School for the Deaf denies deaf child with Down Syndrome placement

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TheOracle said:
We need to start paying attention!
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Interesting article. Quite sad. Further illustrates the need for appropriate testing/services/ placement. What struck me was the comment about "low expectations". If my child also had Down syndrome I wouldn't lower the bar- I'd encourage them to continue learning and become independent. When parents and professionals have no expectations, the child will certainly meet those expectations. Although they'll probably never be able to amount to much, since much was never expected of them.
 
CSign said:
Interesting article. Quite sad. Further illustrates the need for appropriate testing/services/ placement. What struck me was the comment about "low expectations". If my child also had Down syndrome I wouldn't lower the bar- I'd encourage them to continue learning and become independent. When parents and professionals have no expectations, the child will certainly meet those expectations. Although they'll probably never be able to amount to much, since much was never expected of them.
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I agree. The idea in this thread that 'hearing placements' are better than deaf ones is a myth. *sigh*
 
CSign said:
How is the mainstream "infinitely more prepared" to deal with a profoundly deaf child with developmental delays? If the mainstream cannot address a deaf childs communication needs, how would that be effective? Access to language and communication is first and foremost. A child with developmental delays who is also deaf will not benefit from a placement that does not provide for complete communication across the board.

The Department of Education had enough information to make a decision, which is why they were found out of compliance. Providing the name of the school isn't going to change much.
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If you knew that of which you attempt to speak, you would already have the answer to your question. Those of us that deal with school systems on a regular basis in the area of accommodation know that without a doubt.

The Dept. of Ed does not decide due process cases. Another red flag.
 
CSign said:
A certain school for the deaf has denied a profoundly deaf child placement because she has Down Syndrome.

I'm disgusted. There are children who are falling through the cracks and being denied appropriate services and placement because they don't fit into one box.

What is this world coming to?
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I recall that there was a Downs deaf child that visited our school with potential placement possible. But the parents decided against it. In a dormitory setting there is always the risk of sexual abuse by other students. Downs people need special attention that many schools cannot afford. But I do understand your concern!
 
Iam all for every child to be at deaf schools ...I just want to know more details of this case before I can make a judgement. I don't appreciate the comments saying that we don't want this child to have access to language and the comments on our deafness being secondary and etc. My problem is that I can't jusge without enough information. I know that there are big and small deaf schools and not all of them have the same service for children with additional needs. That is the problem...which school is it and what exactly kind of specialized service does it have? Until then, pls refrain from acussing us for not being diverse and etc. Flaming is not necessary.
 
CSign said:
So a little update. I filed a compliance complaint on behalf of the parents/student. A very well respected law firm has taken the case, and we are just waiting to see the schools next move. Hopefully we will be able to get the situation resolved without going to Due Process; but if we can't, I feel good about the fact that the family has the expert support of one of the best firms available.
Compliance complaints typically take about 60 days to come to a resolution so we just have to be patient. If it does end up going to DP, I'll post the information because at that point it will be a matter of public record. I just hope and pray we can come to a positive resolution before that happens.
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Jillio: reference above quote.

It didn't go to due process because we got a successful resolution through the compliance complaint.
 
Although I should add that the attorneys are still on board if any funny business takes place. I suspect that everyone will be on their best behavior though, given that the DOE is involved.
 
jillio said:
If you knew that of which you attempt to speak, you would already have the answer to your question. Those of us that deal with school systems on a regular basis in the area of accommodation know that without a doubt.

The Dept. of Ed does not decide due process cases. Another red flag.
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I don't attempt- I follow through to the finish line.
Mainstreaming can barely address the needs of a d/Deaf child- let alone the needs of a deaf child with Down syndrome.
I appreciate that you think you "know me"- but you don't. I am way more involved with the school systems than I really want to be. The fact is that a Childs needs are the most important thing in my book.
 
DD, if the girl had DS, it isn't to assume that she wasn't verbal. Sign is no easier or harder than any other primary language. As a secondary language, it may be even more beneficial.

What I don't understand is how people can say that mainstream schools aren't good enough for Deaf but they're good enough for a D/S child because the deafness is 'secondary'. Shit. I don't know a single Deaf person on AD who says their Deafness is secondary.
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The Oracle, if I recall correctly the evalution stated that she had a low sign level. Like only a few hundred signs. The communication issues in Down Syndrome are due to apraxia. Kids with apraxia, when they are given ASL/Sign improve greatly. That hasn't happened. That is a red flag. Of course, it's possible that if she is immersed in it, she could improve a lot. Then again we really don't know the facts, and really can't say. Prolly only a very experianced language therapist could say whether or not she could benifit from a Deaf School placement or from ASL.
We are not saying that hearing schools are better then Deaf Schools for DS kids with a secondary dx. We are saying that her mental handicap sounds like such, that she would be better served in a program for kids with severe mental disabilties. She would get Sign, as they use Sign in communication therapy, as well as PECS, switches etc. If she was Down's with mild or mild/moderate mental disablity, she would fit in at the Deaf School a lot better. But this case is EXTREMELY tough.
We're talking about LOW LOW incidence disabilty. I do think a good idea might be to have regional programs at different Deaf Schools around the country, for kids like these. Either that, or open up the Deaf Blind programs for kids with deafness and significent mental handicaps, but no blindness.
 
A person who is deaf has the right to access language and communication regardless of a cognitive disability. Frankly, it's appalling that people would suggest otherwise.
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We're not saying that. What we're saying is that severely mentally handicapped kids, may not benifit from ASL as a LANGUAGE or from placement at a random Deaf School, that does not have a specialized mentally handicapped program. They would benifit more from a mentally handicapped program, as they would get training in how to communicate. They get stuff like PECs, Sign, speech therapy and how to use switches. The thing that you're missing is that kids with severe cognitive disabilties cannot benifit from ASL, in the way that dhh kids with milder cognitive disabilties can benifit. They can benifit from some Sign, and other stuff but the programming at an average Deaf School, even in most special needs programs is a bit more sophisicated language wise, and more academic. It would be like plonking a three year old into a second grade class. (and that's even with mental handicap programs, as most mild/moderate MH kids can learn/develop basic acadmeic skills...it's just that it takes them longer
 
Mainstreaming can barely address the needs of a d/Deaf child- let alone the needs of a deaf child with Down syndrome.
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We're not advocating mainstreaming at ALL. In the mainstream there would only be access to accomondations for those with mild mental disabilty. What we are advocating is placement in a severe mental handicap program or a deaf-blind program, open to deaf kids with severe mental handicap issues.
Did you know that Perkins School for the Blind has opened their Deaf Blind program to Deaf kids with severe mental handicaps?
I do think an awesome idea would be to expand the deaf blind programs for kids like we're talking about through Schools for the Blind. The student we're talking about, sounds exactly like a multihandicapped Deaf-Blind kid, without the blindness.....and this way she could get ASL, as ASL is used with Deaf Blind kids.
 
deafdyke said:
We're not advocating mainstreaming at ALL. In the mainstream there would only be access to accomondations for those with mild mental disabilty. What we are advocating is placement in a severe mental handicap program or a deaf-blind program, open to deaf kids with severe mental handicap issues.
Did you know that Perkins School for the Blind has opened their Deaf Blind program to Deaf kids with severe mental handicaps?
I do think an awesome idea would be to expand the deaf blind programs for kids like we're talking about through Schools for the Blind. The student we're talking about, sounds exactly like a multihandicapped Deaf-Blind kid, without the blindness.....and this way she could get ASL, as ASL is used with Deaf Blind kids.
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My mainstreaming comment was a direct response to Jillio- I do apologize if that was not clear to you.

I don't see your logic at all in placing a sighted deaf child in a program for deaf- blind students. You mentioned that before and I just disregarded it. That would be in no way appropriate. Deaf-blind students would be exposed to tactile signing- not ASL in it's "natural state" (due to lack of a better term).
 
deafdyke said:
We're not saying that. What we're saying is that severely mentally handicapped kids, may not benifit from ASL as a LANGUAGE or from placement at a random Deaf School, that does not have a specialized mentally handicapped program. They would benifit more from a mentally handicapped program, as they would get training in how to communicate. They get stuff like PECs, Sign, speech therapy and how to use switches. The thing that you're missing is that kids with severe cognitive disabilties cannot benifit from ASL, in the way that dhh kids with milder cognitive disabilties can benifit. They can benifit from some Sign, and other stuff but the programming at an average Deaf School, even in most special needs programs is a bit more sophisicated language wise, and more academic. It would be like plonking a three year old into a second grade class. (and that's even with mental handicap programs, as most mild/moderate MH kids can learn/develop basic acadmeic skills...it's just that it takes them longer
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So what LANGUAGE then, do you propose for a profoundly deaf child with cognitive challenges? Last time I checked PECS was not a language, and spoken English isn't accessible so... They aren't really entitled to a natural language? Just a PECS?
 
I know that there are big and small deaf schools and not all of them have the same service for children with additional needs. That is the problem...which school is it and what exactly kind of specialized service does it have? Until then, pls refrain from acussing us for not being diverse and etc. Flaming is not necessary.
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Right on! Not to mention that kids like this represent a very hard to place population. They don't fit in with the mild kids, since a lot of those kids are very academic, and they don't fit in with the severe/profound kids in terms of functioning either.
I don't see your logic at all in placing a sighted deaf child in a program for deaf- blind students. You mentioned that before and I just disregarded it. That would be in no way appropriate. Deaf-blind students would be exposed to tactile signing- not ASL in it's "natural state" (due to lack of a better term).
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That is where you're wrong. Most blind kids do have residual vision, so "Visual Frame"/ Close up ASL can be used.....which then makes it accessible to Deaf kids with more significent/severe mental disabilties.
So what LANGUAGE then, do you propose for a profoundly deaf child with cognitive challenges? Last time I checked PECS was not a language, and spoken English isn't accessible so... They aren't really entitled to a natural language? Just a PECS?
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That is not even what I was saying. In programs for kids with more severe cognitive issues, Sign is used quite frequently for communicative purposes. But it's not used as a language, the way it's used for just dhh or dhh with mild/moderate cognitive issues.
It's like the way you would not use the language you use with a three year old, with a first or second grader. Make sense? They can only use the language at a very simple/basic level, not at the level of academic kids.
That is what I was trying to say.....the Sign in the MH programs is on the level of the severely mentally handicapped kids.
 
Im curious about school itself to see if i have heard about it before like old news or new news. so i would know who works there and know who they are and know their ability skill to work with children.

That's all.
 
CSign said:
Jillio: reference above quote.

It didn't go to due process because we got a successful resolution through the compliance complaint.
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If it didn't go to due process, then the Dept. of Ed would not have been involved at all. The Dept. of Ed does not get involved in mediation, and will only become involved after a due process hearing. Only once a due process finding has been issued does it go to the next level. See, too many inconsistencies that are showing that you don't have a clue as to the process of finding a school out of compliance. But just keep posting. It is becoming clearer and clearer to all.
 
jillio said:
If it didn't go to due process, then the Dept. of Ed would not have been involved at all. The Dept. of Ed does not get involved in mediation, and will only become involved after a due process hearing. Only once a due process finding has been issued does it go to the next level. See, too many inconsistencies that are showing that you don't have a clue as to the process of finding a school out of compliance. But just keep posting. It is becoming clearer and clearer to all.
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Seriously Jillio? I mean, really? You must only read one sentence of my posts, then jump to your conclusions. Who said anything about mediation?

I filed a COMPLIANCE COMPLAINT with the Department of Education. You really need a hobby outside of AD.
 
CSign said:
Seriously Jillio? I mean, really? You must only read one sentence of my posts, then jump to your conclusions. Who said anything about mediation?

I filed a COMPLIANCE COMPLAINT with the Department of Education. You really need a hobby outside of AD.
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Then that would be in the public records.
 
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