Parents want hearing school to get state funding

Tousi said:
In the early days of PL 94-142 when even the lawyers couldn't firm up what LRE really meant, we at the CA School for the Deaf determined that LRE meant a child, a natural language, visual learner was in a lesser restrictive environment by being at our school, engaging in all sorts of activities with other deaf students as opposed to the isolation of a mainstreamed classroom.
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Right, and if the child's natural language is spoken English, they should also hae the right to attend a school with other deaf kids and deaf teachers, rather than be alone in the mainstream. That is what an oral deaf school provides.
 
faire_jour said:
So, you are suggesting an enviroment that has what? One part for oral kids, another for ASL? Or just sending a student who doesn't know or use ASL to a Deaf school?
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I'm suggesting that they share the same building. and share the same teachers like PE (they probably need an oral interpreter) or other minor subjects or share the same lunchroom. But have their own teamwork of teachers for major subjects and classes Remember, This a CI child will NOT be the only CI kids in that school, it will be like being in an oral school.
 
jillio said:
The ASL environement is less restrictive for the oral child than an oral environment is for the ASL using child. Put an oral child in an ASL environment and see how quickly they begin communicating in ASL with peers and teachers. Without an intermediary.
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But neither is the LRE. That is why there should be a variety of placements.
 
A said:
I'm suggesting that they share the same building. and share the same teachers like PE (they probably need an oral interpreter) or other minor subjects or share the same lunchroom. But have their own teamwork of teachers for major subjects and classes Remember, This a CI child will NOT be the only CI kids in that school, it will be like being in an oral school.
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I think that would be a WONDERFUL idea.
 
jillio said:
There are a variety of placements. Choose the one you want and deal with the consequences of that choice.
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I am lucky enough to live in a place that offers many different placements. Other people do not have that priviledge. There are places that are rural, and the mainstream is the only option, or where they are only offered one language choice or modality. That's isn't appropriate.
 
This is not about oral education... this is about 'cater to me, my kid is special'.

They HAVE a school available to them at no cost. Use it. Move near the school and enroll your kid. That's what I have to do. THEY made the choice for their child to be oral. THEY decided private school was best. THEY decided not to choose to relocate near a more affordable option. The cost is theirs to pay.

If these parents get their private school paid for, I want the schools to pay for my move so my kid can go to the state school... or they need to open a school near us. I want to be catered to, too.
 
faire_jour said:
Right, and if the child's natural language is spoken English, they should also hae the right to attend a school with other deaf kids and deaf teachers, rather than be alone in the mainstream. That is what an oral deaf school provides.
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Ahh...but the law doesn't provide for that. That is where parental choice comes in. You want your child in a private oral school for those reasons then you pay the tuition. What the law provides for is that the child be educated . If their natural language is spoken English, then spoken English is already available in the mainstream classroom. The law does not provide for the school system to go above and beyond that.
 
WeeBeastie said:
This is not about oral education... this is about 'cater to me, my kid is special'.

They HAVE a school available to them at no cost. Use it. Move near the school and enroll your kid. That's what I have to do. THEY made the choice for their child to be oral. THEY decided private school was best. THEY decided not to choose to relocate near a more affordable option. The cost is theirs to pay.

If these parents get their private school paid for, I want the schools to pay for my move so my kid can go to the state school... or they need to open a school near us. I want to be catered to, too.
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Bingo!
 
WeeBeastie said:
This is not about oral education... this is about 'cater to me, my kid is special'.

They HAVE a school available to them at no cost. Use it. Move near the school and enroll your kid. That's what I have to do. THEY made the choice for their child to be oral. THEY decided private school was best. THEY decided not to choose to relocate near a more affordable option. The cost is theirs to pay.

If these parents get their private school paid for, I want the schools to pay for my move so my kid can go to the state school... or they need to open a school near us. I want to be catered to, too.
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So fight for it! How do programs get changed unless it is through the actions of passionate people? USD didn't offer an ASL program so the parents who wanted one started one. If what the school offers isn't appropriate, fight to get your child what they need, don't just live with it!
 
jillio said:
Ahh...but the law doesn't provide for that. That is where parental choice comes in. You want your child in a private oral school for those reasons then you pay the tuition. What the law provides for is that the child be educated . If their natural language is spoken English, then spoken English is already available in the mainstream classroom. The law does not provide for the school system to go above and beyond that.
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Yes it does. Schools contract with private schools everyday when they can not provide appropriate services.

http://www.listen-up.org/rights2/ruling2.htm
 
faire_jour said:
So fight for it! How do programs get changed unless it is through the actions of passionate people? USD didn't offer an ASL program so the parents who wanted one started one. If what the school offers isn't appropriate, fight to get your child what they need, don't just live with it!
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The point is, the option this parent wants is available. They just don't want to pay for the option they want.

See...with parental choice comes responsibility. You make the choice regarding the environment you want your child to be educated in, then you take responsibility for providing it. That is not the states responsibility. Part of choosing an oral environment means that you will no doubt, in the vast majority of cases, have your child placed in the mainstream with minimal accommodations. That is the direct consequence of your choice. If you want a private placement, then it is your responsibility to provide it.

There are no doubt many hearing children that would benefit from a private placement. Who pays their tuition costs? Their parents do.
 
faire_jour said:
Yes it does. Schools contract with private schools everyday when they can not provide appropriate services.
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No it doesn't. The law does not provide that a child is entitled to be in the company of deaf students and teachers. It provides that she be in an oral environment if that is they way she communicates and has been educated.

But this child is being provided appropriate services. She is an oral only child. That can be accommodated in the mainstream classroom. The mainstream school uses the same language she does. We are not talking about an ASL using child where the language is not available in the mainstream.

This is a parent that wants their cake and to be able to eat it, too. They choose an oral only environment presumably for the same reason that all parents choose an oral environment. They hold the mistaken belief that the child will be able to function in a hearing environment as long as they have spoken language. Well, the child is being placed in the very environment they want her to function in. But that isn't good enough. Now they want special consideration, as well. It doesn't work that way. They made their choice; they need to take responsibility for the consequences of that choice. This is their child, and it is their responsibility to provide for a private placement.
 
jillio said:
The point is, the option this parent wants is available. They just don't want to pay for the option they want.

See...with parental choice comes responsibility. You make the choice regarding the environment you want your child to be educated in, then you take responsibility for providing it. That is not the states responsibility. Part of choosing an oral environment means that you will no doubt, in the vast majority of cases, have your child placed in the mainstream with minimal accommodations. That is the direct consequence of your choice. If you want a private placement, then it is your responsibility to provide it.

There are no doubt many hearing children that would benefit from a private placement. Who pays their tuition costs? Their parents do.
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Would you be arguing this if it was the other way? If a parent was suing to have the disctirct pay for the child to attend an ASL school?
 
jillio said:
But this child is being provided appropriate services. She is an oral only child. That can be accommodated in the mainstream classroom. The mainstream school uses the same language she does. We are not talking about an ASL using child where the language is not available in the mainstream.

This is a parent that wants their cake and to be able to eat it, too. They choose an oral only environment presumably for the same reason that all parents choose an oral environment. They hold the mistaken belief that the child will be able to function in a hearing environment as long as they have spoken language. Well, the child is being placed in the very environment they want her to function in. But that isn't good enough. Now they want special consideration, as well. It doesn't work that way. They made their choice; they need to take responsibility for the consequences of that choice. This is their child, and it is their responsibility to provide for a private placement.
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Read the link, there is case law that supports the parents. They have the right to send their child to a private oral school and hae the district pay if they do not provide them an appropriate placement.
 
faire_jour said:
Why not? It shows that if the school can not provide an appropriate placement they must pay for a private placement.
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That is where you don't seem to get it. The child is oral. The home district can provide an oral environment. The child is past the age of early intervention. The parents should have been a bit more forward thinking when they made their choice. But, they made it, and now these are the consequences.
 
faire_jour said:
Would you be arguing this if it was the other way? If a parent was suing to have the disctirct pay for the child to attend an ASL school?
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You still don't get it. The home district cannot provide for an ASL based instruction. In that case, they can't provide for appropriate services. In the case of the oral child, they can.

Parents want their child to be oral so they can interact with the hearing community. Okay....here you go. Interact away.
 
jillio said:
That is where you don't seem to get it. The child is oral. The home district can provide an oral environment. The child is past the age of early intervention. The parents should have been a bit more forward thinking when they made their choice. But, they made it, and now these are the consequences.
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A child can only function in the mainstream once they have age appropriate language. If the child is delayed, how will they learn the language and the curriculum if not in a special setting? The mainstream will eventually become the LRE, but it isn't yet. No TOD for oral kids would ever want the child mainstreamed before their language is within one year of age appropriate. Oral education is not just "Hey listen and learn. Hope you do ok". The teachers know how to target issues, how to encourage language development and how to teach oral deaf kids. Oral deaf kids are not hearing kids.
 
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