Religion and Abortion
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jillio
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It is only considered to be a premature birth if it takes place well into the 3rd trimester. No fetuses delivered at 4 or 5 months of gestation survive, and very, very few delivered into the 6 and 7 months survive.
I understand where you are coming from. I just want you to understand where I am coming from, too. I certainly don't have the answers for everything.
jillio
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In my religion, there is pretty significant debate in regards to what point abortion is allowed. Since there is no explicit mention of abortion in Holy text, it's very difficult to come to a universal conclusion on if and when a Muslim is allowed to abort.
The Qur'an does tell us "kill not your children..." Thus, e ssentially, most of us believe (myself included) that abortion is allowed until such point we call the fetus our "child" or when it is believed to have a -soul-. People's views generally range from 40 to 120 days. Thus, although a fetus is not created with a soul, when it is believed to have a soul, it is murder and not abortion. Abortion might be allowed past that point, if there is no chance of the child surviving and it is a risk to the mother's health.
We believe in guarding life whenever possible, but all the same, God doesn't make life needlessly difficult for us. We are only faced with what we can handle.
Thank you for the explanation from a Muslim point of view. It would appear that your religion does consider the issue of viability in determining the difference between a fetus and a baby.I thought 5 months is 20 weeks, cause I read somewhere that says some 20-24 weeks fetus had survived while the others didn't.
Ahh I found a link, (looking for more)
Why Can't We Love Them Both? On Line Book by Dr. and Mrs. Willke.
The Cellar Image of the Day
FOXNews.com - Doctors Extend Hospital Stay of Tiniest Premature Baby - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News
If You Are Pregnant - Fetal Development
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jillio
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Fetal and placental viability is most often assessed in the third trimester, when the rapidly-growing fetus places greatest demands on the placenta. These tests are particularly useful in high risk pregnancies (maternal diabetes, hypertension, and other disorders including substance abuse) and in the evaluation of intrauterine growth retardation. The most common assessment for fetal viability is the correlation between fetal heart rate and fetal movement (the nonstress test). In cases where more information is needed, measurement of estriol and/or placental lactogen in maternal serum, particularly in serial specimens, can be used to monitor fetal status.
Fetal/Placental Viability
Abortion and Fetal Viability
In the 1973 ROE V. WADE decision, which established the right to abortion throughout the United States, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the constitutional right to privacy extends to the decision of a woman, in consultation with her physician, to terminate a pregnancy. That right, according to the court in Roe, is not absolute and must be balanced against the state's legitimate interest in protecting both the health of the pregnant woman and the developing human life. According to ROE, at the point of fetal viability (when the fetus has the capacity for sustained survival outside the uterus), the state's interest in protecting potential life becomes compelling, and the state may proscribe abortion, except when necessary to preserve the woman's life or health. In PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF CENTRAL MISSOURI V. DANFORTH(1) (1976) and COLAUTTI V. FRANKLIN(2) (1979), the Supreme Court made clear that viability is a medical determination, which varies with each pregnancy, and that it is the responsibility of the attending physician to make that determination.
These principles are embodied in the laws of most states. Forty states have enacted legislation severely limiting abortions after fetal viability. Laws in 32 states limit abortions after viability to cases in which the woman's life at serious risk or her health is endangered, although five of the 32 also permit abortions in cases of fetal defect. Laws in seven states permit abortions after viability only when the woman's life is endangered; California is the only state where laws ban late abortions for any reason.(3)
What Is Fetal Viability?
A fetus is viable when it reaches an "anatomical threshold" when critical organs, such as the lungs and kidneys, can sustain independent life. Until the air sacs are mature enough to permit gases to pass into and out of the bloodstream, which is extremely unlikely until at least 23 weeks gestation (from last menstrual period), a fetus cannot be sustained even with a respirator, which can force air into the lungs but cannot pass gas from the lungs into the bloodstream.(4)
While medical advances have increased the survival of infants born between 24 and 28 weeks of gestation, the point of viability has moved little over the past decade; at the earliest, it remains at approximately 24 weeks, where it was when the Supreme Court decided Roe -- a fact acknowledged by the court in its recent decision in PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF SOUTHEASTERN PENNSYLVANIA V. CASEY.(5) A study of infant survival by researchers at Case Western Reserve University Medical School found that the rate of survival for infants born before 25 weeks gestation has not improved appreciably in recent years.(6)
According to a brief submitted to the Supreme Court in WEBSTER V. REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH SERVICES(7) by more than 150 distinguished scientists and physicians, "There are no medical developments anticipated in the foreseeable future that would bring about adequate fetal lung function prior to 23 or 24 weeks of gestation."(8)
Abortion and Fetal Viability - Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California
Perinatology is the medical subspecialty concerned with the mother and fetus from the time of viability outside the uterus, generally the last three months of normal gestation (the third trimester) to about one month after birth.
Perinatology is the medical subspecialty concerned with the mother and fetus from the time of viability outside the uterus, generally the last three months of normal gestation (the third trimester) to about one month after birth.
Volume 329:1597-1601 November 25, 1993 Number 22
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The Limit of Viability -- Neonatal Outcome of Infants Born at 22 to 25 Weeks' Gestation
Marilee C. Allen, Pamela K. Donohue, and Amy E. Dusman
Abstract
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ABSTRACT
Background With improved survival of preterm infants, questions have been raised about the limit of viability. To provide better information and counseling for parents of infants about to be delivered after 22 to 25 weeks' gestation, we evaluated the mortality and neonatal morbidity of preterm infants born at these gestational ages.
Methods We studied retrospectively all 142 infants born at 22 to 25 weeks' gestation (as judged by best obstetrical estimate) from May 1988 through September 1991 in a single hospital. Mortality in the first six months, including stillbirths, and neonatal morbidity (i.e., the presence of intracranial pathologic conditions, chronic lung disease, and retinopathy of prematurity) were analyzed.
Results Fifty-six infants (39 percent) survived for six months. Survival improved with increasing gestational age; none of 29 infants born at 22 weeks' gestation survived, as compared with 6 of 40 (15 percent) born at 23 weeks, 19 of 34 (56 percent) born at 24 weeks, and 31 of 39 (79 percent) born at 25 weeks. There were seven stillbirths at 22 weeks' gestation and four stillbirths at 23 weeks. The more immature the infant, the higher the incidence of neonatal complications as determined by the number of days of mechanical ventilation, the length of the hospital stay, and the presence of retinopathy of prematurity, periventricular or intraventricular hemorrhage, or periventricular leukomalacia. Only 2 percent of infants born at 23 weeks' gestation survived without severe abnormalities on cranial ultrasonography, as compared with 21 percent of those born at 24 weeks and 69 percent of those born at 25 weeks.
Conclusions We believe that aggressive resuscitation of infants born at 25 weeks' gestation is indicated, but not of those born at 22 weeks. Whether the occasional child who is born at 23 or 24 weeks' gestation and does well justifies the considerable mortality and morbidity of the majority is a question that should be discussed by parents, health care providers, and society.
NEJM -- The Limit of Viability -- Neonatal Outcome of Infants Born at 22 to 25 Weeks' Gestation
Doctors Extend Hospital Stay of Tiniest Premature Baby
MIAMI — The world's smallest premature baby will remain in the hospital a few more days as a precaution, hospital officials said Tuesday. Born at just under 22 weeks gestation on Oct. 24, Amillia Sonja Taylor is the world's youngest surviving premature baby.
Barbara Moore, spokeswoman for Baptist Children's Hospital, said she did not have further details on why the doctors changed their mind about sending Amillia Sonja Taylor home Tuesday.
Doctors say Amillia is the first baby known to survive after a gestation period of fewer than 23 weeks. She was just 9 1/2 inches long and weighed less than 10 ounces when she was born Oct. 24. She was delivered after just under 22 weeks of pregnancy; full-term births come after 37 to 40 weeks.
The baby has suffered respiratory and digestive problems, as well as a mild brain hemorrhage, but doctors believe the health concerns will not have major long-term effects.
"Her prognosis is excellent," said Dr. Paul Fassbach, who has cared for Amillia since her second day.
Amillia was conceived in vitro and has been in an incubator since birth. She has received oxygen and will continue to get a small amount even after she goes home.
She is the first child for Eddie and Sonja Taylor of Homestead. She was delivered by Caesarean section and now weighs about 4 1/2 pounds and is just over 15 1/2 inches long. Previously doctors stated she was about 25 inches long.
To view the pictures, click this link FOXNews.com - Doctors Extend Hospital Stay of Tiniest Premature Baby - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News
"We just don't know which 21- to 22-weekers are going to do well and which are not going to do well," he said. "I don't think we should change what we do, but it shows us we need to do more research and find out where our edge of viability is going to go."
Preterm births occur in about 12 percent of all pregnancies in the U.S., according to the National Institutes of Health.
FOXNews.com - World's Tiniest Baby Needs More Time in Hospital - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News
MIAMI — The world's smallest premature baby will remain in the hospital a few more days as a precaution, hospital officials said Tuesday. Born at just under 22 weeks gestation on Oct. 24, Amillia Sonja Taylor is the world's youngest surviving premature baby.
Barbara Moore, spokeswoman for Baptist Children's Hospital, said she did not have further details on why the doctors changed their mind about sending Amillia Sonja Taylor home Tuesday.
Doctors say Amillia is the first baby known to survive after a gestation period of fewer than 23 weeks. She was just 9 1/2 inches long and weighed less than 10 ounces when she was born Oct. 24. She was delivered after just under 22 weeks of pregnancy; full-term births come after 37 to 40 weeks.
The baby has suffered respiratory and digestive problems, as well as a mild brain hemorrhage, but doctors believe the health concerns will not have major long-term effects.
"Her prognosis is excellent," said Dr. Paul Fassbach, who has cared for Amillia since her second day.
Amillia was conceived in vitro and has been in an incubator since birth. She has received oxygen and will continue to get a small amount even after she goes home.
She is the first child for Eddie and Sonja Taylor of Homestead. She was delivered by Caesarean section and now weighs about 4 1/2 pounds and is just over 15 1/2 inches long. Previously doctors stated she was about 25 inches long.
To view the pictures, click this link FOXNews.com - Doctors Extend Hospital Stay of Tiniest Premature Baby - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News
"We just don't know which 21- to 22-weekers are going to do well and which are not going to do well," he said. "I don't think we should change what we do, but it shows us we need to do more research and find out where our edge of viability is going to go."
Preterm births occur in about 12 percent of all pregnancies in the U.S., according to the National Institutes of Health.
FOXNews.com - World's Tiniest Baby Needs More Time in Hospital - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News
And Jillio I believe in miracles and prayers. Technology has improved now then it was back in 1993-1997 as what you posted from these links. It shows that doctors believe it is impossible to save 20-24 weeks fetus but I believe nothing is impossible.
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jillio
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Preterm births are any birth that occurs prior to the projected delivery date. If a baby is born only 2 weeks before the date expected, it is still considered a pre-term birth.
Viability continues up to 6 months after birth. As this child was only born 4 months ago, we don't know that she will continue to survive. Obviously, she is still experiencing difficulties, as she is continuing with oxygen.
jillio
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The technology used for premature infants has not changed much in these years.
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Yes like what I explained Askjo in my previous post that it´s rare to save fetus´s life after early c-section or push fetus out of mother´s womb to save mother´s risk life. The reason why I am against to have partial-birth abortion after 12 weeks because after 12 weeks are too big for fetus removal (long and thin spoon). If after 12 weeks, then do something is push fetus out of mother´s womb (between 4 and 6 months) or c-section (more than 6 or 7 months). It´s rare to save more than 20 weeks old fetus´s life.
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It´s interesting to read the debate posts between Jillos and Angel... wow
GarnetTigerMom
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I have to agree with you on that becasue you are correct that the technology that been used for prematires premies babies does ot always work great, their machine don't always help very much expect trying to keep them alive as long as they could. But the babies that born pre-mature are more likey to have healthy problems. I agree on your statment.
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I have to agree with you on that becasue you are correct that the technology that been used for prematires premies babies does ot always work great, their machine don't always help very much expect trying to keep them alive as long as they could. But the babies that born pre-mature are more likey to have healthy problems. I agree on your statment.
Yes, true.
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Interesting, I didnt know that. Both of my kids were born 2 weeks before the due date.
A pregnant woman gets murdered along with her unborn. The perp would be charged with double murder due to the fact that the pregnant woman wanted to keep her unborn.
*******
I'm missing a point?
Not offense but so are many of the pro-lifers on the AD forum! Everyone is splitting hairs on this issue and this issue will never be resolved.
You're pro-life--I respect that. Guess what sweetie? I'm pro-choice. Got to live and learn and respect that too.
As far as I'm concerned it's up to the individual to make an informed decision if they want to keep the baby, give the baby up for adoption or to abort.
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A pregnant woman gets murdered along with her unborn. The perp would be charged with double murder due to the fact that the pregnant woman wanted to keep her unborn.
*******
I'm missing a point?
Everyone is splitting hairs on this issue and this issue will never be resolved.
You're pro-life--I respect that. Guess what sweetie? I'm pro-choice. Got to live and learn and respect that too.
As far as I'm concerned it's up to the individual to make an informed decision if they want to keep the baby, give the baby up for adoption or to abort.
There will always be pro-life and pro-choice...people are gonna do what they feel is right for them whethers others like it or not.
A pregnant woman gets murdered along with her unborn. The perp would be charged with double murder due to the fact that the pregnant woman wanted to keep her unborn.
*******
I'm missing a point?
Everyone is splitting hairs on this issue and this issue will never be resolved.
You're pro-life--I respect that. Guess what sweetie? I'm pro-choice. Got to live and learn and respect that too.
As far as I'm concerned it's up to the individual to make an informed decision if they want to keep the baby, give the baby up for adoption or to abort.
Wow, I um... am speechless
I'm really sorry you feel this way, I won't even bother posting in anymore abortion threads, thanks to you for judging me when you haven't been in AD long enough to read most of my posts in several abortions threads. Take care:walk away quietly:
GarnetTigerMom
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There will always be pro-life and pro-choice...people are gonna do what they feel is right for them whethers others like it or not.
You got that right. So, I agree with you 110%.
GarnetTigerMom
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A pregnant woman gets murdered along with her unborn. The perp would be charged with double murder due to the fact that the pregnant woman wanted to keep her unborn.
*******
I'm missing a point?
Everyone is splitting hairs on this issue and this issue will never be resolved.
You're pro-life--I respect that. Guess what sweetie? I'm pro-choice. Got to live and learn and respect that too.
As far as I'm concerned it's up to the individual to make an informed decision if they want to keep the baby, give the baby up for adoption or to abort.
Good posting!
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Please don't feel bad Angel. There are plenty of people whose hearts and minds do understand and support your viewpoint.Wow, I um... am speechless
:walk away quietly:
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