President Obama reverses abortion-funds policy

[Jiro]

Yes I know. England permits abortion until 24 weeks. 3 weeks after a baby can survive out of the womb.

However, I believe obama wants to change things. He wants to permit abortion up until birth. That's what the problem is.

How about you worry about your own country? Obama has NOTHING to do with your country and he cannot do anything to change your country's law. If you ask me - USA is actually much more "pro-lifer" friendly than UK because we do not allow partial birth abortion, euthanasia, and late-term abortion.

 

[Dutch]

There is a reason they are outnumbered. They are in the minority. Another reason that Roe v Wade will never be overturned.

What was that about being off topic?

It depends upon how you ask the question(s), as far as who's in the minority.

 

[Hear Again]

How about you worry about your own country? Obama has NOTHING to do with your country and he cannot do anything to change your country's law. If you ask me - USA is actually much more "pro-lifer" friendly than UK because we do not allow partial birth abortion, euthanasia, and late-term abortion.

 

[shel90]

How about you worry about your own country? Obama has NOTHING to do with your country and he cannot do anything to change your country's law. If you ask me - USA is actually much more "pro-lifer" friendly than UK because we do not allow partial birth abortion, euthanasia, and late-term abortion.

That was sort of the same thing I was going to say regarding to that post.

 

[jillio]

Taken from the Roe vs. Wade case...

Roe v. Wade centrally held that a mother may abort her pregnancy for any reason, up until the "point at which the fetus becomes ‘viable.’"

So, any claims that the women are murdering anyone are moot because according the the law, aborting a viable fetus is illegal...

A fact that the anti-abortionists convienently leave out. They aren;t too fond of facts. They prefer fantasy.

 

[dreama]

"post abortion stress syndrome?" :roll:

So it's ok to laugh about a woman getting so depressed about her baby being murdered that she kills herself?

You wouldn't like it if someone laughed about your condition so why do you feel free to laugh about someone elses.

 

[jillio]

So it's ok to laugh about a woman getting so depressed about her baby being murdered that she kills herself?

You wouldn't like it if someone laughed about your condition so why do you feel free to laugh about someone elses.

A woman that unstable is certainly not stable enough to be a good parent.

 

[Hear Again]

So it's ok to laugh about a woman getting so depressed about her baby being murdered that she kills herself?

You wouldn't like it if someone laughed about your condition so why do you feel free to laugh about someone elses.

who's laughing, dreama? you're misinterpreting my post. i specifically used the rolling eyes emoticon to express my feelings about such a "diagnosis." ...and jillio is right. if a mother is that depressed over the loss of her child that she commits suicide, then perhaps she isn't worthy of being a parent in the first place.

as for people laughing about my bipolar, it has happened to me before. i could care less though because i know that they don't walk in my shoes and have absolutely no idea of what having the disorder is like. it's no skin off my back if they laugh -- let them.

 

[dreama]

How about you worry about your own country? Obama has NOTHING to do with your country and he cannot do anything to change your country's law. If you ask me - USA is actually much more "pro-lifer" friendly than UK because we do not allow partial birth abortion, euthanasia, and late-term abortion.

I agree. Unfortunately things are about to change. That's what worries me.

What makes you think I haven't done anything about my own country. They were going to make abortion even more liberal and extend it to Northern ireland. I wrote letters to my MP concerning this and signed petitions. So did a lot of other people.

The abortion amendments were scrapped.

We don't as yet permit Euthansia. That's still in it's paper form.

What more should I do?

 

[Jiro]

So it's ok to laugh about a woman getting so depressed about her baby being murdered that she kills herself?

You wouldn't like it if someone laughed about your condition so why do you feel free to laugh about someone elses.

huh? what's the difference? if she would commit suicide after abortion... what makes you think she would not commit suicide AFTER birth? Remember? Pregnancy Postpartum Depression thing? Clearly - she's not in right state of mind to have a baby in any case.

 

[jillio]

which was 12 weeks, right? (correct me if I'm wrong). UK allows it up to 24 weeks. HOW TWISTED IS THAT??? Your country, dreama!!!

Actually, no. 12 weeks is the cutoff for elective abortion. Viability is determinined to be 23 weeks.

What Is Fetal Viability?


A fetus is viable when it reaches an "anatomical threshold" when critical organs, such as the lungs and kidneys, can sustain independent life. Until the air sacs are mature enough to permit gases to pass into and out of the bloodstream, which is extremely unlikely until at least 23 weeks gestation (from last menstrual period), a fetus cannot be sustained even with a respirator, which can force air into the lungs but cannot pass gas from the lungs into the bloodstream.(4)

While medical advances have increased the survival of infants born between 24 and 28 weeks of gestation, the point of viability has moved little over the past decade; at the earliest, it remains at approximately 24 weeks, where it was when the Supreme Court decided Roe -- a fact acknowledged by the court in its recent decision in PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF SOUTHEASTERN PENNSYLVANIA V. CASEY.(5) A study of infant survival by researchers at Case Western Reserve University Medical School found that the rate of survival for infants born before 25 weeks gestation has not improved appreciably in recent years.(6)

According to a brief submitted to the Supreme Court in WEBSTER V. REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH SERVICES(7) by more than 150 distinguished scientists and physicians, "There are no medical developments anticipated in the foreseeable future that would bring about adequate fetal lung function prior to 23 or 24 weeks of gestation."(8)

Abortion and Fetal Viability - Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California

 

[Jiro]

I agree. Unfortunately things are about to change. That's what worries me.

What makes you think I haven't done anything about my own country. They were going to make abortion even more liberal and extend it to Northern ireland. I wrote letters to my MP concerning this and signed petitions. So did a lot of other people.

The abortion amendments were scrapped.

We don't as yet permit Euthansia. That's still in it's paper form.

What more should I do?

with all the time and burning passion you spent in promoting your agenda to my country.... you might actually be able to gain some traction in your country. I do applaud you for your effort but...

noble agenda, wrong target.

 

[jillio]

NO!

Since the baby is seperate from the mother the baby is deserving of her own rights to life. It's as simple as that.


Does that answer your question.

The baby isn't separate from the mother. That is why it must be delivered and the umbilical cord that keeps it attached and feeding off of the mother cut.

 

[jillio]

Based on what sources?

Probably some blog.

 

[Dutch]

And yet many have survived 22 weeks and earlier.

Planned Parenthood of California? Was it you that was whining about the sources Dreama or whoever was using?

 

[jillio]

How, if we are so broke? That's what I am wondering...

Actually, the money has been made available to these health organizations all along. They just restricted it to those that swore not to give comprehensive care.

 

[dreama]

huh? what's the difference? if she would commit suicide after abortion... what makes you think she would not commit suicide AFTER birth? Remember? Pregnancy Postpartum Depression thing? Clearly - she's not in right state of mind to have a baby in any case.

She committed suicide BECAUSE she was presurized into killing her baby.

That doesn't make her an unfit mother. She just made a mistake that she regretted so much that she felt she could no longer live with herself.

It's a very sad state to be in because the pro abortion lot would regard her condition as non existant while some elements of the pro life lot might blame her for her babies death. She might be afraid to turn to them in case they blame her. Maybe she blames herself. I can't think of a worse situation to be in. Can you?

 

[shel90]

Actually, the money has been made available to these health organizations all along. They just restricted it to those that swore not to give comprehensive care.

I see...I am glad that they restricted to those who wont provide comprehensive care...

 

[jillio]

Yes I know. England permits abortion until 24 weeks. 3 weeks after a baby can survive out of the womb.

However, I believe obama wants to change things. He wants to permit abortion up until birth. That's what the problem is.

Wrong. Better check the point of viability again. As well as the law, because England's law only permits abortion up to 24 weeks in the case of a birth defect that is incompatible with life...meaning the fetus will die before it it born or during the birth process and never be able to sustain independent life, or in the case of medical neccessity to preserve the mother's life.

If you people are going to discuss the legal issues, you really do need to inform yourself on what the law actually is.

 

[Byrdie714]

actually no. There are very few intelligent pro-lifers (non-religious) but there are many intelligent pro-lifers and their reasons are purely religious. Unfortunately - their religious views have no standings in legal case.

Again - the question of Roe v. Wade was "Does a woman have the right to privacy of the decision to do so?"

Why is it so hard for you guys to answer that question? Now you know why abortion was finally legalized.

Because they can't answer the question.

By that I take it you mean:

"Does a woman have the right to abort her baby?"

The answer to that is No. It Wasn't a difficult question to answer at all. But I suppose you are just not liking the answer.

Abortion is not always going to be legal you know.

sorry but that wasn't the question in Roe v. Wade case. The question was asked by Supreme Court that determined the legalization of abortion. So I ask again -

"Does a woman have the right to privacy of the decision to do so?" YES or NO?

Dreama can't even answer your own question without twisting the words.

I can voice my opinions in this thread, but not to YOUR question. Understand ?

Since you said that I just disappointed my own pro-lifers ? What ever. Each on their own.

Why can't you answer his question? Because you know he is right?

NO!

Since the baby is seperate from the mother the baby is deserving of her own rights to life. It's as simple as that.


Does that answer your question.

It is not seperate from the host until it is expelled from the host's body.

Then it's a baby.