Question

[jillio]

I was joking jillio .. of course, this isn't a therapy.. only sharing in a friendly way

Yeah, I knew you were joking. So was I about it being a session on clarification.

 

[Raykat]

I would think so..that the CI improves sound perception. What is the big deal here with everyone arguing? I am lost. It makes sense that a CI is a listening or hearing device/aid. Why do some people take offensive to that? It is just a generic definition.

To be quite honest Shel I cant understand why jillio even asked the original question. I have read over it several time still cant see the point. Yes HA is an assistive device, yes CI is an assistive device, both help with sound perception, maybe one helps better than others depending on the hearing loss and person involved........so..........point of question please??????

 

[Raykat]

I really don't know why you insist on nitpicking about what the Ha and Ci do. Yes they both help one hear. (perceive sound)

The results with both devices will vary from person to person. (even from ear to ear) I don't believe anyone has ever denied that.

Successful outcomes with both are a matter of perception, which is very individual. And we have never said differently.

All we have said is the devices do not work in the same way to deliver that sound perception. Thus one gives a much clearer sound. Yes results will vary and length of time without access to sound and mode of communication while not hearing sound will probably have impact on the results. And we have never said that results will not vary.

 

[TechBill]

You know your trying to debate with folks whom actually have experience both HA and CI in their lifetime while some of you never even experience using either devices. Why try to tell us otherwise? We experience it We know it We point it out to you, it can't be any simplier than that.

Like I said in another thread, lot of experiences we experienced in our life cannot be put in words or described on paper.

We CIers are probably hearing every sounds that is out there with CI but we are not sure what they are because we have not yet learn what the sounds are unlike the younger generation CIers that have a lifetime learning with CI will be able to determine the sounds better than who have been implanted as an adult.

With HA your not gonna hear lots of sound if your hair cell is so badly damaged because it not there to pick up the sound to begin with and the remaining cells that aren't so badly damage will pick up using HA ampflication but it will be just a distorted sound.

Let me give you one experience example. Some of you may know car turn signal give off some clicking sound to alert the driver that they have a turn signal enabled but I could never hear it with my hearing aid. My family would tell me that my turn signal is blinking and I would look at the dashboard and realized that I forgot to turn if off after I change lane then I would ask them the first time how they know I left it on they tell me that it make some type of clicking sound but my HA was the most powerful I could get and I was hearing lots and lots and lots of sounds with my HA but with my HA fully turn up to the max I still cannot hear that damn clicker from the turn signal because my hair cell for that frequecy range is too far damaged for me to be able to hear it no matter how power ampflication I am wearing. Now with my CI I can actually hear it and the clicking noise is loud and annoying that I understood that how hearing people cannot forget to turn off the turn signal because it annoying enough not to forget it.


I took the flower above and I redid the photo which I felt in my experience are the CI and HA. The first flower on the left is what I feel are my CI and the flower on the right is what I feel is the HA.

I can hear sounds with HA but I am not hearing all of it even with the most powerful aids so there are some black spots in those distorted area which I cannot hear sound at all. The frequecy the turn signal made was one of those black spots.

With CI I feel I am picking up every sound out there in the world but I am still learning to picture what or where the sound are coming from so it still pixaliation to be but getting more clearer as I experience it and learn it.

Will CI make me a hearing person??? Hell no but it a hell a lot better than a HA that I will tell you. I would say 1000x better .. .oh wait let me add another zero there .. 10000x better .. no wait .. maybe one more zero ..

or maybe I should just say it a lot better than HA and there no questions about it.......


.







.

 

[deafdyke]

Yes, it was Boult who was making a big deal out of it.
And the thing is that response to hearing technology varies tremendously. It is very indivdualistic. Not every person with "deaf" losses will get minimal benifit from HA. I can understand even thou I'm only hoh. The difference between CI and HA, is prolly exactly like the difference between BTE HA and ITE HA for hoh people.
But my point is, that response to hearing technologies is VERY indivdualistic. Any audi will tell you that.

 

[Cloggy]

Never mind the experts who actually experienced both...
...what do they know...

Let's go for the expertise of deaf persons that never experienced a CI, and/or the hearing persons that never experienced either CI / HA..........

 

[Cloggy]

Pictures are great to visualize hearing-loss... Comparing hearing loss with loss of pixels... but could it be compared to black/white vs color?
Just wondering, could this be a representation for HA's - CI - Hearing? Is CI then like BW or more like "color"?
Hearing Aids......:

Cochlear Implant:

Hearing............:

 

[R2D2]

I love your flower analogy, Techbill!

 

[neecy]

The flower analogy rocks. I like Cloggy's use of b/w but in my case with HA's the B/W pic would have to be blured by a factor of 10!

 

[Cloggy]

The flower analogy rocks. I like Cloggy's use of b/w but in my case with HA's the B/W pic would have to be blured by a factor of 10!

or

But now with your CI... would it be better B/W or have you moved on to color ?

 

[vallee]

Tech Bill - You rock

I love the clicking of the turn signal. That was also my experience. It was also that I always left the lights on in the car, now I hear the sound when you remove the keys that lets you know the sound is on.

 

[Raykat]

You know your trying to debate with folks whom actually have experience both HA and CI in their lifetime while some of you never even experience using either devices. Why try to tell us otherwise? We experience it We know it We point it out to you, it can't be any simplier than that.

Like I said in another thread, lot of experiences we experienced in our life cannot be put in words or described on paper.

We CIers are probably hearing every sounds that is out there with CI but we are not sure what they are because we have not yet learn what the sounds are unlike the younger generation CIers that have a lifetime learning with CI will be able to determine the sounds better than who have been implanted as an adult.

With HA your not gonna hear lots of sound if your hair cell is so badly damaged because it not there to pick up the sound to begin with and the remaining cells that aren't so badly damage will pick up using HA ampflication but it will be just a distorted sound.

Let me give you one experience example. Some of you may know car turn signal give off some clicking sound to alert the driver that they have a turn signal enabled but I could never hear it with my hearing aid. My family would tell me that my turn signal is blinking and I would look at the dashboard and realized that I forgot to turn if off after I change lane then I would ask them the first time how they know I left it on they tell me that it make some type of clicking sound but my HA was the most powerful I could get and I was hearing lots and lots and lots of sounds with my HA but with my HA fully turn up to the max I still cannot hear that damn clicker from the turn signal because my hair cell for that frequecy range is too far damaged for me to be able to hear it no matter how power ampflication I am wearing. Now with my CI I can actually hear it and the clicking noise is loud and annoying that I understood that how hearing people cannot forget to turn off the turn signal because it annoying enough not to forget it.


I took the flower above and I redid the photo which I felt in my experience are the CI and HA. The first flower on the left is what I feel are my CI and the flower on the right is what I feel is the HA.

I can hear sounds with HA but I am not hearing all of it even with the most powerful aids so there are some black spots in those distorted area which I cannot hear sound at all. The frequecy the turn signal made was one of those black spots.

With CI I feel I am picking up every sound out there in the world but I am still learning to picture what or where the sound are coming from so it still pixaliation to be but getting more clearer as I experience it and learn it.

Will CI make me a hearing person??? Hell no but it a hell a lot better than a HA that I will tell you. I would say 1000x better .. .oh wait let me add another zero there .. 10000x better .. no wait .. maybe one more zero ..

or maybe I should just say it a lot better than HA and there no questions about it.......


.


Can totally relate to the car indicator story, having only been turned on for 11 days I heard them for the first time last weekend,, took me some time to figure out what it was too. Also never knew the microwave beeped to loudly, things that ha just does not and never will pick up for me so a totally different sound perception...

 

[jag]

Ask Boult. That's where the argument started.

Boult has said the devices don't deliver sound differently?

Boult has said that the results will be the same?

Boult has said the devices don't both help one percieve sound? etc etc etc...

I don't read that. Must require xray vision to see that stuff in his posts.

 

[Cloggy]

Boult has said the devices don't deliver sound differently?

Boult has said that the results will be the same?

Boult has said the devices don't both help one percieve sound? etc etc etc...

I don't read that. Must require xray vision to see that stuff in his posts.

I guess it's annoying when someone who knows his shit, has worn HA's, wears Ci, is telling you you are wrong....
Especially when you think you are always right and want to have the last word...
...tough....

 

[jillio]

Boult has said the devices don't deliver sound differently?

Boult has said that the results will be the same?

Boult has said the devices don't both help one percieve sound? etc etc etc...

I don't read that. Must require xray vision to see that stuff in his posts.

I went back tot he other thread that prompted this one in order to quote for you, but the posts have been removed. So, yes, I suppose you do need x-ray vision to read them.

The point is that no one has said that HA and CI do not function differently. But no matter that they function differently, the intended outcome of each is the same...to provide greater sound perception to the individual with hearing loss. Boult disputes that the intended outcome is the same. The way in which the outcome is achieved, and the degree of perception is different, but the intent of outcome is the same.

He also disputes that both are described as assistive devises. They are not categorized as Assistive Listening Devises, however, they can be described as assistive listening devises as they do assist in mediating a deficit.

 

[jillio]

I guess it's annoying when someone who knows his shit, has worn HA's, wears Ci, is telling you you are wrong....
Especially when you think you are always right and want to have the last word...
...tough....

Unless you have something productive to add to the discussion, and can address the topic of this thread in a reasonable and intelligent way, I ask that you refrain from coming in this thread to stir the pot. And clean up your language, please. Resorting to vulgarities is the technique of those that are unable to engage in productive discussion due to lack of knowledge.

 

[Cloggy]

I went back tot he other thread that prompted this one in order to quote for you, but the posts have been removed. So, yes, I suppose you do need x-ray vision to read them.

You mean this one...

........But no matter that they function differently, the intended outcome of each is the same....

Ah.... bike, motorbike..... they are the same... you bike....

 

[jillio]

To be quite honest Shel I cant understand why jillio even asked the original question. I have read over it several time still cant see the point. Yes HA is an assistive device, yes CI is an assistive device, both help with sound perception, maybe one helps better than others depending on the hearing loss and person involved........so..........point of question please??????

The answer to your question is contained in another thread...unfortunately, however, the claims contained in the posts of another member have been removed from that thread. Suffice it to say that clarification was needed.

 

[jillio]

Never mind the experts who actually experienced both...
...what do they know...

Let's go for the expertise of deaf persons that never experienced a CI, and/or the hearing persons that never experienced either CI / HA..........

We were not discussing experience. We were discussing intent and description. And individual responses vary.

 

[jillio]

You mean this one...

Ah.... bike, motorbike..... they are the same... you bike....

They are both 2 wheeled vehicles, with improved transportation over walking being the intended outcome. The variance lies in speed of reaching the destination. Thanks for supporting the point of the thread. I knew you would get it sooner or later.