Respect for all

jackiesolorzano said:
I have a question for all. If I can respect people's choices to just use ASL then why can't people respect my choices to raise my deaf teenagers orally and have them implanted. I do not understand why some people think they have the right to tell me that it was not my right to implant my children. What is happening is that a lot of you are scaring new parents away from seeking information from people in the Deaf culture. Why can we not just agree to disagree and treat each other with respect. Why can't people just admit that cochlear implants can be a very valuable tool.
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I respect your decision, but read my post below. Please read about my own personal expierences.
 
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Now as for myself, I have to say oralism and ear surgeries was the worst things I ever expierenced. I spent 6 years in speech therapy because they could not understand why I was unable to talk properly. They failed to understand that I was deaf and the only things I was hearing was with residual hearing.

Latter on they learnt that I was deaf and they ended up expiermenting on me trying to figure out why I was unable to properly hear. At one point in their expiermenting they stuck metal rods in my ears taking pictures of it trying to see what they could fix. It was the worst thing I ever expierenced in my life.

They spent years studying my ears trying to fix me and after 15 different ear surgeries I end up just becoming hard of hearing and adventually to where I am now, deaf again.


I have attributed all my failures in life to all of that. These expierences were very traumatic and as a result I never learnt, as strange as it may sound, how to be deaf. I never learnt any of our languages, sign languages, or our deaf culture.

So for myself, from my own personal expierences, I have to disgaree with oralism and trying to fix a deaf people.
 
shel90 said:
Since this thread is about respect for all so if they want respect for all, then they should apply it to themselves too.
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I agree. But what do they know about respecting people who doesn't agree with them and actually had the temerity to demand our respect? *scoff*

Off topic, somewhat, I wonder why America, UK, Australia and others doesn't adopt Sweden's philosophy for the deaf. The irony is Sweden has been practicing this philosophy for over 20 years and rather successfully.
 
Miss-Delectable said:
I agree. But what do they know about respecting people who doesn't agree with them and actually had the temerity to demand our respect? *scoff*

Off topic, somewhat, I wonder why America, UK, Australia and others doesn't adopt Sweden's philosophy for the deaf. The irony is Sweden has been practicing this philosophy for over 20 years and rather successfully.
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Because the audists want to keep full control of Deaf education and keep it their way. :roll:
 
One of those days we'll kick the audists out into the cold and take back control of deaf education. It might not happen now, but later.
 
Its the deaf people, us, who are messing up deaf culture, deaf education, and everything else to do with deafness.
 
jasin said:
Its the deaf people, us, who are messing up deaf culture, deaf education, and everything else to do with deafness.
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Huh? Deaf people messed up Deaf culture, deaf education and everything else? Can you explain more because I am not understanding what you mean.
 
shel90 said:
Huh? Deaf people messed up Deaf culture, deaf education and everything else? Can you explain more because I am not understanding what you mean.
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Oh, I could make a whole list of things us deaf people do that is messing all this up.

Deafies who wont accept you as deaf or as a part of the deaf world if you are hard of hearing; even though, some hard of hearing are more deaf then some deaf. It happens all the time at deaf events. I see it at nearly every deaf event there is.

Heads of deaf events who expect you to bow to them and their demands whatever they may be. Many wont even talk to their fellow deafies unless they approve. I see it all the time!! They like to act high and mighty and better then everyone else.

Asl nazis who are deaf that wont even accept you as deaf if you don't sign 100% perfect or correct. They will reject you, ignore you, not even look at you, etc.. its happened to me personally many times. They ignore the fact that some deafs are still learning, some have disabilties, and some are just human .. not perfect and prone to making messing up.

Oral nazis who are deaf that try an force oralism on you and mandate there is only one way of communicating.. Speech, talk, voice, etc. They have infused this into our deaf schools and now have schools that don't even teach our language or other languages.
 
jasin said:
Oh, I could make a whole list of things us deaf people do that is messing all this up.

Deafies who wont accept you as deaf or as a part of the deaf world if you are hard of hearing; even though, some hard of hearing are more deaf then some deaf. It happens all the time at deaf events. I see it at nearly every deaf event there is.

Heads of deaf events who expect you to bow to them and their demands whatever they may be. Many wont even talk to their fellow deafies unless they approve. I see it all the time!! They like to act high and mighty and better then everyone else.

Asl nazis who are deaf that wont even accept you as deaf if you don't sign 100% perfect or correct. They will reject you, ignore you, not even look at you, etc.. its happened to me personally many times. They ignore the fact that some deafs are still learning, some have disabilties, and some are just human .. not perfect and prone to making messing up.

Oral nazis who are deaf that try an force oralism on you and mandate there is only one way of communicating.. Speech, talk, voice, etc. They have infused this into our deaf schools and now have schools that don't even teach our language or other languages.
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As in any group, there are "camps" and this is probably as it should be---choices of lifestyle; HOWEVER, when it comes to education, I think all of these "camps" within the culture have to have BILINGUALISM as the rallying cry, the central theme in the push for it. Thing of it is, that day of reckoning has been delayed by the hearing folks up in their ivory tower and by the extreme elements within these deaf "camps".
 
Tousi said:
As in any group, there are "camps" and this is probably as it should be---choices of lifestyle; HOWEVER, when it comes to education, I think all of these "camps" within the culture have to have BILINGUALISM as the rallying cry, the central theme in the push for it. Thing of it is, that day of reckoning has been delayed by the hearing folks up in their ivory tower and by the extreme elements within these deaf "camps".
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Thats fine, but when these things divide us, separate us, etc.. it destroys our educational systems and our culture.
 
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Tousi said:
As in any group, there are "camps" and this is probably as it should be---choices of lifestyle; HOWEVER, when it comes to education, I think all of these "camps" within the culture have to have BILINGUALISM as the rallying cry, the central theme in the push for it. Thing of it is, that day of reckoning has been delayed by the hearing folks up in their ivory tower and by the extreme elements within these deaf "camps".
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And, by and large, the ASLers campaign for bilingualism at a far greater rate than the oralists.

And, as far as the "camps" go, that can be seen in any culture. Is that to say that they are messing up thier own culture? I think not. It is their culture. If you want to be a part of any culture, you must, as an individual, adjust to the norms of that culture.

And let's not forget that oral only was never an idea proposed by deaf individuals. It was one that was forced upon deaf individuals by the hearing culture. Why? To be a part of hearing culture, it was expected that deaf individuals would adhere to the norms of hearing culture.
 
jillio said:
And, by and large, the ASLers campaign for bilingualism at a far greater rate than the oralists.

And, as far as the "camps" go, that can be seen in any culture. Is that to say that they are messing up thier own culture? I think not. It is their culture. If you want to be a part of any culture, you must, as an individual, adjust to the norms of that culture.

And let's not forget that oral only was never an idea proposed by deaf individuals. It was one that was forced upon deaf individuals by the hearing culture. Why? To be a part of hearing culture, it was expected that deaf individuals would adhere to the norms of hearing culture.
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Yeah, Jill the thing that "gets" me is after "adjusting to the norms of that culture", while sounding good only till you realize in the next breath that those norms, especially those of the oralists weren't sprouted by them. And then where do ya go?
 
Tousi said:
Yeah, Jill the thing that "gets" me is after "adjusting to the norms of that culture", while sounding good only till you realize in the next breath that those norms, especially those of the oralists weren't sprouted by them. And then where do ya go?
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Change the norms. Which, I think, is something that the Deaf Culture is attempting to do. But, in attempting to leave such norms as the "oralists" have shackeled them with for so many years, they are then seen as being exclusionary and closed. That is exactly what Deaf Prez Now back in 1988 was all about. Throwing off the shackles forced upon the deaf by the hearing and becoming empowered and self determining.
 
jillio said:
Change the norms. Which, I think, is something that the Deaf Culture is attempting to do. But, in attempting to leave such norms as the "oralists" have shackeled them with for so many years, they are then seen as being exclusionary and closed. That is exactly what Deaf Prez Now back in 1988 was all about. Throwing off the shackles forced upon the deaf by the hearing and becoming empowered and self determining.
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And, Jillio, to come to the current issue, please read the following. After reading the short intro, click on the image of the sheep/wolf: Dr. DonG.’s Deafhood Discourses » Let’s beware of “Wolves in Deaf-friendly clothing”! And the current 9 responses below....
 
jillio said:
LOL! I have to agree with the assessments of the text. History is being distorted.
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Hehe, Jillio, I think those few deaf extremists have their hearts in the right place; however, methinks that's not gonna get the job done.

Just as an aside, I don't know if I am a rare breed but my "English skills" such as they are, came from constantly reading on my own as I was coming up. I was involved in sports and the normal host of other things (meaning I wasn't a nerd, lol) coming up but was always reading something when I could. I think I achieved literacy this way vs auditory training and whatever it is they do for strict oralists these days. Remember, also, I grew up in the 50's.

Oh, and how is it Moores can get away from his blatant coloring, defamation, etc of Edward Miner Gallaudet?
 
jasin said:
Oh, I could make a whole list of things us deaf people do that is messing all this up.

Deafies who wont accept you as deaf or as a part of the deaf world if you are hard of hearing; even though, some hard of hearing are more deaf then some deaf. It happens all the time at deaf events. I see it at nearly every deaf event there is.

Heads of deaf events who expect you to bow to them and their demands whatever they may be. Many wont even talk to their fellow deafies unless they approve. I see it all the time!! They like to act high and mighty and better then everyone else.

Asl nazis who are deaf that wont even accept you as deaf if you don't sign 100% perfect or correct. They will reject you, ignore you, not even look at you, etc.. its happened to me personally many times. They ignore the fact that some deafs are still learning, some have disabilties, and some are just human .. not perfect and prone to making messing up.

Oral nazis who are deaf that try an force oralism on you and mandate there is only one way of communicating.. Speech, talk, voice, etc. They have infused this into our deaf schools and now have schools that don't even teach our language or other languages.
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As an educator for the deaf, I disagree with you on all points about deaf people messing up with deaf edcuation.

In those oral programs that I know of which is more than 10, all of them are run by hearing people not deaf oralists.

I used to be an oralists and I propose/support both BiBi and speech training for those who can benefit from it. I dont consider myself as messing up deaf education.

When I didnt know ASL, I didnt fit in at the Deaf events cuz I couldnt communicate with many of the deaf people there. I couldnt understand what was being said in the conversations cuz I didnt know the language. So, I learned ASL and now I am a part of the Deaf community. No, I am not friends with every single Deaf person and nor I click with every Deaf person cuz of different personalities and interests. Has nothing to do with how I was raised nor my oral skills.

The ones who rejected me simply because of how I was raised and my oral do not represent the whole Deaf community.
 
jillio said:
And, by and large, the ASLers campaign for bilingualism at a far greater rate than the oralists.

And, as far as the "camps" go, that can be seen in any culture. Is that to say that they are messing up thier own culture? I think not. It is their culture. If you want to be a part of any culture, you must, as an individual, adjust to the norms of that culture.

And let's not forget that oral only was never an idea proposed by deaf individuals. It was one that was forced upon deaf individuals by the hearing culture. Why? To be a part of hearing culture, it was expected that deaf individuals would adhere to the norms of hearing culture.
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Yea...many of ASLers campain for meeting halfway with giving kids all the tools but the oralists refuse to meet us halfway saying that AVT with ASL wouldnt be AVT. AVT and ASL do not have to be done togehter...duh!
 
shel90 said:
As an educator for the deaf, I disagree with you on all points about deaf people messing up with deaf edcuation.

In those oral programs that I know of which is more than 10, all of them are run by hearing people not deaf oralists.

I used to be an oralists and I propose/support both BiBi and speech training for those who can benefit from it. I dont consider myself as messing up deaf education.

When I didnt know ASL, I didnt fit in at the Deaf events cuz I couldnt communicate with many of the deaf people there. I couldnt understand what was being said in the conversations cuz I didnt know the language. So, I learned ASL and now I am a part of the Deaf community. No, I am not friends with every single Deaf person and nor I click with every Deaf person cuz of different personalities and interests. Has nothing to do with how I was raised nor my oral skills.

The ones who rejected me simply because of how I was raised and my oral do not represent the whole Deaf community.
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Yeah, thats really what I want. Some hearie teaching me their culture and their language and their methods of communication. I already went through that when I was in grade school. Go back an reread my original post for the downsides on that.
 
jasin said:
Yeah, thats really what I want. Some hearie teaching me their culture and their language and their methods of communication. I already went through that when I was in grade school. Go back an reread my original post for the downsides on that.
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U said it was deaf people screwing up with Deaf ed?
 
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