Questions for Taylor

[MsGiglz]

Hi Taylor,
since you are working with law enforcement, and you are hearing..
I would like to know what your thoughts of this? thank you.. and its open discussions to all.. too... since I have been pressured by deafies in MN that I should make lawsuit, I told them that I moved on and we all made mistakes.. they said MIRA is required and an interpreter is required too..

Here the story... (some of you (aders) knew about this)...
Fall of 2002, 6 of us (kids & my man) drove 45 mintues south of MN to meet our oldest daughter for weekend.. (at around 6pm) while we waited in the van at gas station.. I took 2 kids with me to go in station to go restroom. I bumped policewoman.. I said Excuse me and we exchanged smiles.. she looked at the kids & laughed cuz my son said something funny.. after we done.. We went back in the van and our oldest daughter came.. (there were 4 squads behind the station), We also, were planning to see my brother's to meet their first baby... We were pulling out the driveway from station.. there was a squad car started to follow me.. about more than 5 mintues, I found out that squad car was sheriff after he drove pass me then slowed down and went behind me.. start their lights flashin... I pulled over and puzzled.. I was driving the speed limit, my van is little noisy (muffler) but it wasnt "that" loud, all lights checked.. so I wonder why he pulled me over.. so I stayed calm, let him know that I am deaf and can read lips/speak well.. he said driver license please.. I pulled out my DL and he asked my man DL.. (that's odd to me)(I watched Cops on tv alot), Whatever asked for passager for DL means something wrong.. so my man puzzled too.. my 4 months old baby started to cry.. my oldest daughter tried to comfort and took him out.. gave to me, I start to patted baby's back, he burped same time sheriff came back and asked me to put baby back.. and step out the van.. I followed his command without show guility or scared but nervous (ofc)... He walked me around behind the van.. with all those kids looked at me and scared & worried.. He saw that and was very uncomfortable, same time the 3 more squads came.. there's same policewomen i bumped into at gas station.. she smiled and greet, having problem? I said I dont know what's going on.. she said.. Oh let me find out.. Sheriff said something to her, she looked at me and puzzled.. then talked to my oldest daughter to see if she can interpret, when my oldest daughter walked around, I told them.. its unacceptable because she is my family and she is not an interpreter and this is serious business that she doesnt need to know.. they said oh.. good point and true.. so the policewoman tried to tell the kids to calm down cuz they were crying and screaming.. Sheriff and She asked me to cooperative.. I said yes.. but may i ask, what did i do wrong? Sheriff wrote down and talked to my man .. didnt talk direct to me.. so my man shocked and confused, (go like wtf but remain calm as we know that if we made wrong move, it will make big sence)... while sheriff asked me to follow him to his squad car.. my man signed to me "you have warrant for theft check--bail is 1,000" I was surprised and shocked.. I broke down in the squad cuz of the kids still screaming and crying that they told them that I had to go police department.. While I was in the sheriff squad.. I dont have cuffs on.. I have my purse with me.. and there is a box next to me filled with pencils and notepads.. I was thinking myself.. how can they trust me even they dont know me.. what if I have knife or gun in my purse.. or.. pencil that i can take and stab him with window wide (between seats).. even didnt do MIRA or checked me out to make sure I dont have any weapons or drugs.. anyway... I went in the police dept.. Whoa, there was a big tough lady with no emotion!!.. she scoffed and stiffed me up to checked me out.. I tried not to restaint.. cuz I want to KNOW why or what theft check (am not that kind of person to be like that).. after i sat down the desk and asked me questions my DOB & SS and current address.. and asked me if i have other names, I said no.. she puzzled and furiously working on computer-- said to me do you have any other records.. I said not that I know of and all I know that I have -clean- record, she said yes but just that warrant, then I told her, Please get me an interpreter.. she looked at me, said nothing.. pointed to the holding cell room.. said. Go in there!.. I went in there.. there are 5 women (older than me).. i broke down and confused.. we started to chatting with women.. I am glad that I had FUN with them and they arent (serious) criminals.. whew.. Also, more than 4 times.. I asked for an interpreter.. they didnt do anything.. (I went in police dept at 7:15pm friday-- finally got mugshot at 4am saturday and put me jail and my mom bailed me out at 12pm saturday).. But my point.. it still baffled me, what did the sheriff pull me over for? speeding? or something.. I know that they cant just pull me over and slap me to go jail.. but my man said that sheriff was in the squad, look bored .. maybe he just checked our van license and found out that i have warrant.. and didnt do MIRA before I went in sheriff's squad car.. but like I said, they asked for cooperative.. so.. what do you think about this? by the way... I went to court to get things straight out and it was old check from previous ex husband (7 years ago).. wow.. so I paid to get over with.. It still haunt me once in while and kind of ruin my repubation and kids too.. whatever they see police.. they held me or by me like they dont want they take me again.. I keep telling them its over and they did their job.. In my mind, I would like to have those polices apologize to my kids and are not mad at me, just go by law that what they have to do..
(taylor-- after you read and think its worth to post with your reply, I will copy and paste and post in which section --you tell me which section and what topic?) lol.. thanks again
~annie

 

[Taylor]

Sorry to hear about your experience, but I think I have an idea what happened. If you want to post your question in the forum, please feel free to as comments would be welcome.

What you went through is a common procedure (for hearies and deaf). It is routine for officers to run tags of vehicles randomly to determine if the tags or the vehicle is stolen. This is how a lot of stolen vehicles are recovered.

What I *believe* happened (and I'm only guessing as I was there), the sheriff ran the tag of your van at random. Some police computer systems located in the police cars (and ours are like this too) bring back the vehicle information. It will also automatically run a 'wanted' check on the registered owner of the vehicle. My guess is that your name is on the registration and/or you are the registered owner of the vehicle. I'd like to point out that he could have also done this over his 2-way radio so don't be worried if there was no computer in his car.

After he runs your tag, it returns the registered owner information. It will generally return your drivers license info (making sure you are valid) and it will also check for any warrants of the registered owner(s). In your case, a warrant came back. Now, what he needs to do is make sure you fit the description of the registered owner. Lets say the information on his computer says you are a (and this is an example) a white female, 5 feet 10 inch 165 lbs and your date of birth is June 15th, 1973. So, he pulls up besides you and looks...he sees that you are a white female, approximate 31yrs old and your height and weight are close (as far as he can see looking into your vehicle).
So, you are now a close match for the warrant....so he pulls you over.

He gets your drivers license and he has to 'confirm' the warrant (make sure the warrant truly exists and their department has the paperwork). In this case, it is also customary to check the id on passengers to make sure there too are no open warrants. He also probably did this to make sure your man had a valid license to drive.

The delay you experienced on the side of the road was them confirming the warrant to make sure it existed and that they were allowed to serve it to you.
Once the warrant was confirmed, you were placed into custody. Now, I cannot fathom why he did not handcuff you...it is our policy to handcuff everyone who is taken in. My guess is that he kind of felt for you...pulling you over with all of the kids, etc. He made a judgement that this situation was stressing you out (and your family) and that it was best not to handcuff you even though you were taken into custody.

Something to keep in mind about the handcuffing is the reason he pulled you over. Remember, he doesn't know your deaf, he doesn't know family status, etc. All he is going on is he randomly ran a tag and the driver came back wanted. Once he stopped you, he cannot let you go. I think he felt for you and decided not to handcuff you.

Once you were taken into custody, you were now entering beaurcracy and the period of time it takes to process a subject. Unfortunately, this takes time no matter what jurisdiction it is in. It can take longer in some instances. For example, was the warrant through another county or jurisdiction? If so, a copy would need to be obtained for them to serve you.

So, IMO nothing was done incorrectly. Albeit it was embarassing for you, you do have to remember that you did have a warrant out for you and you were considered a wanted person. As you saw, the warrant was legit. I also think the officer felt for you as for 1) not cuffing you and 2) the treatment of your man. He could have placed the entire family into a taxi (or taken them to the station and put them in a cab...at your expense). He then could have impounded the van because you were driving. He was being nice and just wanted to have the warrant taken care of.

Now, as for him not reading your Miranda Rights, I'd like to clarify something for both you and the AD public. Police are NOT required to Mirandize you. This is a misconception from Police shows on Television. The only time you need to be mirandized is when the person is in custody and questioned for something in related to that crime. For example, they arrest somebody for a bank robbery. That person would need to be mirandized because questions are being asked about the crime, such as 'did you do it'...'who was your accomplice'...'where did you steal the getaway car from'.

Now, in your case, you were not questioned about a crime. If you had a warrant, it means you have already been charged with the crime. At this point, the police agencies job is to just process you. They will ask you questions about your name, address, and other common questions. They will not ask you "Did you steal the checks from _______ dresser drawyer?'
They may ask you questions like 'Did you know you had a warrant?'

You weren't interrogated about the crime, therefore they are not required to read you your rights.

Another example of this is a drunken disorderly person. Let say officers are on foot in a downtown area that has lots of bars. Lets say they are walking and see some sort of disturbance ahead. They get there and it is a bar bouncer and a drunk guy yelling at each other. The officer tells the the drunk guy to start walking. The guy refuses. The officer tells him again to start walking and the guy shouts at the officer to 'Go F*** yourself'. The officer then cuffs him and takes him into custody. The officer does not have read him his rights because he isn't questioning him about a crime. He takes him into custody and charges him with disorderly conduct, etc. He is processed and then released...Because he wasn't interrogated, his rights don't havet to be read. Had the guy pulled a gun on the bouncer or robbed the bar, then yes...his rights would be read because he would be questioned about that crime.

 

[kuifje75]

Taylor, even with no questioning going on, don't you think the police department should have owed her at least the courtesy of getting an interpreter and explaining things clearly to her? After all, she said it was her husband who informed her, and she was confused about it.

 

[Taylor]

Yes...if she requested it, IMO she should have received one. I don't, however, feel that there would be a successful lawsuit in this.

Perhaps one of the terps here can chime in with their thoughts. My belief is (and again, I wasn't there) that once she had pencil/paper there was effective communication. On the side of the road, however, it would be difficult to explain the warrant (at that point, the officer probably didn't know what it was for).

so I stayed calm, let him know that I am deaf and can read lips/speak well..

pointed to the holding cell room.. said. Go in there!.. I went in there.. there are 5 women (older than me).. i broke down and confused.. we started to chatting with women.. I am glad that I had FUN with them and they arent (serious) criminals.. whew..

I point those out because it was apparent that there was successful communication. I'm not defending the officers, because she said she requested an interpreter 4 times. IMO, she should have received that.

Can a terp (Reba) chime in with some comments?

 

[Cheri]

From what I have gather from her information, She stated that she wasn't doing anything wrong for the Police to pull her over to the side of the curb. I mean as far as I know that the Police has to pull you over if you done something wrong in order to pull you over? I also don't understand why the police did not do what she had requested for an interpreter? If the police has a question to the person, he is taking to the police station, He should communcate with her not the boyfriend or the daughter. I think a big mistake on the Police part is that, number one, pulling you over when you done anything wrong, not providing her an interpreter, communicating with another party beside her.

 

[Kalista]

Absolutely, I would go to see State Disability Law Center to find an attorney to lawsuit that police station. They know about session 504 ADA law. There is no excuse for ignore your request an interpreter to communication with them.

They put you in jail for several hours without information or details about your criminal. I would be piss off and feel bad for those children become extremely upset and worry about their mother goes to the jail by mistake.

That is DISGUSTED because police did not response your question what kind criminal was ?? Their communication barrier is SUCKS !! They IGNORED for your right to getting an interpreter.

LAWSUIT THEM !!

 

[Taylor]

Cheri,
As I had pointed out, my impression is that he was running random tags. This is common practice among police agencies. When a cop is sitting behind you at a traffic light, chances are he is running your plate.

If their system is set up like ours, when he ran the tag, he got the warrant hit on the registered owner (her). She matched the description so he could stop her. There is also the possibility that he could have pulled her over one something else but didn't pursue it. It could have been the loud muffler she mentioned...maybe she didn't use a turn signal when pulling out of the gas station. It could have been something else, but my guess is was because of the warrant hit.

Again, I can't defend the denied interpreter so I won't go there.

 

[Taylor]

Sabrina,
I don't think she would be successful in a lawsuit, however I'll research it and see what precedent I can find as far as court cases go.

I would be piss off and feel bad for those children become extremely upset and worry about their mother goes to the jail by mistake.

She wasn't carted off to jail by mistake. She had (and admits) she was a wanted person. Even for theft of a check that happened 7 years ago, there was still a warrant for her arrest.

 

[horselover61]

Taylor is right. I agree with him. I was arrested once cuz my step daughter called the cop on me. I didnt do anything to her and she lies. So I got arrestted then when I went to the police dept and was told that I had a warrant for my arrest. I was shocked and then I found out why. GRRRRRRRRR at my exh for not taking care of it. Cuz at that time it happened I was preggy and at home not working. So the only income was from my exh and I told him to go to the store and make the payment and he didnt do it. So the next day went to court and took care of it. Yes the police did Miranda Rights to me cuz it involved Assault and Battery on a child. So the court dismissed the case cuz they found out she lies.

So that is over and done and I am staying out of trouble cuz she is not allow to be near me ever again. BTW she was 10 at that time.

Yea I know how you feel MsGiglz. I am glad u have taken care of that Warrant and move on with your life.

 

[TweetyBird]

whoa! i cant believe that happened to u! shit! wow! it shocked me! i am very sowwy it happened u and made u feel alike not know whats hell going on.. if i were u i will same thing!!!

 

[Cheri]

Cheri,
As I had pointed out, my impression is that he was running random tags. This is common practice among police agencies. When a cop is sitting behind you at a traffic light, chances are he is running your plate.

If their system is set up like ours, when he ran the tag, he got the warrant hit on the registered owner (her). She matched the description so he could stop her. There is also the possibility that he could have pulled her over one something else but didn't pursue it. It could have been the loud muffler she mentioned...maybe she didn't use a turn signal when pulling out of the gas station. It could have been something else, but my guess is was because of the warrant hit

I understand about random tags but, I thought they have to pull you over for something you did first like breaking traffic laws before checking the random tags? And beside the Police did not tell her why he pulled her over at the begin, All he said to her was

driver license please

He never gave her a reason for pulling her over, Which is wrong upon the police doing.

 

[knightwolf68]

ok little off the topics .... once i recall that day i was pull over by the cops for some reasons ... and i pull my wallet out and i have shown the cop the card say " J88" I am sure that ur familiar with that code .. and I have notice that cop was laugh about that ... it make me think that they think it is jokes or something ... must be somewhat joke words round the "cop community" would u like to share with us about this jokes it make me so curious otherwise i do appericate that these cop who i talk with was very copperation with me by write and pad to commuicate as well as i know that we can't get interipter that quick as it should be for that simple reasons .. but i just curious about these reaction from " cop community" about J88

 

[Cheri]

ok little off the topics .... once i recall that day i was pull over by the cops for some reasons ... and i pull my wallet out and i have shown the cop the card say " J88" I am sure that ur familiar with that code .. and I have notice that cop was laugh about that ... it make me think that they think it is jokes or something ... must be somewhat joke words round the "cop community" would u like to share with us about this jokes it make me so curious otherwise i do appericate that these cop who i talk with was very copperation with me by write and pad to commuicate as well as i know that we can't get interipter that quick as it should be for that simple reasons .. but i just curious about these reaction from " cop community" about J88

I don't know what is "J88" stands for? What does it mean?

 

[Fly Free]

I don't know what is "J88" stands for? What does it mean?

there was a discussion abt that -- it would inform the officers that we are deaf drivers -- in some states there are "J88" on the licenses to warn officers that the owner of the car is deaf

 

[Taylor]

I'm not aware of that card or that term. My assumption is that it is local to your area/state. I'll ask around and see if somebody is familar with it but I'm not. I did find this, at least for the state of MO

Regardless, I don't know why they would laugh at you for having it. Could they have been laughing at something else?

 

[DreamDeaf]

J88

Title 12—DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
Division 10—Director of Revenue
Chapter 24—Driver's License Bureau Rules

Original rule filed May 24, 2001, effective Dec. 30, 2001.
*Original authority: 302.755, RSMo 1989, amended 1995.

12 CSR 10-24.470 Procedure for Obtaining a “J88” Notation on a Driver's License for Deafness or Hard of Hearing

PURPOSE: This rule establishes the procedures for an individual to obtain a “J88” (Deaf or Hard of Hearing) notation on a driver's license as provided in section 302.174, RSMo.

(1) An applicant for a driver's license, nondriver’s license, or permit may request that a notation be placed on the applicant’s license, non-driver's license or permit which indicates that the person is deaf or hard of hearing. For purposes of this rule such notation shall be shown as “J88” on the license or permit document.

(2) In order to obtain the “J88” notation an applicant at the time of application for an initial, renewal or duplicate license, non-driver's license or permit shall inform the license office personnel completing the transaction of his or her intent to have the notation displayed on the license, non-driver's license or permit. In addition, the applicant shall provide one of the following documents which indicates that the person is deaf or hard of hearing:

(A) Medical statement from a licensed medical professional;

(B) Statement from an approved or authorized agency as indicated in section (3) of this rule; or

(C) Certified affidavit form, incorporated by reference, shall be used when an applicant certifies that he or she is deaf or hearing impaired.

(3) Agencies or programs authorized to provide documentation that a license, non-driver's license or permit applicant is deaf or hearing impaired shall include but not be limited to the following:

(A) The Missouri Commission for the Deaf;

(B) Social Security Administration;

(C) A vocational rehabilitation program;

(D) A federal, state or county department of health; or

(E) An independent living center.

(4) The director of revenue shall have authorization to review and determine acceptability of any documentation from an agency or program not listed in section (3) of this rule.

AUTHORITY: section 302.174, RSMo Supp. 2001.
* Original rule filed Nov. 15, 2001, effective May 30, 2002.
*Original authority: 302.174, RSMo 2001.

 

[TweetyBird]

wow i never heard abt that!!258! thanks for put here so it explain more clear!

 

[Cheri]

Oh interesting, Thanks for the information FlyFree and DreamDeaf, I don't think Ohio has one like that, not that I know of. All I have on my driver's License is have two mirrors, and is a driver who wears contact lenses.

 

[DreamDeaf]

I dont even know how effective this is, I dont have it on my drivers license...I just keep a interpreting agency card with my drivers license and I request an interpreter whenever soemthing like this happens.

As for you Anniegiglz, I hope everything has worked out for the best for you...this is one experinece that no one should have to go through, especially a mother with five babies...no way. Or is it six now?

 

[knightwolf68]

one night it happen to me which scare me to death ... i was walk through bad area negibor to visit my friend over that area as well as i didn't know that the cop was behind me as the cop was attack me like football player do as i was fall down and freak me out as my face was almost hit the cement on the sidewalk as i was confused whats going on ... and i told them whoooaaa time out as i use my voice and i have to use the body languages as my finger point my hear in the sign languages deaf ... as the cop was jump up and realize what they have done to me ... i did file complaint against them and told them to use the lightflash on sidewalk so the deaf ppl would know someone is trying to tell them to stop as it would work that way ... does all cop was trained for that ??? if not then i suggest ya to do it in the case just say voice first like " freeze " or " stop there " whateveru say and see what is their reaction and not stop at all then use the light flash and it would have been work that way ... thanks god that there is no break my neck or ribs or something like that ...