Risk of Bacterial Meningitis and Death in Children with Cochlear Implants

Tousi said:
Hmmm, am I imagining this or what; you sound almost giddy, resting in the legal knowledge that the doctor (or whomever is the one to make sure the vaccination takes place, whether or not it works) wouldn't be at fault. I mean, come on, people in this profession, I imagine, at their basest came to it through altruism, the desire to heal and all that stuff, eh wot?
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Do no harm.
 
I think you are imagining it. I actually intended ot sound annoyed because I had to say the same thing three times because Jillio kept ignoring my point. And if I weren't altruistic, I wouldn't be doing non-profit work for people with hearing impairments, I would be back in corporate law making twice as much money.

Tousi said:
Hmmm, am I imagining this or what; you sound almost giddy, resting in the legal knowledge that the doctor (or whomever is the one to make sure the vaccination takes place, whether or not it works) wouldn't be at fault. I mean, come on, people in this profession, I imagine, at their basest came to it through altruism, the desire to heal and all that stuff, eh wot?
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Tousi said:
Hmmm, am I imagining this or what; you sound almost giddy, resting in the legal knowledge that the doctor (or whomever is the one to make sure the vaccination takes place, whether or not it works) wouldn't be at fault. I mean, come on, people in this profession, I imagine, at their basest came to it through altruism, the desire to heal and all that stuff, eh wot?
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I think that is not a fair comment to make about LTHF. She is very rationally and articulately explaining a point and not necessarily saying that it is her personal belief. I also think that she has consistently strived to stay out of the many petty arguments that myself and others flood this board with and has conssistently strived to provide useful and helpful information to all.
Rick
 
LTHFAdvocate said:
I think you are imagining it. I actually intended ot sound annoyed because I had to say the same thing three times because Jillio kept ignoring my point. And if I weren't altruistic, I wouldn't be doing non-profit work for people with hearing impairments, I would be back in corporate law making twice as much money.
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Ok, sure, sorry for singling you out--there was no one else around; I should have had the head to say/mean the profession, generally.
 
LTHFAdvocate said:
I think you are imagining it. I actually intended ot sound annoyed because I had to say the same thing three times because Jillio kept ignoring my point. And if I weren't altruistic, I wouldn't be doing non-profit work for people with hearing impairments, I would be back in corporate law making twice as much money.
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I'm not ignoring your point. I am countering your point. Quite a different thing. If I were ignoring your point, I would not respond.

And I believe Tousi was addressing the altruism of the medical profession, not the legal.
 
jillio said:
You can prove tht the risk was increased. Depending upon the stats used to determine the variance between the implanted population and the non-implanted population, a significant risk can be asssumed to be the causative factor. And, if , in the other cases as you have cited, the physician insured that the vaccine was documented, then he is absolved of responsibility for other causative factors. He adhered to accepted standards of practice, and therefore cannot be held responsible for factors not under his control. However, it is under his control to insure that the patient is vaccinated prior to surgery.
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Do you also believe that all professionals who work with deaf children regardless of whether the child has a CI or not should also do the same? We've already had a discussion on how compared to the hearing population, deaf children are at greater risk of contracting meningitis. I'm just wondering if your view is across the board?

It would be quite difficult at this stage to work out what the additional risk for a child with a CI is compared to another deaf child of the same etiology who was not implanted.
 
InTheGenes said:
I ran across the following article this morning, about parents who "fake" religious objections in order to refuse vaccinations for their children.

The story can be found here: Parents claim religion to avoid vaccines for kids - Kids & Parenting - MSNBC.com
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That's a good link since it is updated frequently and some parents were concern about mercury in some vaccinates and the live Polio virus vaccine causing problems in some cases but I see no good medical reason that I can find to refuse a meningitis vaccine.
 
R2D2 said:
Do you also believe that all professionals who work with deaf children regardless of whether the child has a CI or not should also do the same? We've already had a discussion on how compared to the hearing population, deaf children are at greater risk of contracting meningitis. I'm just wondering if your view is across the board?

It would be quite difficult at this stage to work out what the additional risk for a child with a CI is compared to another deaf child of the same etiology who was not implanted.
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It has been shown that there is an increased risk with invasive surgeries. Therefore, a physican should not be performing a surgery that is not to correct a life threatening condition and is categorized as "elective" without first insuring that all precautions have been taken to reduce the risk. Again, do no harm.
 
InTheGenes said:
I ran across the following article this morning, about parents who "fake" religious objections in order to refuse vaccinations for their children.

The story can be found here: Parents claim religion to avoid vaccines for kids - Kids & Parenting - MSNBC.com
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And if we stop vaccinating, the diseases that we intend to prevent recurr in even more virulent strains. I.E., we thought that we had irradicated small pox through vaccination, so we stopped requiring that chidlren be vaccinated for small pox. And, in fact, the disease has started to recurr. The same with polio.
 
All you need to do is look at any of the 50+ scientific citations on the Wiki page on Smallpox to know this isn't true. The last case of "wild" smallpox was over 30 years ago. The cases that have occurred since then have all been connected to vaccinations or laboratory research stock. So a) smallpox HASN'T started to reoccur, and b) the occasional case that is occurring couldn't possibly be more virulent than the original strain since it is the same stock being used for vaccinations that has caused the occasional artificial case.

While there is a thing called Polio relapse, where people who had polio have something called Post Polio Syndrome decades later, this isn't related to the vaccine either, and this is not considered a relapse or reinfection by any of the researchers on the topic

jillio said:
And if we stop vaccinating, the diseases that we intend to prevent recurr in even more virulent strains. I.E., we thought that we had irradicated small pox through vaccination, so we stopped requiring that chidlren be vaccinated for small pox. And, in fact, the disease has started to recurr. The same with polio.
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R2D2 said:
:eek3: A bit of a worry! One wonders if they know the make of the car they drive too?
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It is not all of the families... I meant to say some. I wasnt clear before. My mistake.
 
rick48 said:
And you wonder why these kids have not done well with their implants?
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and yet there are those families who know the brands, therapists, and so much more but their children havent done well with their implants. There are too many variables involved to really identify which one was the cause for each child.

My only point is that these things do happen.
 
LTHFAdvocate said:
All you need to do is look at any of the 50+ scientific citations on the Wiki page on Smallpox to know this isn't true. The last case of "wild" smallpox was over 30 years ago. The cases that have occurred since then have all been connected to vaccinations or laboratory research stock. So a) smallpox HASN'T started to reoccur, and b) the occasional case that is occurring couldn't possibly be more virulent than the original strain since it is the same stock being used for vaccinations that has caused the occasional artificial case.

While there is a thing called Polio relapse, where people who had polio have something called Post Polio Syndrome decades later, this isn't related to the vaccine either, and this is not considered a relapse or reinfection by any of the researchers on the topic
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Cases have occurred since then, by your own admission. What is an "artifiical case" of small pox? And, yes, the strain can become more virulent, as cases are still occuring in thrid world countries.

As with any infectious disease, failure to vaccinate results in carriers of the disease. I am not talking about Post-Polio Syndrome. That is a complication experienced by those with the antibodies resulting from having contracted the disease.

Do you really use Wiki for your research?
 
shel90 said:
and yet there are those families who know the brands, therapists, and so much more but their children havent done well with their implants. There are too many variables involved to really identify which one was the cause for each child.

My only point is that these things do happen.
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Exactly.
 
Show me a citation that backs up what you are saying. An artificial case is what they refer to as one that was directly traced to a vaccination source or a laboratory source rather than occurring with no known source in the population.

First you said failure to vaccinate causes virulent strains, now you say it creates "carriers" Which is it?

I merely referenced Wiki for convenience since it had a good collection of WHO and other very reputable citations. And I went and visited several of those pages individually to verify they stated what the Wiki entry claimed they said. Better to cross-check reputable sources and reference Wiki then post scientific pronouncements without any scientific backup at all

jillio said:
Cases have occurred since then, by your own admission. What is an "artifiical case" of small pox? And, yes, the strain can become more virulent, as cases are still occuring in thrid world countries.

As with any infectious disease, failure to vaccinate results in carriers of the disease. I am not talking about Post-Polio Syndrome. That is a complication experienced by those with the antibodies resulting from having contracted the disease.

Do you really use Wiki for your research?
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LTHFAdvocate said:
Show me a citation that backs up what you are saying. An artificial case is what they refer to as one that was directly traced to a vaccination source or a laboratory source rather than occurring with no known source in the population.

First you said failure to vaccinate causes virulent strains, now you say it creates "carriers" Which is it?

I merely referenced Wiki for convenience since it had a good collection of WHO and other very reputable citations. And I went and visited several of those pages individually to verify they stated what the Wiki entry claimed they said. Better to cross-check reputable sources and reference Wiki then post scientific pronouncements without any scientific backup at all
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Without carriers, we have no transmission, and therefore, no disease. I said failure to vaccinate creates carriers.

Show me yours, I'll show you mine. But now, back to the issue of whether or not physicians are ethically responsible for insuring that a patient has been vacinnated against bacterial meningitis prior to doing surgery..........
 
Hey, I'm not the one who threw out the red herring about Smallpox and Polio. Plus, I've already pointed you to the WHO research. I dare you to read it then find something reputable that refutes it.
jillio said:
Without carriers, we have no transmission, and therefore, no disease. I said failure to vaccinate creates carriers.

Show me yours, I'll show you mine. But now, back to the issue of whether or not physicians are ethically responsible for insuring that a patient has been vacinnated against bacterial meningitis prior to doing surgery..........
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