Psycho-social issues

I think that parents who choose an oral only route look at the pros and cons and decide that they think that it is worth it. They think that being able to communicate in the mode used by 99% of the world's population is worth a little loneliness in school.
Sorry faire_jour but one of the biggest issues that I have with oral only is that it presents itself as something with no downsides.
I remember reading something that listed the pros and cons of AVT. The ONLY con was " it's not widely available"
They tend to gloss over the disadvantages of oral only.And the loneliness suffered by a dhh kid is NOT just a "little thing."
 
The examples set forth here underscore the inherent problem when one relies too heavily upon "research" and "studies" to generalize about deaf children or to dictate how to raise any child, including a deaf child. When you eliminate personal observations and the knowledge that a parent has about their own child, one is excluding an extremely valuable resource. "Research" or "studies" can be good or bad, biased or objective, subjective and speculative or based on facts. It is one source, although in my opinion, one that pales in comparison to understanding one's own child and providing for your child's individual and unique needs rather than having your child's needs tailored to the findings and suppositions of "research" and "studies".

Remember these examples have been posted to support the allegation that oral deaf children, including those with cochlear implants have a greater incidence of "significant" social issues than their hearing and non-oral and non-implanted deaf peers.


"Many students who have a hearing loss and are educated in mainstream settings report feelings of loneliness and a lack of close friendships (Stinson & Whitmire, 1992)."

How many students? The entire population of deaf students? What was the population size of this study? Also, note that there is no differentiation between oral deaf and manual deaf students. No mention at all whether these students use Has, Cis or nothing at all. Most importantly where does it state that these mainstream students with a hearing loss report feelings of loneliness and a lack of close friendships greater than others? It does not.


"Most of these students are surrounded only by hearing individuals and generally have no deaf or hard-of-hearing peers (Stinson & Lang, 1994)."

Hardly need a study to tell anyone mainstreamed children with hearing losses are surrounded by hearing individuals. One would think that is self-evident. That these children "generally", one of many undefined terms, have no deaf or HOH peers is an observation, that in and of itself, proves nothing and is dispositive of nothing. It certainly does not support the allegation of "significant" social issues.


"This lack of contact with deaf peers may evoke feelings of being alone, different, or stigmatized (Evan, 1989) and may lead to negative self perceptions (Leigh, 1999)."

A subjective and speculative opinion that is being used as a fact. Note the key word: "may". Yes it "may", but then again it "may not". Also, nowhere does it state that the students they are referring to are oral or have cochlear implants. The statement can be applied to a Deaf student who uses a manual form of communication and who is mainstreamed.



"In addition to feelings of isolation, children who are deaf and mainstreamed face the task of orally communicating with hearing people most of the time. Oral communication poses the greatest difficulty in establishing and maintaining social relationships for children who have a hearing loss (Antia & Stinson, 1999; Aplin, 1987; Markides, 1989; Stinson & Whitmire, 1991). Although many children have the potential to hear and to speak orally with proper amplification and intensive speech therapy, not all have the capability to speak clearly or hear and understand other people's speech."

Agree, without oral communication skills, it is difficult to maintain social relationships with hearing children. However, the statement does not address the issue of those deaf children who do have those oral communication skills or distinguishes between them and those who do not. Also, note how old these studies are. Three of them are so old that they have no relevance to the deaf child of today who is getting implanted at a much earlier age. One disagreement is with the gratuitous labeling of all these deaf children as having "feelings of isolation". Where has that been established? How, if at all, are these "feelings of isolation" different than those experienced by virtually every other child at some point in their lives.



"One of the common criticisms of cochlear implants is that spoken language skills of implant users remain inadequate for full functioning within a hearing community (Crouch, 1997; Lane, 1997)."

"Common" criticism, really by whom? It is only a "common criticism" by those who oppose cochlear implants and have an anti-cochlear implant agenda. One of the "authors" of the study is Harlan Lane, a long discredited critic of cochlear implants with an unrepentative anti-cochlear implant agenda. Obviously biased "research" is being used here, thus destroying its overall credibility. Also note the term "full functioning" yet another undefined term slipped into to give the appearance of a negative. How do we know what the term means and if many hearing people would also not qualify as "full functioning"? We do not but why let that get in the way of a biased anti-cochlear work?

Well that's it for now, more to come over the next few days. So far absolutely nothing has been shown to prove and/or support the alleged "significant" social issues being suffered by oral deaf children and cochlear implant users.
 
The emotional well being of my deaf child is just as important as a good education and it's also just as important as his ability to be independant and productive in society. They are all important and in my view nothing should have to be sacraficed to achieve any of it.

I am no expert on how to best educate a deaf child. I am not an expert in psycology. That is probably the case with the majority of hearing parents of deaf children. I should be able to rely upon the experts in the scientific, medical and educational communities that have conducted the studies and gathered the findings to make recommendations based on the results. Of course these studies must undergo peer review. As a start those recommendations should be recognized by the government and educators and at mininum, be implemented as options at every school that teaches deaf kids. I'm sure there is a flaw in my logic somewhere.
 
The examples set forth here underscore the inherent problem when one relies too heavily upon "research" and "studies" to generalize about deaf children or to dictate how to raise any child, including a deaf child. When you eliminate personal observations and the knowledge that a parent has about their own child, one is excluding an extremely valuable resource. "Research" or "studies" can be good or bad, biased or objective, subjective and speculative or based on facts. It is one source, although in my opinion, one that pales in comparison to understanding one's own child and providing for your child's individual and unique needs rather than having your child's needs tailored to the findings and suppositions of "research" and "studies".

Hmmm. Guess you didn't bother to access and read any of the research, or you would have discovered which one actually was the result of parental interviews.:cool2:
Remember these examples have been posted to support the allegation that oral deaf children, including those with cochlear implants have a greater incidence of "significant" social issues than their hearing and non-oral and non-implanted deaf peers.

Actually, no, that isn't why it was posted. That is supported time and time and time again through the life stories that are shared on this forum, in biographies, and in histories of the deaf. It was posted to refute the allegation that mainstreamed deaf children did not experience psycho-social difficulties because technology has made it possible for them to fully integrate.

"Many students who have a hearing loss and are educated in mainstream settings report feelings of loneliness and a lack of close friendships (Stinson & Whitmire, 1992)."

How many students? The entire population of deaf students? What was the population size of this study? Also, note that there is no differentiation between oral deaf and manual deaf students. No mention at all whether these students use Has, Cis or nothing at all. Most importantly where does it state that these mainstream students with a hearing loss report feelings of loneliness and a lack of close friendships greater than others? It does not.


Well, I suppose if you had of bothered to access and read the research, your questions regarding the number of students and their demographics would already have been answered for you. It is contained in the "Participants" section of the report. Likewise, in the methodology section, you will find the comparisons as applied to other groups.
"Most of these students are surrounded only by hearing individuals and generally have no deaf or hard-of-hearing peers (Stinson & Lang, 1994)."

Hardly need a study to tell anyone mainstreamed children with hearing losses are surrounded by hearing individuals. One would think that is self-evident. That these children "generally", one of many undefined terms, have no deaf or HOH peers is an observation, that in and of itself, proves nothing and is dispositive of nothing. It certainly does not support the allegation of "significant" social issues.

It most certainly supports it, as it is one of the most significant variables.


"This lack of contact with deaf peers may evoke feelings of being alone, different, or stigmatized (Evan, 1989) and may lead to negative self perceptions (Leigh, 1999)."

A subjective and speculative opinion that is being used as a fact. Note the key word: "may". Yes it "may", but then again it "may not". Also, nowhere does it state that the students they are referring to are oral or have cochlear implants. The statement can be applied to a Deaf student who uses a manual form of communication and who is mainstreamed.

An opinion based on empirical evidence that such appears to be true from the research studied and conducted. And it does break down the students' hearing status as well as their aided status, but then again, you have to be willing to access and read the whole research report.


"In addition to feelings of isolation, children who are deaf and mainstreamed face the task of orally communicating with hearing people most of the time. Oral communication poses the greatest difficulty in establishing and maintaining social relationships for children who have a hearing loss (Antia & Stinson, 1999; Aplin, 1987; Markides, 1989; Stinson & Whitmire, 1991). Although many children have the potential to hear and to speak orally with proper amplification and intensive speech therapy, not all have the capability to speak clearly or hear and understand other people's speech."

Agree, without oral communication skills, it is difficult to maintain social relationships with hearing children. However, the statement does not address the issue of those deaf children who do have those oral communication skills or distinguishes between them and those who do not. Also, note how old these studies are. Three of them are so old that they have no relevance to the deaf child of today who is getting implanted at a much earlier age. One disagreement is with the gratuitous labeling of all these deaf children as having "feelings of isolation". Where has that been established? How, if at all, are these "feelings of isolation" different than those experienced by virtually every other child at some point in their lives.

Again, yes, the study does address these issues. You really should refrain from stating what is included and what is not included in a document you have not even read. I have selected excerpts. It is by no means the entire research report. Nor have I ever claimed it to be. If one is so interested in this topic as to argue it so continually, it should be safe to assume that interest would lead to one actually reading the research.

One of the common criticisms of cochlear implants is that spoken language skills of implant users remain inadequate for full functioning within a hearing community (Crouch, 1997; Lane, 1997)."

"Common" criticism, really by whom? It is only a "common criticism" by those who oppose cochlear implants and have an anti-cochlear implant agenda. One of the "authors" of the study is Harlan Lane, a long discredited critic of cochlear implants with an unrepentative anti-cochlear implant agenda. Obviously biased "research" is being used here, thus destroying its overall credibility. Also note the term "full functioning" yet another undefined term slipped into to give the appearance of a negative. How do we know what the term means and if many hearing people would also not qualify as "full functioning"? We do not but why let that get in the way of a biased anti-cochlear work?

By whom? Citation is there. You are more than welcome to access exactly where that research came from. Terms that are used and that are important to the conclusions drawn and the variable being studied have all been operationally defined. But, once again, you will have to access and read the research to know that. Bias is the result of refusing to look at anything other than what you want to believe. Sound familiar?

Well that's it for now, more to come over the next few days. So far absolutely nothing has been shown to prove and/or support the alleged "significant" social issues being suffered by oral deaf children and cochlear implant users.

When "more comes" try posting actual academic, peer reviewed, IRB sanctioned research. I'll be interested in what you manage to come up with. The research supports the claims, and the personal stories of the multitudes of deaf adults that have suffered under an ethnocentric perspective prove it. But then, I suppose deaf people don't know what their experiences are. They need a hearing person to tell them.:cool2: Thank God the researchers don't function under that principle, or they would be as biased as is your unsubstantiated opinion.
 
The emotional well being of my deaf child is just as important as a good education and it's also just as important as his ability to be independant and productive in society. They are all important and in my view nothing should have to be sacraficed to achieve any of it.

I am no expert in how to best educate a deaf child. I am no expert in psycology. That is probably the case with the majority of hearing parents of deaf children. I should be able to rely upon the experts in the scientific, medical and educational communities that have conducted the studies and gathered the findings to make recommendations based on the results. Of course these studies must undergo peer review. As a start those recommendations should be recognized by the government and educators and at mininum, be implemented as options at every school that teaches deaf kids. I'm sure there is a flaw in my logic somewhere.

I certainly can't find one here.
 
The other thing I wanted to mention and this is not intended to minimalize any of this but, deaf and hearing kids experience psyco-social issues. How do the studies between hearing kids and deaf kids compare and contrast?
 
The other thing I wanted to mention and this is not intended to minimalize any of this but, deaf and hearing kids experience psyco-social issues. How do the studies between hearing kids and deaf kids compare and contrast?

More than one of these studies used hearing kids as their control. I have many more at my disposal if you would like some more clarification.
 
..................Take Sweden for example. Seems like there's great education progress for the deaf there, right? Is this because more parents demanded sign language as the primary instruction for their kids? Or is it because Sweden developed a plan the deaf education and the parents saw it happening in the flesh and liked it?

Which came first, the egg or the chicken? :)
Good question. How exactly does Sweeden do it?
 
me too but I wouldnt want to put any of my siblings through the hassle of being deaf.

I just want to have a deaf family member to kill the boredom I had while growing up. That deaf family member would also be very happy to have me to kill the boredom as well.
 
hmmm... so which one has better cons than others? ASL-first program or Oral-first program? :hmm:

ASL first is best. no matter what hearing aids or ci's, you can never over estimate how much the person misses out on. With ASL the person can at least establish a foundation of language.
 
rick, social issues tend to be a perennial topic at the Mainstream Conference and the Mainstream News. Also overall, kids with disabilites (all sorts) tend to have significent social issues.
 
Good question. How exactly does Sweeden do it?

I think it is more of a case what happened and less what they did. First, Sweden have a small population, less than 10 millions. This leaves less room for diverse philosophies in education. Second, they got a national governed institute for special needs in education. This institute follows circiliums for public schools, but with some small changes, depending on handicap. For deaf people, they offer bilingual education, as that's what the universtity and professors recommends. Earlier it was more oral style education, but that changed with new findings in research. That's my understanding of the swedish education system. If it wasn't for the old big institute of special needs education, bilingual education would perhaps not been offered to all deaf people in sweden.

One big difference between states and sweden is perhaps that sweden rely more on experts, while in the states, the customers allways are right, and in this case, the customers are the parents, not deaf people themselves, unfortunately.
 
I doubt seriously that we will ever break free of oralism completely. Too much ethnocentricsm to combat in the process.:P

I would simply like to see a major shift of oralism to oracy, as included in the programs that provide a full tool box for our kids.

Good luck with that exam.

Maybe not completely, but at least it wouldn't be a prominent idea anymore. Just a special case kinda thing.

Oralism shifted into oracy sounds good. I think a lot of teachers of deaf ed don't know what they are doing. Deaf teachers teaching in typical subjects, that's easy. But in terms of combining oracy with ASL classes, I think this is where it gets blurred. Do we limit speaking to only speech therapy classes or does it come later or do we even use it at all in classes or do we split classes (one speaking and one signing), etc. The details seems to be where people get confused.

Thanks for the good luck because I got 100%! BAM! (If I did bad, wouldn't that be KINDA sad...? :) A deaf person failing ASL....)
 
Maybe not completely, but at least it wouldn't be a prominent idea anymore. Just a special case kinda thing.

Oralism shifted into oracy sounds good. I think a lot of teachers of deaf ed don't know what they are doing. Deaf teachers teaching in typical subjects, that's easy. But in terms of combining oracy with ASL classes, I think this is where it gets blurred. Do we limit speaking to only speech therapy classes or does it come later or do we even use it at all in classes or do we split classes (one speaking and one signing), etc. The details seems to be where people get confused.

Thanks for the good luck because I got 100%! BAM! (If I did bad, wouldn't that be KINDA sad...? :) A deaf person failing ASL....)

Congrats!!:h5:

The good bi-bi programs have included oracy in their methodology quite successfully. Often, it is used for reinforced learning in small groups; after the concepts necessary for the class instruction has been given in ASL. In large group learning, ASL is simply more accessable. Once the concepts are taught and learned using ASL in the large group classroom, students can split off into small groups for reinforcement with oral presentation reinforced with sign as necessary for comprehension.
 
Congrats!!:h5:

The good bi-bi programs have included oracy in their methodology quite successfully. Often, it is used for reinforced learning in small groups; after the concepts necessary for the class instruction has been given in ASL. In large group learning, ASL is simply more accessable. Once the concepts are taught and learned using ASL in the large group classroom, students can split off into small groups for reinforcement with oral presentation reinforced with sign as necessary for comprehension.

Right...as a teacher, it is not that complicated as I have seen and done it in action. Kids seem to do well with this approach.
 
More than one of these studies used hearing kids as their control. I have many more at my disposal if you would like some more clarification.
thanks and pardon my ignorance but I am not sure that answers my questions on how the numbers stack up. Again, not to minimise or discredit any of this but it's my understanding that psychosocial issues may arise in children for many reasons from bedwetting to daycare to chronic illness to bad parents and the list goes on and on. I don't believe for one second that some deaf kids brought up and educated under certian methods and systems don't have psychosocial issues. The evidence is clear. I am just not convinced that every child under the same circumstances will have the same results. I would imagine there are other variables to consider as to what the outcome for a given child would be.
 
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thanks and pardon my ignorance but I am not sure that answers my questions on how the numbers stack up. Again, not to minimise or discredit any of this but it's my understanding that psychosocial issues may arise in children for many reasons from bedwetting to daycare to chronic illness to bad parents and the list goes on and on. I don't believe for one second that some deaf kids brought and educated under certian methods and systems don't have psychosocial issues. The evidence is clear. I am just not convinced that every child under the same circumstances will have the same results. I would imagine there are other variables to consider as to what the outcome for a given child would be.

Well, the research nor the anecdote says that every child educated under a specific system will experience the same consequences. What it does say is that when compared to hearing students, these students experienced problems in psycho-social development and adjustment that was below that of the hearing students. The deaf students as a group score lower on these measures than do the hearing students. Within that group is a continuum, where some deaf students will score higher that other deaf students, and some hearing students will score higher than other hearing students. However, those in group differences do not affect the fact that as a group, the deaf students score lower on psycho-social measures than did the hearing children.

Of course there are other variables when you look at each child individually. However, these are not educational placement issues, but personal variables that need to be addressed through individual means. For instance, a deaf child with a neglectful parent and in a mainstream setting will no doubt score on the low end of the continuum. Will addressing educational placement alone rectify all the issues? Of course not. Will it help. Yes, it will. Will addressing the parental issues without addressing the educational placement issues rectify the problems? No, it won't. Will it help? Probably will raise the score to a more mid level on the continuum, but it won't correct all the problems.

This research is in relation to group concerns. Can we rectify many of these problems by addressing them as a group concern. Most certainly. Can we solve a child's problems when other environmental concerns are having a negative impact through a group process? No, we can't. That is where individual concerns get addressed.
 
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