question about deaf people's writing skill

[jillio]

Yeah. I noticed that when I taught myself a smattering of Latin words from my sister's old text books, it really helped my vocabulary in English as many words in English (if not all) are of Latin origin.


I find it interesting that when you studied LSF, it helped you improve your ASL.

Just a guess, but I would think it has a lot to do with learning 2 languages that use the same syntactical arrangement. Bewing able to apply it to both allows for solidification of the rules.

 

[deafskeptic]

Yeah, I would think so too.

 

[Dixie]

what is LSF???

As far as writing skills, I have agree that a child should learn English word meaning and syntax before taking on ASL - but like one person said, you simply rearrange to Object Subject Verb.

So like if someone stated that they want to go to the movie store. In English they would say : I want to go to the movie store.

In ASL they would say : Movie store, I go.

But then again there are children, especially Hispanic children that grow up in a household that uses two languages fluently and they are able to switch from one to the other very easily, and in most cases the children start talking later than children that learn only one language, but their skills are fine once they reach age 4 or 5 for both languages. It is really interesting to watch these dual-language children develop dual-language skills over time.

Perhaps children should grow up learning both at the same time? If done correctly these children should be able to switch from English to ASL and back with little effort by the time they are of school age. As they grow their vocabularies also grow in both languages as long as they have fair exposure to both languages over the years into adulthood.

 

[shel90]

what is LSF???

As far as writing skills, I have agree that a child should learn English word meaning and syntax before taking on ASL - but like one person said, you simply rearrange to Object Subject Verb.

So like if someone stated that they want to go to the movie store. In English they would say : I want to go to the movie store.

In ASL they would say : Movie store, I go.

But then again there are children, especially Hispanic children that grow up in a household that uses two languages fluently and they are able to switch from one to the other very easily, and in most cases the children start talking later than children that learn only one language, but their skills are fine once they reach age 4 or 5 for both languages. It is really interesting to watch these dual-language children develop dual-language skills over time.

Perhaps children should grow up learning both at the same time? If done correctly these children should be able to switch from English to ASL and back with little effort by the time they are of school age. As they grow their vocabularies also grow in both languages as long as they have fair exposure to both languages over the years into adulthood.

I have seen that in many children from deaf families or hearing families that use ASL and English with their children. It is amazing to watch them switch and their writing skills are on par for their age appropriate level.

 

[jillio]

what is LSF???

As far as writing skills, I have agree that a child should learn English word meaning and syntax before taking on ASL - but like one person said, you simply rearrange to Object Subject Verb.

So like if someone stated that they want to go to the movie store. In English they would say : I want to go to the movie store.

In ASL they would say : Movie store, I go.

But then again there are children, especially Hispanic children that grow up in a household that uses two languages fluently and they are able to switch from one to the other very easily, and in most cases the children start talking later than children that learn only one language, but their skills are fine once they reach age 4 or 5 for both languages. It is really interesting to watch these dual-language children develop dual-language skills over time.

Perhaps children should grow up learning both at the same time? If done correctly these children should be able to switch from English to ASL and back with little effort by the time they are of school age. As they grow their vocabularies also grow in both languages as long as they have fair exposure to both languages over the years into adulthood.

Absolutely, they should be learning both at the same tiime! That is the ideal way. But I do have to respectfully disagree that a deaf child should learn English first. While the syntax in ASL if different than that used in English, learning ASL gives a deaf child the ability to internalize language as a tool, and facilitates the understanding of how to use and manipulate English as a tool.

And LSF, I believe is Language of Signs in French. It is more closely related to ASL than is English.

 

[jillio]

I have seen that in many children from deaf families or hearing families that use ASL and English with their children. It is amazing to watch them switch and their writing skills are on par for their age appropriate level.

Absolutely. I used to watch the kids at my sons school---him, as well, if I am allowed to offer personal experience---code switch from ASL to PSE to English with a blink of the eye. To watch these kids was truly amazing, and to even think that they do not have a mastery of langauge is just absurd.

 

[Buffalo]

And LSF, I believe is Language of Signs in French. It is more closely related to ASL than is English.

I googled LSF and it is "Langue des Signes Française".

 

[Tousi]

Mas oui! You are correctumundo! Merci Beaucoup! Lol, nevermind me....

 

[Buffalo]

I can't open the link cuz I am using my pager but I know what Jasin is talking about. I have gone to many workshops hosted by people who claimed to have created a written form of ASL but the truth is, in the long run, it isn't effective and doesn't make sense. The best thing is for deaf children to develop literacy skills in English or other spoken languages that have written form. Some deaf schools have attempted to teach using ASL in the written form..I haven't read any studies that showed propven results of it being effective. ASL has five compenents...handhsape, palm orienation, location, facial expression (there is one more but can't remember it but I think it is related to movement)..by putting it in written form, u take away two of the the components which r facial expression and movement. Without those two, ASL is no longer a working language.

Good point about the facial expression and movement. The point I could see in the sign writting is so they can write in ASL without hearing people criticizing them for lousy English. I believe English is quite essential because they will be dealing with hearing world.

 

[Sweetmind]

How could you allow to those Deaf children who must have all kind of aritificial langauges that are too much gutter languages into ASL/ PSE. I feel it s not appropriate to teach all kind of aritfiical languages to any kids because it s not a real equal language that must related to Oral Method only from a start. No wonder many hearing people who wants to learn ASL but they got lost when they finally meet us. I trully feel sad to see this happens to them after all Audist attitude people fooled them while they taught SEE in ASL classes. Sighs! NO voices allowed for them to hear while they learn ASL so be it. It will help them to learn and moviate to understand the concept of ASL that is important for them to kinow before they can work or teach Deaf children.

I am the one who had been dealing through SEE and Total communication that (doesnt mean two way of street issue). It means Deaf children must sign and speak at the same time that is not very natural for us to do this every day of our shoes, too. Also, no one can sign at the same time that goes very smooth. It s impossible for everyone that is the truth because it slows you down and makes those Deaf children to become restless. So what s your point to have all those artificial languages that hearing people think it s the best thing to use that tools for many years while it failed many Deaf children s rights in their Deaf Education as you saw the whole issue today? I dont see Why cant Deaf children have ASL from a start while Hearing children can have ASL from a start, too? That is what it bothers me for a long time.

ASL as native language and Signed English are the visual languages that help them to understand both concepts of ASL AND SE for English written with or without voices at the same time. Deaf children learn without frustration or struggle. This is what I mean is to say in ASL or SE that are very important to have BI BI that will help Deaf/ Latened Deaf or Hearing people with their positive outlook or children to understand the concept of these visual languages. Never mind about orally speaking or Deaf ears because it need to focus on Deaf Education that should be more consider for our Deaf Literacy.

Because it should not saying Butterfly as Butter and fly that makes Deaf children thinks that butter is flying up the air that is from SEE. Thats horrible I ever saw in my Deaf eyes. I get all mixed up with those meanings in PSE in some ways. I did not realize it until someone taught me ASL as pure one then Signed English then it got me a light blub in my head that comes out blinky a lot.

So therefore, Deaf colored children with or without disablities and hearing children are getting equal Education as well and deal with the same Bi Bi languages with or without voices. I strongly believe it s quite fair treatment for every Deaf children individuals with no conflict issue in the classrooms in School.. Thats simple to do!

No more superior over our Deaf languages of the Deaf community by audist attitude who doesnt have any respect for those Deaf children s Education that should end the solution NOW. Thanks! We are fed up about this degradation of Deaf children s natural abilities and adaptation.


Also it can have Deaf Foreign Languages for both sides too. So I dont understand this is all about artificial languages that is too many artificial languages while Hearing people has only one English Language so therefore it should be Signed English that would be good fit for a real communication and English Written..

I hope you understand what I am saying that goes into our emotional tones to be involved with body language and facial expression altogether that is very natural for Deafies. However Hearing people with a Deaf heart who is very good ASLers that I was shocked she is hearing because she acts like a Deaf person. Some of them loves to live in Deaf 's lives.

Many thanks!

Sweetmind

 

[Cloggy]

How could you allow to those Deaf children who must have all kind of aritificial langauges that are too much gutter languages into ASL/ PSE.

.........................

I hope you understand what I am saying that goes into our emotional tones to be involved with body language and facial expression altogether that is very natural for Deafies. However Hearing people with a Deaf heart who is very good ASLers that I was shocked she is hearing because she acts like a Deaf person. Some of them loves to live in Deaf 's lives.

Many thanks!

Sweetmind

Sweetmind,
It's interesting to see "your" writing in this thread.
You chose to make a post in excellent English and good choice of words, whereas in other posts in AllDeaf and other forums, your grammar and vocabulary is totally different.

With this, you show there is a quite a difference in ".... deaf people's writing skill ". For some reason, you have someone else translate your ASL into English on the keyboard.
I am used to both styles from you since I have been reading your posts for a while now. But even for me, there is the "deaf" Sweetmind - who is writing direct, and there is somebody who writes for Sweetmind - where a lot is censured.
What is the reason for using one style instead of the other.?

 

[Sweetmind]

Sweetmind,
It's interesting to see "your" writing in this thread.
You chose to make a post in excellent English and good choice of words, whereas in other posts in AllDeaf and other forums, your grammar and vocabulary is totally different.

With this, you show there is a quite a difference in ".... deaf people's writing skill ". For some reason, you have someone else translate your ASL into English on the keyboard.
I am used to both styles from you since I have been reading your posts for a while now. But even for me, there is the "deaf" Sweetmind - who is writing direct, and there is somebody who writes for Sweetmind - where a lot is censured.
What is the reason for using one style instead of the other.?

First of all, I like to say I am getting tired of their degradation of Deaf languages while I am all mixed up with artificial languages that relates to oral method only. I did not have ASL as native language. I could be a very different person than I am today as I strongly believe in ASL from the bottom of my heart. So therefore what the heck is with the evil corruption in this society. Why do Audist people have rights to destroy our American Sign Language from the start? You think English is an official language of the United States of America that is not true because people would not be allowed to use their native language from their culture by authorization of Govt. However it s a English language in America culture thats all there is to it; after all people comes from everywhere in this world because they already have their second language to prepare to deal with a real world that is very reasonable. It s not all about orally speaking or our ears to listen for us to deal with every day of our lives that is an extremely conflicted issue between Hearing and Deaf 's audist attitude; because you refused to accept or see these children are deaf as is there is nothing people can do about it. Thats end of it! Deaf people will be always deaf as is. Thats why I said it s a waste of time for any parents to force and conform Deaf children for NOTHING. Thats the reason I am so extremely against CI device itself on anybody from the bottom of my heart that is their excuse to make it look like we are the failure Deaf people. but Adults decide for themselves which it s fine with me . However they are making a huge mistake to destroy their Residual hearing...making their own DEATH wishes as well.

Ignorant hearing people pronounced the term of D E A T H as of a term of Deaf. Is that nice term influences on those Deaf children to see this when they found out after they read their lips. Deafies' audist attitude don't see what they are up to something all along that I am not a damn stupid to see through my Deaf eyes if you mind because I do care about any deafies as being deaf as is.


It s so bothersome that they looked down on me for what/who I am and my written English, no matter if it s poor , fair , good or the best or perfect that I dont even know if it s perfect english anymore. I just adjusted those words that relates to my own true feelings that s what you are seeing so many things that I wrote differently without anyone to stop me from what I want to express my own true feelings. Nobody do their first draft writing one time that is done for the teacher to read. I dont think so.

To be conitnued .....

 

[Sweetmind]

I would hate to depend on someone to edit my grammar because they speak for themselves but not me that is very wrong because I thought it would be okay for me to express my true feelings on the site but I got the wrong impression by these people. I ended up with more anger feelings that I will not let them have their own way because it s me and my own true feelings that is what you saw for almost ten years in both sites. No wonder Deafies refuses to take it seriously to learn how to read and understand it first before you write for a better writing. Thats why I cannot be me at all so how am I supposed to learn how to write in the classroom with many teachers with audist attitude. They are too busy within their own audist way to be included speech / listen those devices as well as I m not learning anything from them in many ways before we can learn other things that is important for us, our rights of the Deaf community in our life. You know in college one hearing teacher with very strong ASL that has a Deaf heart. He was replaced from someone else that had a personal reason for not able to teach.. I was so lucky to have him because he eased up my own writing that he doesnt tell me I was wrong or right but he understood what I am saying so he sign it to me in ASL what the book says that is hard for me to understand the concept of English language in some ways. So I went for a help and ask a lot of questions to see if I understood in the book .. That is my discovery journey that I am capable to express my true feelings whatever I type not write. I will tell you about using our hands or the computer to work on your writings later when I am up to it.

The reason why I did saying my own term; real Deaf people from the back those years in other deaf forums. I don't want any more labels on any Deaf people anymore because we all are much like that do NOT or doesn't hear everything/anything and leads us into a big misunderstanding. And we are the blame for having a real misunderstanding thru communication but it wasn't even us as always. It s a real Barrier of A Real Communication by them as well as we tried to use ASL usage for our getting by through it. It s somewhat challenge in it as well.

All I can say that I am a very observant person since I was a baby that is my survival to get through this world. It was no fun at all or enjoy my life because of AUDIST ATTITUDE that is the biggest issue on both sides that I am dealing with today that has not changed a bit at all. Now you can see why I don't hang out with many deafies or hearies because no one cares or really listens to A Real Deaf person from day one. So I m on my own as usual that is sometimes lonely in a way that I cannot denied that. I am still looking forward to see the bright life that I can enjoy before something happens to me that makes me a smile.

To be continued.....

 

[Sweetmind]

It s a very good example here

Guess what they put us into a isolation in their hearing world only. that is really horrible to live as not who you are all those years. This is what makes me very angry about many issues that I m very sensitive to many of those abuses all long.. It seems that it follows me everywhere I go but it really burns me out to deal with it and I'm tired of having those abusive remarks toward Real Deaf people of the Deaf community in front of people in their hearing world. That is a very cowardly and inhuman cruel type of treatment. I don't see any change for a real better at all. It s same old routine that is why I have said it repeatedly in different way of expression that I could find how to reach you to get the level of understandings.

Now you can see why I was standing up about my picture of my grandson and myself on xmas holidays again and again because I have a very excellent reason to tell the truth . A Special Education Teacher of the Deaf who did posting my picture more than once in Gay.com site. So therefore I don't owe her any apologies or forgive her more than once. Thats it. That is very Sexual Harassment Abuse.

I am a Deaf single mother of two daughters and four grandchildren that I love very much with all my heart that NO ONE is gonna to destroy MY OWN FAMILY and/or DEAF CHILDREN anymore. I PROTECTED all of my own children and those Deaf children if you mind.. MIND YOU, EVE and ANNIENCE as Latened Deaf and the rest of them especially Flannelboy aka Black Sheep (Deaf oralism) and BOULT aka Mr Hoagie, and other nicknames (CI deaf oralism) who sticked up for EVE after all you dont give a hoot about Sexual Harrassment Abuse by teachers of Deaf Education. So therefore it s MY BUSINESS to stop people like Audist people to those any children especially Deaf children if you mind.

To be continued....

 

[Sweetmind]

ALL I am asking for a better Deaf Education that Deaf children 's right to have ASL and Signed English that combines BI BI languages. PERIOD! It s very good access for both sides that makes a very equal treatment for Deaf children 's freedom to independent.

Sorry for taking so long to reply because I was going through some emotional pain when i had to think about my childhood hardships. I completely understand what Deaf children are going through because it is what I went through my Deaf eyes that I am still feeling their real pain to carry the burden on my shoulders as usual.

It took me one day to write this long message but i ll just cut it break into different pages so that way it would be easier for you to read.. So Please take your time to read the whole meaning of how a Deaf child feels so angry all the time without saying a word as their own true expression that need to stop destroying their true soul of each Deaf child.

And I did it on my own after all those years that I practiced to read and write in my own writings. I have seen many errors I made that is how I learned my mistake. In some ways it has to do with memories that i can remember how to write. All I do is focus on my reading skills and writing skills in ten years as much as I can learn on my own.

Thank you for your time to read this and feel free to ask me anything that u want to know. That's your choice to make for your Deaf children 's best interest of their Deaf rights for their futures that should come first.

Love you all,
Sweetmind

 

[Gemma]

Sweetmind,
It's interesting to see "your" writing in this thread.
You chose to make a post in excellent English and good choice of words, whereas in other posts in AllDeaf and other forums, your grammar and vocabulary is totally different.

With this, you show there is a quite a difference in ".... deaf people's writing skill ". For some reason, you have someone else translate your ASL into English on the keyboard.
I am used to both styles from you since I have been reading your posts for a while now. But even for me, there is the "deaf" Sweetmind - who is writing direct, and there is somebody who writes for Sweetmind - where a lot is censured.
What is the reason for using one style instead of the other.?

You read my mind, Cloggy. Especially the latter postings after you posted.

 

[Sweetmind]

Audism

Audism


Audism (from Latin audire, to hear, and -ism, a system of practice, behavior, belief, or attitude) has been variously defined as:


The notion that one is superior based on one's ability to hear or behave in the manner of one who hears. (Tom Humphrey 1977, quoted in Zak 1996)


An attitude based on pathological thinking which results in a negative stigma toward anyone who does not hear; like racism or sexism, audism judges, labels, and limits individuals on the basis of whether a person hears and speaks. (Humphrey and Alcorn 1995: 85)


The belief that life without hearing is futile and miserable, that hearing loss is a tragedy and "the scourge of mankind," and that deaf people should struggle to be as much like hearing people as possible. Audists, hearing or deaf, shun Deaf culture and the use of sign language, and have what Reed and Teuber describe as "an obsession with the use of residual hearing, speech, and lipreading by deaf people." (Pelka 1997: 33)


The corporate institution for dealing with deaf people--dealing with them by making statements about them, authorizing views of them, describing them, teaching about them, governing where they go to school and, in some cases, where they live; in short, audism is the hearing way of dominating, restructuring, and exercising authority over the deaf community. It includes such professional people as administrators of schools for deaf children and of training programs for deaf adults, interpreters, and some audiologists, speech therapists, otologists, psychologists, psychiatrists, librarians, researchers, social workers, and hearing aid specialists. (Lane 1992: 43)

Audism is a term used to describe discrimination or stereotypes against deaf or hard of hearing people, for example by assuming that the cultural ways of hearing people are preferable or superior to those of deaf or signing culture, or that deaf people are somehow less capable than hearing people.

Audists can either be hearing or deaf. Audism occurs when a deaf person is judged as incapable of a given behavior, occupation, etc. simply because he or she cannot hear. Audism is often coupled with a "hearing" superiority: an attitude of thinking one person is superior to another person because he or she can hear better than him or her. Audism takes another form concerning interactions between the deaf: deaf people who will not use sign language and who will not identify with the Deaf community may consider themselves to be "better" than others who use sign language and are part of Deaf culture.

I think this is much easier for you to read this on your own level of understanding in English Language. NO more excuses for you not to understand because you are letting it go and dont want to bother what is the reason for me to bring it the issue about AUDISM. I think it s pretty clear for you to understand this if not then ask someone to translate from English written to ASL then you will understand it better afteraward that you might realize what you are getting into your life after all u are really one of those Deaf children under control by Hearing people or Deaf people with their own audist attitude.


That is a real nightmare for me as a Deaf child by being a unreal Deaf person for years and years.

Greema, If you dont mind that I did it on my own in the earliest am when I am very tired and relax to express my true feelings that comes out like this while I edited myself as much as i can in a very slow pace. The reason is that I am having a difficult to see with my right eye for years that the doctor dont see anything as I couldnt believe it.. Nowadays I do not have my own prescription glasses and brough a cheap magnifying glasses for me to see that is getting by if you mind. I do have the delexia with those words for some reason that i couldnt read it smoothy cuz of shaking double my eyes for some reasons and the learning disabilities that I just found out that I have it if you mind. I aint paying for all those tests to prove the evidence since I didnt damage myself as a Deaf child while they did it to me as a Deaf child if you mind. I just cannot afford to so be it.

It s not easy job to do with my writings as far as I did accomplished to prove myself that Deaf people can improve on their own survival skills that is very valuable intellegtecual skills that we have been observed without orally speaking or devices. I did not realize how good written skills that I have the first comment about artificial languages. I assumed that makes me stronger and keep going not to give it up to prove them that I did not have my Hearing aid device anymore and did improve my own focus without any sounds around me anymore. It helps me to be more creative thinking to get myself into deep feelings. Creative thinking that I did not have a chance when I was a young kid if you mind. Thanks! I guess I caught up as much as I can make people to understand me as it s all matters to me. All I did the best of it as much as I can that is all.

Thank you for your compilment for acting like No Deaf children can learn or improve their reading skills and writing skills without devices.. Scoffs!

Very disappointed at ya both of you as well. That s a real abuse to degrade on me and my hardest work to make a difference for myself and Deaf children as it shows the evidence in my own eyewitness if you mind.

 

[shel90]

Audism



I think this is much easier for you to read this on your own level of understanding in English Language. NO more excuses for you not to understand because you are letting it go and dont want to bother what is the reason for me to bring it the issue about AUDISM. I think it s pretty clear for you to understand this if not then ask someone to translate from English written to ASL then you will understand it better afteraward that you might realize what you are getting into your life after all u are really one of those Deaf children under control by Hearing people or Deaf people with their own audist attitude.


That is a real nightmare for me as a Deaf child by being a unreal Deaf person for years and years.

Greema, If you dont mind that I did it on my own in the earliest am when I am very tired and relax to express my true feelings that comes out like this while I edited myself as much as i can in a very slow pace. The reason is that I am having a difficult to see with my right eye for years that the doctor dont see anything as I couldnt believe it.. Nowadays I do not have my own prescription glasses and brough a cheap magnifying glasses for me to see that is getting by if you mind. I do have the delexia with those words for some reason that i couldnt read it smoothy cuz of shaking double my eyes for some reasons and the learning disabilities that I just found out that I have it if you mind. I aint paying for all those tests to prove the evidence since I didnt damage myself as a Deaf child while they did it to me as a Deaf child if you mind. I just cannot afford to so be it.

It s not easy job to do with my writings as far as I did accomplished to prove myself that Deaf people can improve on their own survival skills that is very valuable intellegtecual skills that we have been observed without orally speaking or devices. I did not realize how good written skills that I have the first comment about artificial languages. I assumed that makes me stronger and keep going not to give it up to prove them that I did not have my Hearing aid device anymore and did improve my own focus without any sounds around me anymore. It helps me to be more creative thinking to get myself into deep feelings. Creative thinking that I did not have a chance when I was a young kid if you mind. Thanks! I guess I caught up as much as I can make people to understand me as it s all matters to me. All I did the best of it as much as I can that is all.

Thank you for your compilment for acting like No Deaf children can learn or improve their reading skills and writing skills.. Scoffs!

Very disappointed at ya both of you as well. That s a real abuse to degrade on me and my hardest work to make a difference for myself and Deaf children as it shows the evidence in my own eyewitness if you mind.

Those who put down deaf people for their English skills not being perfect dont really understand how hard it is because we dont have the luxury of hearing it being spoken around us at all times. We have to learn it from reading only while hearing children learn it from reading and listening to people. I think you are doing a good job considering you were deprived of a language growing up so dont give up!

 

[Cloggy]

Audism
...........

A very good definition and description of "audism", but not the one you are using. I have not met an audist on this messageboard, and that is only natural. An audist would not come here. Just look at the definition..
You however, use the word left and right, and in effect the word's meaning is deteriorating more and more.
So, it's good of you to show the real definition of "audism". Thanks

.........That is a real nightmare for me as a Deaf child by being a unreal Deaf person for years and years........

.... and I am happy for you that you managed to get away from that.

Greema, ....

..... do you mean "Gemma"?? Greema hasn't been here for a while..

 

[jillio]

A very good definition and description of "audism", but not the one you are using. I have not met an audist on this messageboard, and that is only natural. An audist would not come here. Just look at the definition..
You however, use the word left and right, and in effect the word's meaning is deteriorating more and more.
So, it's good of you to show the real definition of "audism". Thanks

There are audists on this message board. The problem is,they are so far intot heir own denial processes,that they are completely unable to even recognize their own audist attitudes.

.... and I am happy for you that you managed to get away from that.

She ahsn't gotten completely away from it, nor has any ofther Deaf/deaf person. The attitudes are still out there, and are resurfacing witha vengence due to the increase in the medical perspective of deafness.

..... do you mean "Gemma"?? Greema hasn't been here for a while..

You know very well to whom she was referring. Why is it that you feel it is necessary, or even desirable toconstantly point out typos and grammar errors of other posters....especially when you make so many of your own? Does it provide you with some sort of feeling of superiority?