Proof of Near-Death Experiences?

jillio said:
Contrary. Consciousness has been defined. It could not be discussed without having been defined.
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Show me link please where consciousness has been defined? As every peice I ever read suggestedwe do NOT know what it is. Thx

I was saying we do NOT know what consciousness is, sure we can sort of define some of it :)

It's right up there with gravety! Defies explaination at this time.
 
jillio said:
The key word is "measurable".
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Of course, my point exactly. Do you have any idea the measurable amount of brain activity for even mild thoughts? We are talking about lengthly in depth vivid dreams here at least there should be some measurable activity and this is what is problematic in this case.

These results suggests that what ever that activity was either was not part of the brain, or used unmeasurable activity to produce ideas, thoughts, dream, whatever you want to call it. It's just mind boogling to experts.
 
Brain activity measurements developed at Hebrew University could lead to better devices to move injured or artificial limbs

One of the long-term goals of the field of neuro-imaging is to understand what a person is thinking just by looking at the pattern of his or her brain activity--in essence, reading the mind. While that feat is still a long way off, scientists at the University of New Mexico have taken an important step by refining neuro-imaging techniques to the point where they can reliably detect a single thought forming in an individual's brain.
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Source below
Technology Review: Watching a Single Thought Form in the Brain

http://www.ccnl.emory.edu/greg/Complexity.pdf
 
Well I personally know it is true because I've actually died three times. The first time I was just a baby so I really cannot account for that "near-death experience." However, I can account for the last two times.

Cool stuff, really.
 
lsfoster said:
I guess you could say is has been defined in a lot of different ways by a lot of different people, but it has not yet been concretely defined.

"Consciousness may involve thoughts, sensations, perceptions, moods, emotions, dreams, and self-awareness. It has been defined from a biological and causal perspective as the act of autonomously modulating attentional and computational effort, usually with the goal of obtaining, retaining, or maximizing specific parameters, such as food, a safe environment, family, or mates.

The issue of what consciousness is, and to what extent and in what sense it exists, is the subject of much research in philosophy of mind, psychology, neuroscience, cognitive science, and artificial intelligence. Issues of practical concern include how the presence of consciousness can be assessed in severely ill individuals; how non-human consciousness can be measured; at what point in fetal development consciousness begins; and whether computers can achieve conscious states."

Consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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great link, to the wiki, i thank you for that, this will take me hours to get through all that.

and also
someone else's link about the blind lady at NDE where she sees for the first time, and meeting Jesus is quite fascinating, even hopeful sorry if this is a strange choice of word - but i meant it more like in a sense hmmm

Cheers
 
lsfoster said:
I guess you could say is has been defined in a lot of different ways by a lot of different people, but it has not yet been concretely defined.

"Consciousness may involve thoughts, sensations, perceptions, moods, emotions, dreams, and self-awareness. It has been defined from a biological and causal perspective as the act of autonomously modulating attentional and computational effort, usually with the goal of obtaining, retaining, or maximizing specific parameters, such as food, a safe environment, family, or mates.

The issue of what consciousness is, and to what extent and in what sense it exists, is the subject of much research in philosophy of mind, psychology, neuroscience, cognitive science, and artificial intelligence. Issues of practical concern include how the presence of consciousness can be assessed in severely ill individuals; how non-human consciousness can be measured; at what point in fetal development consciousness begins; and whether computers can achieve conscious states."

Consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Uh, yes, it has been concretely defined. Might want to use a source other than Wiki.
 
IndieVisible said:
Of course, my point exactly. Do you have any idea the measurable amount of brain activity for even mild thoughts? We are talking about lengthly in depth vivid dreams here at least there should be some measurable activity and this is what is problematic in this case.

These results suggests that what ever that activity was either was not part of the brain, or used unmeasurable activity to produce ideas, thoughts, dream, whatever you want to call it. It's just mind boogling to experts.
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Well, the problem with your hypothesis is that the brain continues to function in the dream state. It is simply that we are not consciously aware of its functioning. It occurs at a level below consciousness. So just because one is not cosciously aware does not mean the brain has ceased to function. In fact, it has been theororized that the "white light" so often reported in NDEs is in fact the rapid firing of neurons in the brain that occur with the reduction of oxygen supply.
 
jillio said:
Well, the problem with your hypothesis is that the brain continues to function in the dream state. It is simply that we are not consciously aware of its functioning. It occurs at a level below consciousness. So just because one is not cosciously aware does not mean the brain has ceased to function. In fact, it has been theororized that the "white light" so often reported in NDEs is in fact the rapid firing of neurons in the brain that occur with the reduction of oxygen supply.
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A theory could be wrong because the reasoning behind it is flawed or some new data comes along that disagrees with it. Or its validity is limited, since your theorizers have not had the near-death experience for comparison purposes.
 
Beowulf said:
A theory could be wrong because the reasoning behind it is flawed or some new data comes along that disagrees with it. Or its validity is limited, since your theorizers have not had the near-death experience for comparison purposes.
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And it is just as likely that the NDE is some sort of spiritual experience is a theory that is wrong. The problem is, both are theories, but one of them has scientific support through the measurement of brain activity and the known effects of an over firing of neurons.
 
jillio said:
And it is just as likely that the NDE is some sort of spiritual experience is a theory that is wrong. The problem is, both are theories, but one of them has scientific support through the measurement of brain activity and the known effects of an over firing of neurons.
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That is correct. Neither theory can disprove each other. :)
 
heartwheel said:
I'm with the egyptians, I feel awareness resides in the heart.
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You do realize that science has advanced somewhat from that time, and such has been disproven, don't you?

They used to think that mental illness was the result of possession, too, and would drill a hole in people's skull to allow the evil spirits to escape. Unfortunately, it also killed the person.

Thank goodness for scientific advances.
 
Yes, thank goodness I agree.

I can't cite too much evidence, mostly its just a feeling but I can direct you to great book "The Secret Teaching of Plants" by Stephen Harrod Buhner.

In this book he says that between 60-65 percent of the cells in the heart are neural cells and have a number of direct connections to the brain.

He says also that the heart has its own memory. That people receiving heart transplants often take on the behaviors of the original owners of the heart.

Fascinating stuff, to me.
...also have a vested interest in consciousness being in the heart as me brain ain't the swiftest, lol.

There's also another good book, Seat of Consciousness in Ancient Literature...

and I'm still a freak because I do think often times mental illness is a case of spirits, or actually a person's sensitivity to spirits.
 
heartwheel said:
Yes, thank goodness I agree.

I can't cite too much evidence, mostly its just a feeling but I can direct you to great book "The Secret Teaching of Plants" by Stephen Harrod Buhner.

In this book he says that between 60-65 percent of the cells in the heart are neural cells and have a number of direct connections to the brain.

He says also that the heart has its own memory. That people receiving heart transplants often take on the behaviors of the original owners of the heart.

Fascinating stuff, to me.
...also have a vested interest in consciousness being in the heart as me brain ain't the swiftest, lol.

There's also another good book, Seat of Consciousness in Ancient Literature...

and I'm still a freak because I do think often times mental illness is a case of spirits, or actually a person's sensitivity to spirits.
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Of course the heart is directly connected to the brain. Without such a connection, the heart would cease to beat. The brain controls autonomic functions. Hence, brain death, heart ceases to beat.

However, the purpose of the heart is to circulate oxygen enriched blood throughout the body, allowing tissues and organs to remain viable and functioning. It does not store memory.

The anecdote about transplant recipients taking on the behaviors of the donor are just that. Anecdote. Behavior is determined through conditioning and past experience, with a large dose of innate personality characteristics thrown in, not by the heart.

Thank heaven the mental health professionals disagree with your etiology of mental illness. Otherwise, we would be reduced to the days of trephining and be guilty of killing millions of people needlessly.
 
I have never experience with near-death. I am still alive and healthy.
 
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