Police use stun gun on 6-year-old

[Taylor]

Perhaps I'm a little biased when it comes to police, I'll attempt to keep my personal feeling neutral.

First, nobody here is in the officers shoes. The only one who can make a judgement in any situation are the people are there. One problem officers face is that there is little time to make life or death decisions. Those decisions have to be made at that moment. For people reading this story, you've had time to think about the situation and scrutinize it accordingly. The officers were not afforded the many discussions taking place.

Tazering a child would seem a little extreme, but here is some points to think about. A tazer is a non-lethal means of subdoing a subject. The officers are not there to cause the child harm. Their job is to prevent him from harming himself or harming others.

The child had already cut himself repeatedly. You stand to do the child more harm by jumping on him. A grown man (or men in this case) are obviously much bigger than the child. They would risk breaking the kids arms, legs or possibly doing internal harm to the child. Would you still feel the same had the headline read 'Officers break 4 ribs of 6 year old child'.

As for just snatching the piece of glass out of the kids hand, your then talking officer safety. If the kid is set on harming himself (as he was already doing in this case), he is going to have a tight grip on that piece of glass. If the officer had ahold of the kids hand, your still presented with the problem of getting the glass from that grip, which would mean grabbing the other end of the glass. You're now presented yourself with the problem of your own safety in grabbing a bloody piece of glass from somebody with your own hand. Of course, you could take a baton and hit the kids hand, but again you are presented with the problem of causing that child permanent harm and risk breaking bones.

Using a tazer, while uncomfortable for the child, allows a non lethal means of stopping the kid from harming himself. He had already been cut several times. What if he had cut an artery. A cut to the leg or arm can be fatal and it wouldn't take long to bleed to death (even with officers on scene giving medical attention). What if the kid is holding the piece of glass to his leg or other body part....you risk even more injury and a deeper wound (again risk of cutting an artery).

While using a tazer would seem extreme, this is a very extreme situation. It is not normal for a 6 year old to be suicidal and has already injured himself. I don't know about you, but that would be classified as an extreme situation.

It is also said that one officer caught him while being tazed to prevent him from falling onto the ground. If the officers were not sincerely concerned about the childs safety, they could have just tazed him until he hit the floor until he had no clue what was going on.

To see if I was wrong, I've posted the responses from fellow officers. Here are just some of the replies:

I don't think the officer did anything wrong. My opinion. I think it would have been worse if the officer would have tried to get the glass away and possibly broke one of the kid's bones in the process or worse yet, the officer would have received an injury. And from what I understand tasers carry the same weight as OC, and that would have been much worse for everyone in the room.

I just hope the kid gets some help. If he's doing this at 6, imagine what he's going to be like at 18.

For those of you who do not know what OC is, it would have been the use of chemicals, such as tear gas or pepper spray (both would be more harmful to the child than the tazer).

I can't think of any reasons that 2 police officers could not disarm a 6 year old with a piece of broken glass. If they felt like this was their best option, then they need to get into another profession. There is no excuse to use a taser on a 6 year old. Period.

I think the core issue is whether a hard strike to the child's arm is a higher or lower level of force than the tazar. I guess they could have wrestled the glass out of the child's hand causing further cuts to the child and probably the officers. If you have ever taken something from someones hand with the person resisting the taking, you know that they can get a death grip on the item, even a 6 year old. Since this wasn't a knife with a handle, pulling this out of the child's hand would most probably would have caused further injury to at least the child.

I don't claim to be an expert on the tazar. It seems to be a tool that works well in many situations. If the reports of the manufacturer are correct, the only danger to the recipient is the hooks. I guess my question is what is the lesser evil.

I really do not have a problem with using the tazer on a 6 yo or a 66 yo. The officers asked if it was against policy and it wasn't and in their opinion it was their bst option. I think that they could have used other techniques to subdue the kid but I am not going to second guess the officers on scene.

Times have changed a lot. When I younger, 6 yo's were not out of control. This is not a case of a 6 yo acting up. This 6 yo has a weapon and has already caused harm. This isn't something that swift wap on the ass would have corrected.

 

[Roadrunner]

Taylor, you've made quite an interesting case in point, considering it's coming from a perspective view as an officer such as yourself--
Definitely it's easier to go through the scenario and make sound judgements on the actions put on by the officers at the scene while the officers themselves only have minutes, seconds to make a vital decision that'll serve the outcome in the best way possible for all involved...an 'outsider' may jump to conclusions irrationally thinking it's totally uncalled for when using a tazer on a small child without giving in to the considerations that were presented at the time and I commend on the officers' choice/decision seeking the best options available to lessen anymore damage, harm to others and more importantly, perhaps saving the life of this young child!

 

[VamPyroX]

Another child getting shocked for no real good reason? *Shakes head* What are they thinking??? *____*

It was not for "no good reason". It was either she run into the traffic and risk getting run over or shock her on the spot to make her stop running.

 

[VamPyroX]

50,000 volts on Boys physical.. GEEZ... too powerful for little body...i think they chose wrong weapon to boy but why not they ask His mother to have Permit or Have her talk to him on Phone? i think that is very wrong for police use stun gun. Why did police to learn Self-Defend in class? Why not use Self Defend to boy instead Stun Gun? It is more easy for Police behind of boy's back and grab him. It will be less hurt than worse stun gun.
Dont you agree w/ me ?
God.. i hope Mayor of Fla will have to Deal with Fla of Polices like suspend or fired from job which they chose wrong use as stun gun.
Poor 6 yrs old boy...I cant image that 6 yrs old is so small, short, and not strong like Police... What the hell did Police think??? Also principal Maria?? what the hell she let police deal with Stun gun? They have no Common sense....I hope Parents will appeal and make sue to Fla Polices for using wrongly weapon to their child.

50,000 volts isn't bad since they used a very low amperage for the shock. If applied correctly, you could be killed at 2,000 volts.

Secondly, the kid is running into traffic... do you think the police are going to have time to pick up the phone and call the kid's mom just to say "ma'am, your kid is running into the street and is going to get hit by the car so do I have your permission to use a taser to stop your kid from running into traffic? Oh, what is a taser? It's a device that sends a temporary shock that stops a person from whatever action he or she is doing. Never mind ma'am. Your kid just got run over by a truck. I guess I didn't call fast enough. My apologies."

 

[Taylor]

I would be the first to be critical if these officers were out of line. I try to look at things like this from the outside. One thing that is of concern is that there was time to contact a supervisor and ask. In law enforcement, that doesn't take too long (not like getting a supervisor with the phone company). The supervisor told them to use the tazer. Additionally, the officers in this case did follow thier policy. That departments policy only forbids the use of of a tazer against pregnant women. It has nothing in regards to children. I still say that it was probably justified given the child had already injured himself and was continuing to do so.

 

[Reba]

I would be the first to be critical if these officers were out of line. I try to look at things like this from the outside. One thing that is of concern is that there was time to contact a supervisor and ask. In law enforcement, that doesn't take too long (not like getting a supervisor with the phone company). The supervisor told them to use the tazer. Additionally, the officers in this case did follow thier policy. That departments policy only forbids the use of of a tazer against pregnant women. It has nothing in regards to children. I still say that it was probably justified given the child had already injured himself and was continuing to do so.

You have made excellant points.

I think one result of this incident should be a review of the Taser policy in regards to children. It would probably be a good thing for all concerned for the Taser makers to investigate more thoroughly the short and long term effects on children of various ages and sizes, and for the police departments to incorporate that information into their policy writing. I know that the Tasers are tested on adults but for obvious reasons they cannot be tested on children, so there may be some gaps in full knowledge here.

 

[Toonces]

I would be the first to be critical if these officers were out of line. I try to look at things like this from the outside. One thing that is of concern is that there was time to contact a supervisor and ask. In law enforcement, that doesn't take too long (not like getting a supervisor with the phone company). The supervisor told them to use the tazer. Additionally, the officers in this case did follow thier policy. That departments policy only forbids the use of of a tazer against pregnant women. It has nothing in regards to children. I still say that it was probably justified given the child had already injured himself and was continuing to do so.

*Grumbles* But I have to admit you do have good points. And yes, they should do some research on short and long term effects on children, just to make sure there won't be any serious side effects when tazer guns are used on the kids. @_@

 

[Taylor]

*Grumbles* But I have to admit you do have good points. And yes, they should do some research on short and long term effects on children, just to make sure there won't be any serious side effects when tazer guns are used on the kids. @_@

I grumble too at the thought of it. Its sad when something like this happens. While I can go through some scenarios, nobody likes to see it happen. Same with suicides, robberies and any other crime. We all wish they didn't happen, but they do. Sometimes the extreme situations come into play.
I still believe the tazer was safer than more damage from the piece of glass, both short term and long term.

This could also be a situation that wasn't in their policy because nobody thought of it. Policy is created on past experience and *what if* situations. It would be impossible to come up with a policy for everything. At our department, we have several large binders regarding our department policy that was given to me on the day I started. I also get updates several times a week. Its also part of my job to know what is in all of those binders verbatum (and any changes that occur). I'm sure there are situations that I may come across that aren't in there, and then it would be time to call my supervisor and ask.

 

[Toonces]

Just thought I'd post a follow-up article on using Tasers on the kids.

Miami police review policy after Tasers used on kids

 

[Taylor]

Thanks for posting that link. It will be interesting to see if any changes take place. According to the manufacturer, it can be safely used on 60lbs or larger. It can be difficult to believe a manufacturer as everyone claims that their product is safe....and who knows, they may find themselves in a lawsuit from the boys family. If they can go after gun makers, than I'm sure they will try the same with tazer makers. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

 

[VamPyroX]

Thanks for posting that link. It will be interesting to see if any changes take place. According to the manufacturer, it can be safely used on 60lbs or larger. It can be difficult to believe a manufacturer as everyone claims that their product is safe....and who knows, they may find themselves in a lawsuit from the boys family. If they can go after gun makers, than I'm sure they will try the same with tazer makers. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

Actually, anything could be considered unsafe. Think about it. We're not allowed to go on the plane with nail clippers! A kid could be hurt with a baseball bat! A kid could get hurt falling off the slide or monkey bars! Anyone could get hurt in anyway.

 

[Taylor]

True, but if your intent is to stop the kid from stabbing himself, you don't want to send him into cardiac arrest. Its one of those situations you have to ask if the risk outweighs the odds.

 

[VamPyroX]

True, but if your intent is to stop the kid from stabbing himself, you don't want to send him into cardiac arrest. Its one of those situations you have to ask if the risk outweighs the odds.

The shocks are not strong enough to give them heart attacks. You'd have to have the amperage higher in order to do that.

 

[Beowulf]

There HAVE been several deaths as a direct result of these tasers.
I recommend that all police officers get shot with tasers before they graduate from the Academy, just so they'll know what it feels like.
Then after that, maybe once a month.

 

[Reba]

I recommend that all police officers get shot with tasers before they graduate from the Academy, just so they'll know what it feels like.

Maybe Taylor has more info, but I think some departments do put their officers thru Taser experience. I know some departments do the same with pepper spray and tear gas. In the military, members are sent thru NBC warfare training, and as part of that training they are exposed to non-lethal (but very irritating gas) in an enclosed area.

 

[VamPyroX]

There HAVE been several deaths as a direct result of these tasers.
I recommend that all police officers get shot with tasers before they graduate from the Academy, just so they'll know what it feels like.
Then after that, maybe once a month.

Yes, there has been several deaths. However, you have to look at the situation... what would you have done if you only had a taser in your hand and saw a crazy little girl heading for the highway?

 

[Beowulf]

A taser is meant to be used at close range. If I was close enough to "a crazy little girl heading to the highway," I would simply have tackled her.
Of course some in here would argue that the cop should chase her until he gets close enough to zap her in the butt, and for some reason I find that perverted.

 

[Reba]

Beowulf,

Maybe this is what you were referring to?

Stun guns at center of death investigations
Associated Press
Story last updated at 7:13 a.m. Friday, August 27, 2004

PHOENIX--The president of Arizona-based Taser International denies that the company is pressuring a South Carolina coroner to reverse an autopsy finding in a stun gun-related death.

William Teasley died Aug. 16 in a struggle with deputies at a detention center in Anderson County.

County Deputy Coroner Charlie Boseman said his office and the hospital pathologist who conducted the autopsy received calls from Taser officials asking that the stun gun be excluded from the report.

"They didn't like us making that statement in our report," Boseman told The Arizona Republic. "They just wanted us to (cite) the underlying medical diseases."

Teasley, 31, reportedly suffered from multiple health problems, including an enlarged heart and spleen, hardened arteries and an obstructed airway.

Boseman, who has been with the Coroner's Office for 34 years and has worked on hundreds of autopsies, said the cause of Teasley's death was cardiac arrhythmia due to health problems and the Taser shock.

Tom Smith, president of Scottsdale, Ariz.-based Taser International, said "it's too early" to challenge the findings in Teasley's case, but he denies any attempt to pressure the coroner or change the autopsy.

Taser officials called to answer any questions the coroner had about the stun gun, according to Smith.

He said the company also sent representatives to South Carolina to assist in the investigation of Teasley's death, which is being conducted by the State Law Enforcement Division.

Marketed as an alternative to deadly force, the Taser stun gun is used by more than 5,000 law enforcement agencies, including some in South Carolina and the Lowcountry.

The Arizona Republic said medical examiners nationwide have linked the Taser stun gun to at least seven deaths since June 2002.

Meanwhile, Phoenix police were investigating the death Tuesday of a 27-year-old man who took three stun-gun shots during a struggle with police officers.

The autopsy Wednesday of Lawrence Samuel Davis showed no obvious cause of death, said Sgt. Randy Force, a spokesman for Phoenix police.

A toxicology report was expected before a cause of death could be determined, he said.

 

[Reba]

Another perspective on Taser use:

Story last updated at 7:19 a.m. Tuesday, October 26, 2004
School officers stun student with Taser
BY ANDY PARAS
Of The Post and Courier Staff
WALTERBORO--A 16-year-old Colleton County High School student was stunned with a Taser gun and arrested after he resisted deputies and caused a school resource officer to fall to the ground, authorities said Monday.

The school's two resource officers repeatedly told the 6-foot, 236-pound student to stop resisting before stunning him with 50,000 volts of electricity for three seconds, Colleton County Sheriff's Chief Deputy Steve Bazzle said.

The officers decided against using pepper spray on the youth. "They believed the Taser to be the logical choice at the time," Bazzle said.

The student, whose name wasn't released because he's a juvenile, is charged with disturbing school. School officials said he was suspended for 10 days and faces the possibility of expulsion following a hearing later this week.

The student's foster mother said she's unhappy with how the deputy handled the situation. She said the boy denied resisting arrest, saying he struggled because the officers were hurting him.

The incident occurred amid a national debate over the safety of so-called "less-lethal" weapons. Detractors say more than 50 people have died after being shocked with Taser guns during the past two years, including an Anderson man who was stunned in August during a scuffle with detention officers.

Proponents say the weapons never have directly resulted in a death, and that they cut down on the number of injuries to both officers and suspects.

Geoffrey Alpert is a use-of-force expert and chairman of the University of South Carolina's Criminal Justice Department. "You don't like to use them against children," Alpert said, "but sometimes the kids can be as big and nasty as adults."

An incident report states the school's two resource officers went to the math hall Friday afternoon to assist with a student who was not cooperating with administrators. It says the student had a confrontation with another student during lunch and that two administrators tried to find out what was going on.

The report states the boy was "loud and unruly" in the hallway when officers responded. When the boy refused to calm down, the officer tried to handcuff him, Bazzle said.

The teenager pulled away from the officer, he said. Both officers tried to control the boy and were able to get one handcuff on him, Bazzle said. He said the student continued to fight despite their commands, and at some point one of the officers fell to the floor.

"He put the officers in a position where they had to detain him," Bazzle said. "They had to bring him under control before it escalated into more physical violence." The officer placed the weapon against the boy's body and pulled the trigger for three seconds, Bazzle said. The weapon is automatically set to fire for five seconds, but Bazzle said three seconds was all they needed to get the boy to stop resisting.

Schools Superintendent Charles Gale said he's not going to second-guess the deputies' methods. He said he has a problem with any student getting physical with an adult.

"If they get physical with a police officer, what are they going to do to a teacher?" Gale asked.

Alpert said departments follow a series of steps that dictate the amount of force they should use. It starts with verbal commands and typically follows in this order: soft-hand contact, hard-hand contact and then intermediate weapons, such as Taser guns, pepper spray and batons.

Alpert said if the officers' accounts are accurate in this case, he sees no problem with what they did. "It's a lot better than being hit with a baton," he said.

Bazzle said the deputies chose not to use pepper spray, which often contaminates the area and gets in officers' eyes. Had the same incident happened before June, when the sheriff's office first issued the weapons to deputies and jail officers, they probably would have used pepper spray, he said.

Authorities said the boy was transported to the state Department of Juvenile Justice in Columbia but returned home.

 

[Beowulf]

Sighhhh.....
Thanks for the post, Reba.
I just dunno...I may be going off topic here a bit, but do you think that maybe we are doping up too many kids today? Ritalin and other stuff?
Could that be a contributing factor to a lot of frustrated, unruly behavior?