Phonetic approach?

[jillio]

I was trained to internalize the sounds and used the phonetic approach when learning how to read and write. I can "imagine" sounds in my head when I am thinking in English even though I cant hear them perfectly. Wouldnt that be internalization of spoken and auditory language?

To a degree, yes. But then, you obviously have a great deal of usable residual hearing. Its not so much internalization of language, but auditory memory of a taught langauge.

But let me ask you this. When you read, do you "hear" the individual sounds in your head, or do you think of the whole concept represnted by the printed word. In other words, do you pronounce each word in your head as you read it, ot do you just recognize the shape of the word, and think of the meaning?

 

[jillio]

What is the best way to organize so students can benfit from all the different paths to learn to read? To ask this question more precise, I will try to make an answer you can disagree or agree on.

I imagine it can be done this way: students are sent to speech training individually 30-60 minutes a week up to 3th or 4th grade, depending on maturity and skills. The reason this not should be done togheter in classrooms is that students don't learn much from each other trying to utter words the right way with right mouthshapes. Also, non-speech kids can feel stupid, while fluent speakers does not get challenges.

Learning/writing practices and lessons can be done in groups, both methods, phonetic and whole language, with a teacher fluent in sign language. It is also possible to give individual lessons to students in groups, matching their literacy level. The teacher have to know how to make correct mouthshapes in teaching the phonetic approach, but listening skills does not matter much. So this teacher can be either deaf, HH or hearing. The most important language skill here would be ASL.

Am I on the right path, or do you have other suggestions? Are there detalis that are not critical in a bilingual enviroment when teaching literacy, compared to others? Are hearing ability important in a teacher teaching reading and writing skills? I was not sure if I should start a new thread on this one, but decided to put it in here, as it's good information in earlier posts in this thread.

Sounds to me as if you are on the right track, flip. I admire you for trying to see this from all sides, and to try to truly understand what is going on educationally and developmentally with deaf students.

 

[shel90]

To a degree, yes. But then, you obviously have a great deal of usable residual hearing. Its not so much internalization of language, but auditory memory of a taught langauge.

But let me ask you this. When you read, do you "hear" the individual sounds in your head, or do you think of the whole concept represnted by the printed word. In other words, do you pronounce each word in your head as you read it, ot do you just recognize the shape of the word, and think of the meaning?

When I read I "hear" the whole word, not the individual sounds. I pronounce it in my head...my brother just recognizes the shape of the word and think of the meaning.

That's why I am working hard to not sound out words when I am signing cuz it just messes up my ASL. I am getting there.

 

[jillio]

When I read I "hear" the whole word, not the individual sounds. I pronounce it in my head...my brother just recognizes the shape of the word and think of the meaning.

That's why I am working hard to not sound out words when I am signing cuz it just messes up my ASL. I am getting there.

Thank you! That was exactly the point I was trying to make. You were educated orally, so you have to go through an extra cognitive step in processing what you read, as well as in your ASL. Your brother, on the other hand, when reading, doesn't ahve to gothrough that extra step. He goes from visual English to visual concept without having to process from his auditory memory. Much less confusing. And, it just illustrates that there are many ways to teach reading and literacy skills.

 

[shel90]

Thank you! That was exactly the point I was trying to make. You were educated orally, so you have to go through an extra cognitive step in processing what you read, as well as in your ASL. Your brother, on the other hand, when reading, doesn't ahve to gothrough that extra step. He goes from visual English to visual concept without having to process from his auditory memory. Much less confusing. And, it just illustrates that there are many ways to teach reading and literacy skills.

Do hearing people process what they read the way I do or do they do it differently? Never thought of asking that one..

 

[flip]

We have speech teachers so those kids' whose parents requested speech in their IEPs get pulled out for speech and oral skill development.

Our CI program is still relatively new so we are still in the pilot stages. We use spoken English with those who benefit from their CIs or are HOH for one on one sessions.

Yes, we have deaf/hh teachers in all grades from PreK all the way to HS as well as hearing too.

We use ASL to teach new concepts and do a lot of modeling when it comes to writing. Important that the kids read read read read and discuss different reading strategies.

Ok!
Do you mean you use ASL in group sessions with CI and HOH students, and speak in one on one sessions? Or do the CI kids use spoken language in group sessions, too? If you do not speak in groups, is this due to CI/HOH students not hearing good enough?

I forget to add the word "english" when I asked about deaf/hh teachers from preK to HS. To be more precise, do you use deaf/hh teachers to teach english in the first grades? When I talk about teaching, I think of one teacher responsible for the whole english session, not a deaf person as an assistant, or in cooperation with a hearing person, either during the sessions, or splitting up sessions between hearing and deaf teachers. I perhaps sounds a bit picky on this question, but I am curious because one HH here was denied to teach english because of hearing abilities. So I am dead curious to know practices other places

 

[jillio]

Do hearing people process what they read the way I do or do they do it differently? Never thought of asking that one..

Actually, its a very similar process. And we also have the problems that you have with your ASL. Its difficult for a hearing person not to attach sound to everything and to think in purely visual concept. Just as its difficult for a deaf child to learn to attach sound to everything and stop thinking in purely visual concept. I've been signing long enough now that I can almost feel the switch in my brain when I start signing. And I can carry on a whole conversation with complete understanding without ever thinking about an English word. In fact, if I have to put my ASL into English, it takes me a minute to do so. That's why I admire the skill of terps.

 

[shel90]

Actually, its a very similar process. And we also have the problems that you have with your ASL. Its difficult for a hearing person not to attach sound to everything and to think in purely visual concept. Just as its difficult for a deaf child to learn to attach sound to everything and stop thinking in purely visual concept. I've been signing long enough now that I can almost feel the switch in my brain when I start signing. And I can carry on a whole conversation with complete understanding without ever thinking about an English word. In fact, if I have to put my ASL into English, it takes me a minute to do so. That's why I admire the skill of terps.

Same here about admiring the skills of terps.

My students this year rely on the phonetic approach to identify words despite their level of deafness and being exposed to ASL since birth (except for 1). Probably cuz they arent language delayed and understand the purpose of the phonetical approach. Perfect example of ASL not interfering with using the phonetic approach..in fact, having ASL as their first language enchances their use of the phonetic approach. Too bad many people think the opposite! :roll:

 

[jillio]

Same here about admiring the skills of terps.

My students this year rely on the phonetic approach to identify words despite their level of deafness and being exposed to ASL since birth (except for 1). Probably cuz they arent language delayed and understand the purpose of the phonetical approach. Perfect example of ASL not interfering with using the phonetic approach..in fact, having ASL as their first language enchances their use of the phonetic approach. Too bad many people think the opposite! :roll:

BINGO!

 

[Cloggy]

It has been proven that deaf children from deaf families who use ASL at home master reading and writing skills at ease so it shows as long as the child has a strong first language whether it is in sign or spoken language, reading and writing is easier to master. If the child doesnt have a strong first language, then the phonetic or learning ASL later wont help as much...they will contine to struggle with literacy skills. I have see that first hand since becoming a teacher for the deaf 5 years ago.

So, Shel...
What happened here. I can see L1 is ASL.... what happened here ??

I think so not makes sense observe Dr is not structure smart and not much ignored to care keep up forces must wearing cochlear implant. I think so not fair to people oral and focus to write on paper test that is missing to interpeter is not understand teach you what is happens problem show up the if you will upset to argue to SPARC is horrible that is not nice friendly. I don't like means to people will hurt to you some happening if you suppose to bad behavior or crying then not successfully better perfect to understand how learn how not sure true story about to failed on system. I am complaint to sue to Preimer is government to listen to respect to common same to people want to support to deaf want to happy. I know don't want to force or hurting harassment bullying or teacher want to mad to you will getting worse nerve scary and anxiety.

I think so some people stupid doctor not smart and not analyze find out happens is problem. I know very sadly I want to open R.J.D William School in Saskatoon closed in 1991. People deaf complaint to sue to government to ingored to school old deaf in law. I want to change new project to in fix new improve school will start to school. I want to happy and want to fair to friends lots of deaf fun interesting to involves in School open is good.

Why is this not English ?

 

[jillio]

So, Shel...
What happened here. I can see L1 is ASL.... what happened here ??


Why is this not English ?

What does this have to do with the phonetic approach to teaching reading and writing? You, once again, have gone off topic in order to promote your own agenda.

 

[shel90]

So, Shel...
What happened here. I can see L1 is ASL.... what happened here ??


Why is this not English ?

From what I remember, he has a CI and was raised orally. Nothing to do with ASL.

And your point was?

 

[Cloggy]

From what I remember, he has a CI and was raised orally. Nothing to do with ASL.

And your point was?

Looks to me he's writing ASL...
You explained how a strong L1 (which he appearently has - ASL) makes it easy to read and write english.
If that is the case, what happened?


(And Jillio... go read a paper..)

 

[shel90]

Looks to me he's writing ASL...
You explained how a strong L1 (which he appearently has - ASL) makes it easy to read and write english.
If that is the case, what happened?


(And Jillio... go read a paper..)

That is not ASL he is writing. LOL!

I think what happened was that he was deprived of language during his formative years so even learning ASL later on still wouldnt solve his literacy problems. That is happening to too many deaf children and it pisses me off cuz it is such a waste trying to focus on oral language only and then later on introduce them to ASL when it was apparent they couldnt pick up on spoken language.

What about Deaf children from Deaf families who have higher literacy skills than deaf children from hearing families? They were exposed to ASL during their first 5 years therefore making the transition to learning English easier.

 

[jillio]

Looks to me he's writing ASL...
You explained how a strong L1 (which he appearently has - ASL) makes it easy to read and write english.
If that is the case, what happened?


(And Jillio... go read a paper..)

At least I know what I'm reading when I'm reading it!