Question for all in the oral camp

[shel90]

Exactly. They were not being provided with English skills in the manner in which they could effectively learn and use them, so the literacy rates started to plummet. It was more comfortable, as a result, to limit themselves to interaction with the Deaf community alone.

Oh..so that's where the myth came from about Deaf people being "isolated". That definitely does not apply to today's Deaf people..not by a long shot and people are still saying that members of the Deaf community isolate themselves which confused me cuz I dont see that at all. Now, I see where that myth or idea came from. All these OLD and outdated myths really need to go!

 

[shel90]

Well, I guess we both just learned something from Jillio. I really did not know the above history you told. But it really makes the pieces of my grandparents generation puzzle fall into place. That makes perfect sense.

Same here cuz I have oralists or people who are against the Deaf community telling me that the reason they feel that way is cuz they believe that Deaf people who use ASL isolate themselves which I do not see at all as I am an active member of the Deaf community. It shows that the oralists still hang onto to old and outdated myths..geez!

 

[jillio]

That is exactly the way I remember the old people. And why I can not criticize my Dad because he wanted more for me.

Yep. Nor would I criticise your dad for wanting more for you. But I see the problem as rooted in oralism. It is following the Milan Congress that we began to see the ills.

 

[jillio]

Well, I guess we both just learned something from Jillio. I really did not know the above history you told. But it really makes the pieces of my grandparents generation puzzle fall into place. That makes perfect sense.

We can all learn from each other.

 

[Bottesini]

Yep. Nor would I criticise your dad for wanting more for you. But I see the problem as rooted in oralism. It is following the Milan Congress that we began to see the ills.

Yes after you explained that it made such perfect sense.

 

[jillio]

Same here cuz I have oralists or people who are against the Deaf community telling me that the reason they feel that way cuz Deaf people who use ASL isolate themselves which I do not see at all as I am an active member of the Deaf community. It shows that the oralists still hang onto to old and outdated myths..geez!

And we have to keep trying to move them into the 21st century and give them an accurrate historical perspective.

 

[rick48]

Can I just ask,what does it hurt to give a deaf child ASL?

Your question is based upon an incorrect assumption that those who choose an oral route for their child do so because they think ASL is "hurt"ful for their child.

So, your question, as presently posed, is not one that I can answer based upon our personal decision for our child.
Rick

 

[Tousi]

Your question is based upon an incorrect assumption that those who choose an oral route for their child do so because they think ASL is "hurt"ful for their child.

So, your question, as presently posed, is not one that I can answer based upon our personal decision for our child.
Rick

Point taken, Rick but this also indicates to me that you didn't quite explore ALL options (and their combinations), did you? Not putting you down, per se but just making a "darn it" observation.

 

[jillio]

Point taken, Rick but this also indicates to me that you didn't quite explore ALL options (and their combinations), did you? Not putting you down, per se but just making a "darn it" observation.

Exactly. If it is not considered as hurtful, why isn't it looked at as potentially helpful?

 

[SCBassist]

Its unbelievable knowing there are "camps" for a certain type of communication. Being divisive on purpose gets noone anywhere. Consider the child's needs, he/she will need to learn to communicate as early as possible, this is the period where they learn language pretty quickly. If the child is deaf, ASL is a good start, but if you decide, your child will also benefit from a CI. Keep in mind the CI option requires a bit of time on your part to help with speech rehabilitation. If the child is hoh, a CI would not be recommended at this point. Again, ASL would be helpful for communication, and depending on the severity of the hearing loss, may benefit from an HA also. The point is to help your child use a method of communication early, and regardless what others tell you, the use of devices such as a CI or HA will also give the child the opportunity to communicate orally. These camps see a problem, I only see opportunity. Look at all these options as tools for communication, alot of deaf individuals almost always use a combination to communicate with.

 

[jillio]

Its unbelievable knowing there are "camps" for a certain type of communication. Being divisive on purpose gets noone anywhere. Consider the child's needs, he/she will need to learn to communicate as early as possible, this is the period where they learn language pretty quickly. If the child is deaf, ASL is a good start, but if you decide, your child will also benefit from a CI. Keep in mind the CI option requires a bit of time on your part to help with speech rehabilitation. If the child is hoh, a CI would not be recommended at this point. Again, ASL would be helpful for communication, and depending on the severity of the hearing loss, may benefit from an HA also. The point is to help your child use a method of communication early, and regardless what others tell you, the use of devices such as a CI or HA will also give the child the opportunity to communicate orally. These camps see a problem, I only see opportunity. Look at all these options as tools for communication, alot of deaf individuals almost always use a combination to communicate with.

 

[deafdyke]

Your question is based upon an incorrect assumption that those who choose an oral route for their child do so because they think ASL is "hurt"ful for their child.

True, but it's very apparent that those who chose oral only do see ASL as "special needs" or a "crutch" or "something that they don't need".......they reject ASL as a possible tool straight out of the gate!

 

[Miss-Delectable]

I believe many of those Oralists won't lower themselves to come into this discussion because on some level, they know we're right and they're wrong. They just don't wanna face it.

 

[jillio]

I believe many of those Oralists won't lower themselves to come into this discussion because on some level, they know we're right and they're wrong. They just don't wanna face it.

Yep. Denial is an overwhelming thing!

 

[shel90]

True, but it's very apparent that those who chose oral only do see ASL as "special needs" or a "crutch" or "something that they don't need".......they reject ASL as a possible tool straight out of the gate!

and that is a broken record that constantly repeats itself with the oralists.

 

[rick48]

Its unbelievable knowing there are "camps" for a certain type of communication. Being divisive on purpose gets noone anywhere. Consider the child's needs, he/she will need to learn to communicate as early as possible, this is the period where they learn language pretty quickly. If the child is deaf, ASL is a good start, but if you decide, your child will also benefit from a CI. Keep in mind the CI option requires a bit of time on your part to help with speech rehabilitation. If the child is hoh, a CI would not be recommended at this point. Again, ASL would be helpful for communication, and depending on the severity of the hearing loss, may benefit from an HA also. The point is to help your child use a method of communication early, and regardless what others tell you, the use of devices such as a CI or HA will also give the child the opportunity to communicate orally. These camps see a problem, I only see opportunity. Look at all these options as tools for communication, alot of deaf individuals almost always use a combination to communicate with.

Good points. What our child needed and what she demonstrated an interest and a preference in were always at the forfront of our observations. My wife is a teacher of elementary children with a masters is Special Education, and I have explained many times over in the past the route we took with our daughter that I am no longer going to waste my time re-explaining it to those who ignore what I say and simply utilize the knee jerk response of accusing us of not exploring all the options. We never viewed our decision to choose one method over another as that the none chosen method had no viability, just that it was not what was best for our child.
Rick

 

[jillio]

Good points. What our child needed and what she demonstrated an interest and a preference in were always at the forfront of our observations. My wife is a teacher of elementary children with a masters is Special Education, and I have explained many times over in the past the route we took with our daughter that I am no longer going to waste my time re-explaining it to those who ignore what I say and simply utilize the knee jerk response of accusing us of not exploring all the options. We never viewed our decision to choose one method over another as that the none chosen method had no viability, just that it was not what was best for our child.
Rick

How can a child exhibit a preference if not given an alternative from which to choose?

A Master's level degree in Special Education does not provide any training in the specifics of deaf education. Deaf children, unless dually diagnosed, are not learning disabled, nor cognitively impaired. They are perfectly capable of performing on or above grade level without limitation, if, and this is the big if, their linguistics needs are properly addressed.

The original question is still being avoided.

 

[shel90]

Good points. What our child needed and what she demonstrated an interest and a preference in were always at the forfront of our observations. My wife is a teacher of elementary children with a masters is Special Education, and I have explained many times over in the past the route we took with our daughter that I am no longer going to waste my time re-explaining it to those who ignore what I say and simply utilize the knee jerk response of accusing us of not exploring all the options. We never viewed our decision to choose one method over another as that the none chosen method had no viability, just that it was not what was best for our child.
Rick

I have a BA in Special Education and the program only covered deafness in one lecture. In that lecture, the professor said the solution to meeting deaf children's needs was to put them in front of the classroom with appropriate lighting. That was very misleading but at the time, I didnt know much about deaf education and it reflected my upbringing so at the time, I agreed. After getting my Master's in Deaf ed, I looked back and realized how wrong that professor and I was. I wonder in how many Special Ed programs, students are being told something like this about how to teach deaf children. It frightens me.I dont know how much of deaf education your wife's Special Ed program covered but I doubt it wasnt as intensive as it should be. That's why there are separate programs for Deaf education because all the issues and history cant be covered in one lecture.

You mean not what was best for your child but what was the best for you and your family? It seems like I hear "it was the best for my child" again and again from those who had restricted their child to one approach but how do the children themselves know what's best for them at such a young age? It is more appropriate to say "it was the best for our family" isnt it?

My mom thought putting me in an oral only program was the best for my brother and I..turns out it wasnt. It was the best for her and her needs at the time.

 

[deafdyke]

How can a child exhibit a preference if not given an alternative from which to choose?

Exactly jillo!!!! The term "preference" implies that there is a choice.....but most oral kids didn't have that choice. There ARE some kids who had that choice. For example, during early intervention, they were exposed to BOTH speech and Sign, and chose Sign. THEY exhibit a preference. How can something be a preference if its something they've only always known BY it being pushed on them?

 

[rick48]

The fact that the negative anti-ci trio weighed in to comment about my wife's knowledge and understanding of how to raise our child only proves my points. It also demonstates the hyprocrisy of their laments about the "lack of respect" for others that they constantly accuse others of exhibiting.

It is people like you that make us constantly thank our lucky stars that we were fortunate to meet wonderful and caring people in the oral deaf community who assisted and supported us along the way and not the likes of you three.

Rick