself from a heartbreak knowing that your child will die, regardless?

Yeah, I would have it, even I hate abortion issues.

I do understand your point, so don't worry. I'm with ya.

Oh and thanks for kindly comment on my thoughtful post.

 

[Byrdie714]

We are the ONLY species in the animal kingdom that intervene the process. Animals would just kill or abandon them.

Pragmatically, infanticide makes sense for a disabled newborn that would be unlikely to be adopted. The unfortunate reality is that virtually ALL children waiting to be adopted are disabled. There is absolutely NO healthy baby waiting to be adopted.

"In a public statement [1], The Minnesota Department of Human Services supports these broad claims. "Of the 1,002 children waiting for adoption: All have been traumatized during their critical developmental years. Most, if not all, will need additional educational, medical or psychological help as they grow toward maturity. 70 percent are siblings who need to be adopted together." If we extrapolate these statistics by population [2], there are 57,800 waiting children in the United States, and almost all are disabled, or associated with a disabled sibling."

Adoption - Disabled Children

Interesting to note that the father was advised to adopt a blind kid since he himself is blind but he said he DID NOT WANT a blind child. He explains his reasons. He did not want a deaf child either as he feared he would not be able to communicate.

And it's still a sad state of affairs that conservatives want to keep a ban on gay adoption because a lot of gay couples would be more likely to adopt disabled children and help reduce the long list of children waiting.

*BRAVO*

 

[KarissaMann05]

And it's still a sad state of affairs that conservatives want to keep a ban on gay adoption because a lot of gay couples would be more likely to adopt disabled children and help reduce the long list of children waiting.

Yeah, I see the same thing too. I was so frustation when I tried to explain to anti-gay people why homosexual couples want to have a family and homosexality is just similar to hetersexuality. Personally, I'd witnessed two mommies did so fantastic with their kids when I visited my friend's place during high school time...

So, I do not want to see their dreams, of being family person, are crushed by anti-gay issuses.

Oh, and don't forget. Single people do want to have a child too.

By the way, good post!

 

[netrox]

"Oh, and don't forget. Single people do want to have a child too."

Oh YES! That too! Please for the sake for our future, don't deny children the right to have a loving home, no matter who the adopter is! Straight, gay, disabled, normal, black, white, single, married, whatever... if they want to take care of those children, PLEASE let them!

 

[jillio]

We are the ONLY species in the animal kingdom that intervene the process. Animals would just kill or abandon them.

Pragmatically, infanticide makes sense for a disabled newborn that would be unlikely to be adopted. The unfortunate reality is that virtually ALL children waiting to be adopted are disabled. There is absolutely NO healthy baby waiting to be adopted.

"In a public statement [1], The Minnesota Department of Human Services supports these broad claims. "Of the 1,002 children waiting for adoption: All have been traumatized during their critical developmental years. Most, if not all, will need additional educational, medical or psychological help as they grow toward maturity. 70 percent are siblings who need to be adopted together." If we extrapolate these statistics by population [2], there are 57,800 waiting children in the United States, and almost all are disabled, or associated with a disabled sibling."

Adoption - Disabled Children

Interesting to note that the father was advised to adopt a blind kid since he himself is blind but he said he DID NOT WANT a blind child. He explains his reasons. He did not want a deaf child either as he feared he would not be able to communicate.

And it's still a sad state of affairs that conservatives want to keep a ban on gay adoption because a lot of gay couples would be more likely to adopt disabled children and help reduce the long list of children waiting.

 

[shel90]

heeyyyy don't worry about it. Speak your mind! that's all I care about. I understand what you're saying. But... you do have a conflicting view because your belief and political view (regarding abortion) are in conflict with each other. But that's ok. we all do with many other issues. I am a consistent 100% pro-choice because my belief and political view are in agreement with each other.

I used sperm example because people say fetus is a breathing life with a soul & spirit and killing fetus is murder. Well then - by applying that logic to sperm example... I masturbated/fornicated and ejaculated millions of sperms - a living life form that moves and have power to create a life. It has soul too. Am I committing murder by masturbating/fornicating? or by having a vasectomy or castration? If the answer is no - then abortion of fetus is not a murder either. They're both bunch of cells and gooey too with no visible body parts that resemble of a fully-developed baby.

The same logic could be applied to women having their montly mentrual period..since the egg wasnt fertilized so the egg is discarded hence the mentrual cycle. Am I committing murder by not having my eggs fertilized each month since each egg is a potential life. Maybe last month's egg could be a future Olympian and next month's egg could be a future Nobal Prize winner.

The logic doesnt make sense so therefore, a fertilized egg/sperm or fetus being aborted is not murder.

 

[shel90]

Human life begins at conception, that's a fact. There's NOTHING to debate.

The real issue is personhood. What rights should a fetus be entitled to? For me, it's quite simple. As long as a fetus is inside a woman's womb, the woman carrying it is the one to decide if the fetus should be a person or not. That woman is the ONLY person to bestow that personhood right to her fetus, not you or me. But when a woman bestows THAT right to a fetus, she ASSUMES full responsibility for the health of her fetus.

As for "soul", it's completely meaningless. It's a religious belief and even religious organizations are divided on what "soul" or even when it is formed. There's no proof of "soul" or "spirit." If you oppose abortion because you believe soul begins at conception, that's fine but you cannot impose your religious values on others at all. It's anti-American; the First Amendment says that we have religious freedom and that's it. Religious arguments are NEVER accepted in courts and will never be.

Thank goodness for that!

 

[Wokamuka]

Throw together some water, yeast, and starch - the pro-lifers would say you have beer.

It wouldn't be beer until it matures. Maturity, I guess, is a lost art.

What of cheese? Is it cheese when it is curd? Pro-lifers would argue that it is.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Want to know my honesty ? Sure, I would call you a murderer, if you choose to stay alive over fetus.

Is commit suicide a sin? OR selfish?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I don't consider myself as bitter just because I believe I and every other disabled person deserve the rights of life the same as everyone else.

Well, I'm disabled and do not consider myself as a disablitiy because I can do anything except hear and beleive in treat as a normal human being.

Well in some countries people will cry over the birth of a daughter instead of a son. Should we promote killing female babies too.

The comparison you made is a fallicious.

If your deaf friend had such low self worth that they think a child like themselves should be killed I would pity them more then anything but I wouldn't believe it morally right to let them kill a baby because of this such a low self estemed. It really depresses me that there are people who feel this way.

Please re-read my post over my deaf friend carefully. I do not see anything that she had her fetus removal but decide to not have another baby to company her deaf child after got result from gene test that she would likely to have another deaf child. What she choose is her own decision.

Since you weren't living with us you really don't know what you are talking about.

I simple ASKED you either you ask your parents about the difference raise between disabled child and normal child since you mentioned your own word word "I don't think my parents......"

I will NEVER respect a person who wants to kill her own baby no matter what is wrong with it. I believe in diversity in a society. That includes lots of disabled children being born.

How can we expect respect from those without disabilities if we don't respect ourselves.

The difference between abortion and murder.

Abortion = an embryo or a fetus removal
Murder = killing another human

 

[Maria]

Is commit suicide a sin? OR selfish?

There's 2 different views on " commit suicide " and " selfish ". Commit suicide doesn't mean that you kill a fetus, but it does show your " selfish " side for keepin' yourself to live rather than to save a fetus' life. As for commit suicide, someone kill oneself or take one self's life away....it has nothin' to do with a fetus. But, if it comes to a fetus, it has to be someone's hands to get rid of a fetus meanin' that someone don't want a fetus to live. That's a murder. I believe a fetus DOES have a soul. It have its own blood...meanin' " life ".

Of course, each one of you have your own different opinions/POV. But, I still remain the same what I said. I am still against abortion, no matter what people say or think of my sayings. IF, you want what you believe then, so be it. No offense.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

A fetus can not survive with out the mother. If the mothers life is compromised so is the fetus.

Therefore in reality the mother actually had no choice to choose her life over the fetus. Abortion then is the right choice. Why lose two lives.

I am pro choice

Exactly!

 

[Maria]

Yes.

Okay. Blessed your mother's heart for allowin' you to live in despite of her " not knowin' what to do ". You are here to meet AD people. Each person have their own purpose to be here.

 

[jillio]

Is commit suicide a sin? OR selfish?

That depends. Some religions consider it to be a sin that will prevent the entrance of the soul into heaven. Yet, Maria proposes that a woman commit suicide by refusing the medical treatment that would save her life. Kind of hypocritical, isn't it?

 

[Maria]

That depends. Some religions consider it to be a sin that will prevent the entrance of the soul into heaven. Yet, Maria proposes that a woman commit suicide by refusing the medical treatment that would save her life. Kind of hypocritical, isn't it?

Who said anythin' about " medical treatment " ? You just said about medical treatment. I am NOT talkin' about medical treatment. I am talkin' about if, someone want to kill oneself, then that's commit suicide. Understand ? Gee, you need to get your statement straighten out.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

There's 2 different views on " commit suicide " and " selfish ".

Please re-read my question... I did said commit suicide OR selfish, not AND.

Commit suicide doesn't mean that you kill a fetus, but it does show your " selfish " side for keepin' yourself to live rather than to save a fetus' life. As for commit suicide, someone kill oneself or take one self's life away....it has nothin' to do with a fetus. But, if it comes to a fetus, it has to be someone's hands to get rid of a fetus meanin' that someone don't want a fetus to live. That's a murder. I believe a fetus DOES have a soul. It have its own blood...meanin' " life ".

You can't have both ways.

At first you answered my general question to consider it as a murder if I choose to save my life (life threatening) over fetus. I questioned you about commit suicide as a sin OR selfish if I choose to save fetus's life to end my life.

I would consider it as a suicide commit and selfish if I choose to save fetus's life over my life to leave my family behind. Is it fair to leave newborn to my famliy to take care of alone without me?

Of course, each one of you have your own different opinions/POV. But, I still remain the same what I said. I am still against abortion, no matter what people say or think of my sayings. IF, you want what you believe then, so be it. No offense.

I have no problem that we have different POV but I see why not to question you or respectfully debate with you. What's Forum for?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Who said anythin' about " medical treatment " ? You just said about medical treatment. I am NOT talkin' about medical treatment. I am talkin' about if, someone want to kill oneself, then that's commit suicide. Understand ? Gee, you need to get your statement straighten out.

No, Jillio did not say anything direct you but answer my question generally "That depends. Some religions consider it to be a sin that will prevent the entrance of the soul into heaven" because she knows religion beleivers in religion debate threads. That's why I asked you question about because I know many religion debate threads over commit suicide issues in the past...

 

[Maria]

No, Jillio did not say anything direct you but answer my question generally "That depends. Some religions consider it to be a sin that will prevent the entrance of the soul into heaven" because she knows religion beleivers in religion debate threads. That's why I asked you question about because I know many religion debate threads over commit suicide issues in the past...

Well, she brings up my name about " Yet, Maria proposes that a woman commit suicide by refusing the medical treatment that would save her life. " She talked about medical treatment. :roll:

 

[jillio]

Who said anythin' about " medical treatment " ? You just said about medical treatment. I am NOT talkin' about medical treatment. I am talkin' about if, someone want to kill oneself, then that's commit suicide. Understand ? Gee, you need to get your statement straighten out.

An abortion is a medical procedure. If a doctor tells a woman that she must abort a pregnancy in order to save her own life, and she refuses that medical treatment, and dies as a result, she has committed suicide by failing to do that which would have saved her own life. You are recommending that women do just that.

In that case, the woman has committed suicide, which is considered to be a sin punishable by eternal damnation in many religions. So, by your logic, you consider that to be acceptable.

 

[Maria]

Please re-read my question... I did said commit suicide OR selfish, not AND.

I already read your question the first time and understand you. My view is different and I don't see both ( commit suicide and selfish ) are the same.



You can't have both ways.

Sorry, like I said my view is different and I don't view the same as you.

At first you answered my general question to consider it as a murder if I choose to save my life (life threatening) over fetus. I questioned you about commit suicide as a sin OR selfish if I choose to save fetus's life to end my life.

I would consider it as a suicide commit and selfish if I choose to save fetus's life over my life to leave my family behind. Is it fair to leave newborn to my famliy to take care of alone without me?

I think it is okay to leave newborn to the family to take care of. It's not the first time when it happens to some mothers. It's common.


I have no problem that we have different POV but I see why not to question you or respectfully debate with you. What's Forum for?

Ditto.