Parents want hearing school to get state funding

[faire_jour]

not if they have too many empty deaf schools.

If the school doesn't have students, then perhaps they need to find a way to meet the actual needs of the students they are supposed to be serving instead of having a philosophy that ends up being a placement for no students or very few.

 

[A]

It's the oral only who need to change their philosophy and actually allow their kids around ASL... and yes they need to hire a teamwork of people working with CI.

 

[faire_jour]

If it is a state funded school, it is not private placement.

CID, St.Joesph's and The Moog School are three pprivate oral deaf schools in St. Louis. If you have an oral deaf child and you live in St Louis and your IEP teams decides that placement at one of these three schools would be LRE, they will contract with the school for the placement. The district pays, not the family.

 

[jillio]

If the school doesn't have students, then perhaps they need to find a way to meet the actual needs of the students they are supposed to be serving instead of having a philosophy that ends up being a placement for no students or very few.

Most of those closed or empty schools are very capable of meeting the deaf student's needs. But the parents choose a different placement.

 

[jillio]

It's the oral only who need to change their philosophy and actually allow their kids around ASL... and yes they need to hire a teamwork of people working with CI.

Exactly.

 

[jillio]

CID, St.Joesph's and The Moog School are three pprivate oral deaf schools in St. Louis. If you have an oral deaf child and you live in St Louis and your IEP teams decides that placement at one of these three schools would be LRE, they will contract with the school for the placement. The district pays, not the family.

You might want to check on that. If they receive any state or federal funding for operation, they are not private. Likewise, if they are state chartered schools, they are not considered private.

 

[faire_jour]

It's the oral only who need to change their philosophy and actually allow their kids around ASL... and yes they need to hire a teamwork of people working with CI.

This is not how I raise my child, but the argument is this:

A Deaf school has ASL as the language of instruction. The oral child does not know or use ASL. To place them in the ASL enviroment would not be the LRE because they do not know or use the language. They need a placement that uses THEIR language, spoken English as the language of instruction.

You can not require that a parent to change their child's language and mode of communication to fit your school. You must provide the LRE for the child.

 

[A]

I said be around them. LIke lunchtime, PE, little things like that. No different than ASL deaf student being in mainstream being around hearing children.

 

[faire_jour]

You might want to check on that. If they receive any state or federal funding for operation, they are not private. Likewise, if they are state chartered schools, they are not considered private.

I'm postive. I'm sitting in St. Lois right now. They are private schools to which the districts pay the tution because they can not provide an appropriate placement. The law clearly allows for public districts to pay for private school placements if they can not provide appropriate services.

 

[jillio]

This is not how I raise my child, but the argument is this:

A Deaf school has ASL as the language of instruction. The oral child does not know or use ASL. To place them in the ASL enviroment would not be the LRE because they do not know or use the language. They need a placement that uses THEIR language, spoken English as the language of instruction.

You can not require that a parent to change their child's language and mode of communication to fit your school. You must provide the LRE for the child.

Point being...why doesn't the child use ASL? Parental choice. There are consequences to that choice that you are so fond of invoking. One of those consequences is that your child will no doubt end up in a mainstream environment and suffer the problems inherent in that. Make the choice, live with the consequences.

 

[faire_jour]

I said be around them. LIke lunchtime, PE, little things like that. No different than ASL deaf student being in mainstreamed being around hearing children.

How? Have one wing be oral, and another bi-bi?

 

[jillio]

I said be around them. LIke lunchtime, PE, little things like that. No different than ASL deaf student being in mainstreamed being around hearing children.

No doubt. And I have seen children from a mainstream placement who know no sign end up in a signing environment and are communicating with teachers and peers in sign in a matter of days. It is amazing how fast they pick it up once they have been given the opportunity to communicate on their own level. They are starved for it, and they just can't get enough.

 

[faire_jour]

Point being...why doesn't the child use ASL? Parental choice. There are consequences to that choice that you are so fond of invoking. One of those consequences is that your child will no doubt end up in a mainstream environment and suffer the problems inherent in that. Make the choice, live with the consequences.

My point was that an ASL enviroment would not be LRE.

 

[jillio]

My point was that an ASL enviroment would not be LRE.

An ASL environment would be more of an LRE than a mainstream environment. You fail to consider that even in an ASL environment, there are hearing teachers, and students who have oral skills. You can't say the same thing in the mainstream. No deaf students, and no one who knows ASL. Except perhaps a terp, and that is one of the restictive condiditons in the mainstream.

 

[A]

Not if you have a mixture of Oral and ASL in that school (it is not like a child will be the ONLY CI kid there).. And I don't think them being in a sheltered life of Oral school is LRE anyhow. Gov't like students know about diversity.

 

[faire_jour]

An ASL environment would be more of an LRE than a mainstream environment. You fail to consider that even in an ASL environment, there are hearing teachers, and students who have oral skills. You can't say the same thing in the mainstream. No deaf students, and no one who knows ASL. Except perhaps a terp, and that is one of the restictive condiditons in the mainstream.

If your child does not know or use ASL the LRE is NOT an ASL enviroment. The language of instruction is not their language. That is considered very restrictive.

 

[faire_jour]

Not if you have a mixture of Oral and ASL in that school (it is not like a child will be the ONLY CI kid there).. And I don't think them being in a sheltered life of Oral school is LRE anyhow. Gov't like students know about diversity.

So, you are suggesting an enviroment that has what? One part for oral kids, another for ASL? Or just sending a student who doesn't know or use ASL to a Deaf school?

 

[Tousi]

My point was that an ASL enviroment would not be LRE.

In the early days of PL 94-142 when even the lawyers couldn't firm up what LRE really meant, we at the CA School for the Deaf determined that LRE meant a child, a natural language, visual learner was in a lesser restrictive environment by being at our school, engaging in all sorts of activities with other deaf students as opposed to the isolation of a mainstreamed classroom.

 

[jillio]

If your child does not know or use ASL the LRE is NOT an ASL enviroment. The language of instruction is not their language. That is considered very restrictive.

The ASL environement is less restrictive for the oral child than an oral environment is for the ASL using child. Put an oral child in an ASL environment and see how quickly they begin communicating in ASL with peers and teachers. Without an intermediary.

 

[jillio]

In the early days of PL 94-142 when even the lawyers couldn't firm up what LRE really meant, we at the CA School for the Deaf determined that LRE meant a child, a natural language, visual learner was in a lesser restrictive environment by being at our school, engaging in all sorts of activities with other deaf students as opposed to the isolation of a mainstreamed classroom.

Exactly. Unfortuantely, with the return toward medicalization, that definition of LRE is being used less and less. We would do well to return to it.