Psycho-social issues

[shel90]

how long have they known about psycho-social issues? My parents had no idea.

I am talking about those who work in the field of Deaf Ed. If they chose to ingore these facts about deaf children who are mainstreamed, then IMO they have no business being in the field of Deaf ed. Most parents arent so it is normal that they probably arent aware of these issues when they find out their child is deaf.

 

[jillio]

Ok, I tried to speculate on why sweden got a strong bi-bi. I am not sure if sweden got a "model" one can copy.

To me, the swedish nationwide bilingual education, that is headed by the institute of special education, and the american state deaf schools, aren't that different. Most american state deaf schools claims to be bilingual. Bilingual education is offered at some few schools in the largest cities in sweden. Smaller contained classes outside the cities exists. A lot of similaries with the american deaf ed. Honestly, to me, american deaf people seem to romantice the swedish bi-bi system sometimes. You got excellent schools, like Maryland School of the Deaf.

But oralism seems to be almost non-existing in sweden. The assocation of hard of hearing people in sweden recommends sign language for their members. The institute of specal education strongly recommends sign language. Bilingual schools offer oral(oracy?) classes and speech lessons. No big deal. Few people says sign language is bad.

The strong acceptance of sign language is probably the secret of the swedish "model".

That's my understanding, and why the "swedish model" have more to do with mentality than a system. It's also my understanding that this is what NAD, DBC, AFA and the other deaf acitivists are trying to do in USA.

It most certainly has quite a bit to do with societal attitudes as a whole. I agree with you whole heartedly on that. Americans could take a lesson there, as well as from their educational models.

The strong, societal wide, acceptance of sign language is no doubt what allows their bi-bi system to function at its optimal level.

 

[jillio]

I know there are some systems that have worked remarkably well in other countries that can't be duplicated in America... for ie - Sweden's deaf program. Switzerland's gun program. Netherlands' health care program. One wonders why it cannot work in here. I have couple theories - the advantage that these countries have over America is its much less diversity and a smaller population thus easier to implement a "one-for-all" policy.

It isn't a matter of less diversity, but of greater societal acceptance of, and celebration of, diversity. It serves to eliminate the stigma attached to any type of difference.

 

[jillio]

I am talking about those who work in the field of Deaf Ed. If they chose to ingore these facts about deaf children who are mainstreamed, then IMO they have no business being in the field of Deaf ed. Most parents arent so it is normal that they probably arent aware of these issues when they find out their child is deaf.

Agreed. IMO, it is the educator's responsibility to help the parent understand these issues.

 

[Jiro]

It isn't a matter of less diversity, but of greater societal acceptance of, and celebration of, diversity. It serves to eliminate the stigma attached to any type of difference.

hmm.. just a tiny problem. Diversity.. in terms of what? I was referring to cultural and racial. Because of less diversity (in terms of those I just mentioned), there's a greater chance of societal acceptance.

 

[shel90]

It just occurred to me.....you already know that your stories tug at my heart in a big way. It makes me incredibly sad that children would be put in the position of feeling these emotions and this kind of rejection and isolation. It truly breaks my heart, and is one of the motivating factors in my life to continue to work for change that will prevent it continuing to happen to deaf children. It just is not acceptable in my book.

However, I am also incredibly proud of each and every one of you for having had such strength of character that you were able to overcome such horrendous obstacles that were put in front of you through no fault of your own. You are all amazing people, and I stand in awe much of the time for what you have conquered. Not your deafness, we all know that doesn't need to be conquered, it simply needs to be lived with. But your courage, your sense of forgiveness, your strength, your honesty in telling your stories...it never ceases to amaze me. I hate the fact that anyone has had to endure some of the things you all have endured, and at the same time, have such a profound admiration for you for the way you have dealt with it. My hat is off to all of you. I am truly blessed to have had the opportunity to get to know such amazing people, and each and every one of you affects my life in a positive way. Thank you for being who you are.

 

[shel90]

I would have to second that. I am thankful to all of you for sharing your experiences as it has opened my eyes to things that I may not have considered. Ignorance is something that I try my best to overcome. I believe any reasonable person with an open mind that is exposed to accurate information can make good decisions. As a parent of a deaf child I have to take in and make decisions on more information that I ever imagined. When I first found out my child was deaf I never imagined that how to raise and educate a deaf child was such a controversial subject with so many options.

 

[jillio]

hmm.. just a tiny problem. Diversity.. in terms of what? I was referring to cultural and racial. Because of less diversity (in terms of those I just mentioned), there's a greater chance of societal acceptance.

I was referring to cultural and racial diversity as well, and also any other difference that classifies one as diverse from the majority population. I understand what you are saying, but less diversity in a society usually leads to less acceptance, not more. Less diversity creates greater prevalence of ethnocentricm. It really doesn't have anything to do with the numbers of diverse individuals within a society, but the way those individuals are perceived and accepted as contributing members of the society.

 

[Jiro]

I was referring to cultural and racial diversity as well, and also any other difference that classifies one as diverse from the majority population. I understand what you are saying, but less diversity in a society usually leads to less acceptance, not more. Less diversity creates greater prevalence of ethnocentricm. It really doesn't have anything to do with the numbers of diverse individuals within a society, but the way those individuals are perceived and accepted as contributing members of the society.

interesting... Because the way I see it - when you have less racial & cultural diversity... such as "pretty much everybody's got same religion, value, belief, etc...." thus creating a safe, family-like atmosphere among each other like everybody knows everybody. Because of that - it gets easier to accept one-for-all policy regarding deaf education. People are willing to help each other out. But then....

The ironic thing is - my example does not work for homosexuals living in less diversified country but it does in America. such a complex issue... but interesting

 

[ASLGAL]

Unfortuately, that is one of the hazards of being a parent. I think most of us, as parents, will look back and wonder "Was there more I could have done?" I think that holds true for all parents, not just parents of deaf kids. But, as parents, the question we really need to ask ourselves is, "Did I do everything I knew to do?" or "Did I do the best I could under the circumstances?" I think the vast majority of parents can say "Yes, I did the best I could with the information I had and the resources available to me."

You can say that again!
No matter how great you may know you have done, deep down you always question and wonder.
D/deaf, Blind, DeafBlind, Hearing, Sighted, and so on. One always wonders and fears they have fallen short somehow.

As far as DeafEd teachers, I have seem the range of "No Clue/romantic savior notion" to "bare bones basics and TC"

 

[jillio]

interesting... Because the way I see it - when you have less racial & cultural diversity... such as "pretty much everybody's got same religion, value, belief, etc...." thus creating a safe, family-like atmosphere among each other like everybody knows everybody. Because of that - it gets easier to accept one-for-all policy regarding deaf education. People are willing to help each other out. But then....

The ironic thing is - my example does not work for homosexuals living in less diversified country but it does in America. such a complex issue... but interesting

The situation you describe just creates a larger majority. It doesn't do anything to change the attitudes of acceptance and tolerance of diversity. In fact, the smaller the minority population, the greater the opportunity for unrestricted opression.

 

[Daredevel7]

The situation you describe just creates a larger majority. It doesn't do anything to change the attitudes of acceptance and tolerance of diversity. In fact, the smaller the minority population, the greater the opportunity for unrestricted opression.

True, in this case, it would shut up the oral successes, right?

 

[jillio]

True, in this case, it would shut up the oral successes, right?

Ever hear the phrase, "very vocal minority"?

 

[Daredevel7]

Ever hear the phrase, "very vocal minority"?

Quote from my mother (re: me): "Once we taught you to speak, you never stopped."

 

[flip]

I know there are some systems that have worked remarkably well in other countries that can't be duplicated in America... for ie - Sweden's deaf program. Switzerland's gun program. Netherlands' health care program. One wonders why it cannot work in here. I have couple theories - the advantage that these countries have over America is its much less diversity and a smaller population thus easier to implement a "one-for-all" policy.

Agree the smaller population makes it way easier to implement a nationwide standard. But the swedish parents aren't forced into the bilingual programs as far I know. They are free to mainstream their children. Children who get in trouble in mainstream schools are perhaps faster adviced to attent a bilingual school, than in many places in the states, but that's perhaps it. So I can't see a communistic style "one-for-all" policy in sweden, but much less fear of sign language.

If there is any physical model to copy, it would be a stronger institude of special ed/needs(the term "special needs" is something I don't like with the swedish model, "bilingual" would be better) at a federal level. It's my impression that once the goverment pours a lot of money into something, it imeditately gets more authority and respect from the population. The Leave No Child Behind Act would have to be revised and more careful used, so deaf people aren't put into "inclusive" mainstream programs that often lack any standars and are full of randomness.

I think the biggest problem in the USA not is the diversity, but the randomness of history that gave you AG Bell, that is doing a lot of lobbying with Cochlear companies and promotes oralism. Denmark have some of the same problems with oralists as I have seen, and also a much weaker bilingual education system.

 

[flip]

The situation you describe just creates a larger majority. It doesn't do anything to change the attitudes of acceptance and tolerance of diversity. In fact, the smaller the minority population, the greater the opportunity for unrestricted opression.

Europe is the most diverse place I know of in the whole world, and last time I visited sweden, it was pretty diverse. One don't know the nationality of people in europe anymore. All kind of religions and races are mixed up, and I think it's kinda cool. Makes me feel like a traveller all the time

Anyway, to include all children in an environment like this, bi-bi is probably the most effective way.

 

[deafbajagal]

The education system in Sweden works because it is built on a national framework of standards. Also, it works because the government has literature, education, and support readily available to parents, teachers, etc. of the deaf/hh child.

This kind of educational system (bi-bi) will not work well in the U.S. until changes are made. For one thing, many parents of deaf and hh children are not fluent in American Sign Language, which makes the language not accessible for the deaf/hh child at home...hence hindering language acquistion and development. The US government needs to provide support for parents to be able to take off from work to attend ASL classes, provide money to purchase materials such as books, videos, etc., and to have mentors who are fluent in ASL to come into their homes to promote and expose the language.

I think many parents choose oral education because it is the mode they themselves are the most comfortable with. Some parents say it is the language of the majority (aka hearing world)...thus children needs oral skills to survive in the world. This misconception has hurt a lot of children. Adults today who endured the experiences of oralism are still paying the price.

For one thing, it is not a hearing world. It is a world of both deaf and hearing. I live and breathe in this world, and I'll be damned if they take away my acre of the planet to put a stake in it and say it's the hearing world.

 

[deafskeptic]

The education system in Sweden works because it is built on a national framework of standards. Also, it works because the government has literature, education, and support readily available to parents, teachers, etc. of the deaf/hh child.

This kind of educational system (bi-bi) will not work well in the U.S. until changes are made. For one thing, many parents of deaf and hh children are not fluent in American Sign Language, which makes the language not accessible for the deaf/hh child at home...hence hindering language acquistion and development. The US government needs to provide support for parents to be able to take off from work to attend ASL classes, provide money to purchase materials such as books, videos, etc., and to have mentors who are fluent in ASL to come into their homes to promote and expose the language.

I think many parents choose oral education because it is the mode they themselves are the most comfortable with. Some parents say it is the language of the majority (aka hearing world)...thus children needs oral skills to survive in the world. This misconception has hurt a lot of children. Adults today who endured the experiences of oralism are still paying the price.

For one thing, it is not a hearing world. It is a world of both deaf and hearing. I live and breathe in this world, and I'll be damned if they take away my acre of the planet to put a stake in it and say it's the hearing world.

Well, I don't think that majority of parents of d/Deaf Swedes knew sign either when their child was first dx'd. I wonder if they made commitment to sign as opposed to American hearing parents who rarely ever learn enough signs to communicate with their deaf child.

I think you're right about support for Bi-Bi in this country though.

 

[shel90]

The education system in Sweden works because it is built on a national framework of standards. Also, it works because the government has literature, education, and support readily available to parents, teachers, etc. of the deaf/hh child.

This kind of educational system (bi-bi) will not work well in the U.S. until changes are made. For one thing, many parents of deaf and hh children are not fluent in American Sign Language, which makes the language not accessible for the deaf/hh child at home...hence hindering language acquistion and development. The US government needs to provide support for parents to be able to take off from work to attend ASL classes, provide money to purchase materials such as books, videos, etc., and to have mentors who are fluent in ASL to come into their homes to promote and expose the language.

I think many parents choose oral education because it is the mode they themselves are the most comfortable with. Some parents say it is the language of the majority (aka hearing world)...thus children needs oral skills to survive in the world. This misconception has hurt a lot of children. Adults today who endured the experiences of oralism are still paying the price.

For one thing, it is not a hearing world. It is a world of both deaf and hearing. I live and breathe in this world, and I'll be damned if they take away my acre of the planet to put a stake in it and say it's the hearing world.

By making BiBi mandatory for Deaf Ed in the U.S/, at least the children have access to language and info in the school setting as opposed to none both at home and at school. I agree with u that parents need the support from the govt to learn ASL.

 

[deafbajagal]

Well, I don't think that majority of parents of d/Deaf Swedes knew sign either when their child was first dx'd. I wonder if they made commitment to sign as opposed to American hearing parents who rarely ever learn enough signs to communicate with their deaf child.

I think you're right about support for Bi-Bi in this country though.

Many parents in Sweden have learned SSL and use it in their homes...they had support to be able to learn it.

And I agree with Shel - getting bi-bi only at school is better than nothing.

Of course, the best practice is in place when the child has complete access to both languages at home and school.