Parents of a deaf student plan to sue SAU 16 for not providing an adequate education

emeryslane said:
Hello All,I am just coming across this article and comments at this web sight.... I am amazed by comments of those who have NO idea of our REAL LIFE situation. My son is the one who chooses NOT to sign. We attempted to learn and teach him sign, he did not want it. DONT assume you can know this case by inaccurate articles written.... that contain bogus information based on ones opinion and where critical facts are missing. You can NEVER know or judge what is real if you dont have ALL the information/facts and these single snapshots by one persons perspective will NEVER give you what you truly need to judge. It would be best if people understood special education laws and the fact that it is INDIVIDUALIZED for a reason. Albeit the, Individuals with Disabilities Educational Act, where the IEP, Individualized Education Plan guides the students education and programming, this based on the individual students needs. This goes for each student with a disability who has an IEP. It is and should be individualized for that family and student, never for the masses opinion of what they feel may or may not work for that family and child. The battle to have my son to an appropriate program has been going on for years.... It did not just start with this article. It was the fact that my son was at this point truly failing and the school was passing him along, I made a more public point before the school board. I have never stopped advocating for his educational needs, I have an extremely large amount of documents and communication with the school and their attorney to prove it. In fact one of the more recent documents I had received from the school attorney was 17 pages long and cost the school district 9000.00, I have the documents to support this fact also, this letter/opinion was to deter my pursuit for a placement and programming that I knew would allow my son to benefit, but this attorneys opinion was based on bad law. I continued to pursue based on current laws, and so my son did end up in Clarke school shortly after this article, where he made nearly a years growth in 6 months time. It is amazing what happens when the right people and programming are in place.
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I think we are alll very well informed, with the exception of one or two parents who continually make false and leading statements regarding education for the deaf. We are well informed regarding not only law, methodology, psychosocial impact and educational functioning, but well informed regarding the deaf specifically.

Quite frankly, if you chose to educate your son in an oral environment, and he is capable of being educated in an oral environment, then a mainstream placement should not present any problems. The fact that you believe he needs a specialized oral placement is evidence that he has needs for communication and understanding that are not being addressed.

The only time I have seen a deaf child to "choose not to sign" is in an environment where the parents are not properly making signed language available and are implicitly communicating the message to the child that it is a lesser form of communication and to be a part of the family on an equal basis, he must speak and listen.
 
jillio said:
Quite frankly, if you chose to educate your son in an oral environment, and he is capable of being educated in an oral environment, then a mainstream placement should not present any problems. The fact that you believe he needs a specialized oral placement is evidence that he has needs for communication and understanding that are not being addressed.

The only time I have seen a deaf child to "choose not to sign" is in an environment where the parents are not properly making signed language available and are implicitly communicating the message to the child that it is a lesser form of communication and to be a part of the family on an equal basis, he must speak and listen.
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The view that any deaf oral child can and should easily function in mainstream is short sighted and wrong. specialized programming is required regardless of oral or sign.... this district was NOT able to support EITHER. There are NO other deaf students in this school district and only a couple hearing impaired students that are fully mainstreamed. The option for programming and supports for my son are not available in this school system here to allow him to benefit from an educational plan, which became more and more obvious. Because the district lacked appropriate supports and programming Hunter was allowed to fall seriously behind even as I advocated for more supports...Dont assume you know what the options were or are, and families do have the choice of mode. Hunter was given opportunity to use and learn sign... he did have it as a support. You should not say you know what this family believes or what my son wants simply based on your own view. You really have no idea. You pass judgement without full knowledge and that does not help or solve anything.
 
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emeryslane said:
The view that any deaf oral child can and should easily function in mainstream is short sighted and wrong. specialized programming is required regardless of oral or sign.... this district was NOT able to support EITHER. There are NO other deaf students in this school district and only a couple hearing impaired students that are fully mainstreamed. The option for programming and supports for my son are not available in this school system here to allow him to benefit from an educational plan, which became more and more obvious. Because the district lacked appropriate supports and programming Hunter was allowed to fall seriously behind even as I advocated for more supports...Dont assume you know what the options were or are, and families do have the choice of mode. Hunter was given opportunity to use and learn sign... he did have it as a support. You should not say you know what this family believes or what my son wants simply based on your own view. You really have no idea. You pass judgement without full knowledge and that does not help or solve anything.
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The point is, oral is not removing the need for specialized services. Quite obviously these children cannot function completely in an oral auditory environment. So why place them in an environment where they show obvious gaps in functioning, understanding, and ability to access information?

The elephant in the room is: did Hunter fall seriously behind because oral supports were not available, or did Hunter fall seriously behind because his need for visually presented communication has not been addressed?

You demand that your child rely on their weakest sense, expect the weakest form of performance from them. You are creating obstacles for that child, and then asking them to overcome them.
 
"They're saying because they can't teach him aurally they want to add sign language," she said. "That's like saying 'if your son isn't learning English I'm going teach him Latin. Does anybody else in the community speak Latin? It isn't going to help him communicate with his peers."

WHAT THE F****????


Geez!
 
shel90 said:
"They're saying because they can't teach him aurally they want to add sign language," she said. "That's like saying 'if your son isn't learning English I'm going teach him Latin. Does anybody else in the community speak Latin? It isn't going to help him communicate with his peers."

WHAT THE F****????


Geez!
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I know. That is the most absurd comment I have ever seen. This parent is so ingrained in her hearing perspective that she is unable to even peek out of that box, much less think outside it.:roll:
 
Miss-Delectable said:
Hunter was 6 at the time and a student at Stratham Memorial School. Now, at 13, he is entering eighth grade at Cooperative Middle School where his mother said he is slipping behind — functioning at a third-grade reading level and struggling to communicate.

When Petit decided to give her son a cochlear implant at age 2, it was her hope that he would be able to function in an auditory society. The Petit family never learned sign language.

Petit alleges that members of the district's special education program admitted during IEP meetings that CMS cannot provide an adequate education utilizing a strictly auditory mode. The district's solution, she alleges, is to incorporate sign language into Hunter's educational goals and continue teaching him at CMS.

"They're saying because they can't teach him aurally they want to add sign language," she said. "That's like saying 'if your son isn't learning English I'm going teach him Latin. Does anybody else in the community speak Latin? It isn't going to help him communicate with his peers."
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Wow! Ms Petit really is focused on how he could communicate with hearing people when she should be more concerned with his education right in the beginning. She really lives up to her name as Petit means small/little in French. Really pettiness!
 
emeryslane said:
Hello All,I am just coming across this article and comments at this web sight.... I am amazed by comments of those who have NO idea of our REAL LIFE situation. My son is the one who chooses NOT to sign. We attempted to learn and teach him sign, he did not want it. DONT assume you can know this case by inaccurate articles written.... that contain bogus information based on ones opinion and where critical facts are missing. You can NEVER know or judge what is real if you dont have ALL the information/facts and these single snapshots by one persons perspective will NEVER give you what you truly need to judge. It would be best if people understood special education laws and the fact that it is INDIVIDUALIZED for a reason. Albeit the, Individuals with Disabilities Educational Act, where the IEP, Individualized Education Plan guides the students education and programming, this based on the individual students needs. This goes for each student with a disability who has an IEP. It is and should be individualized for that family and student, never for the masses opinion of what they feel may or may not work for that family and child. The battle to have my son to an appropriate program has been going on for years.... It did not just start with this article. It was the fact that my son was at this point truly failing and the school was passing him along, I made a more public point before the school board. I have never stopped advocating for his educational needs, I have an extremely large amount of documents and communication with the school and their attorney to prove it. In fact one of the more recent documents I had received from the school attorney was 17 pages long and cost the school district 9000.00, I have the documents to support this fact also, this letter/opinion was to deter my pursuit for a placement and programming that I knew would allow my son to benefit, but this attorneys opinion was based on bad law. I continued to pursue based on current laws, and so my son did end up in Clarke school shortly after this article, where he made nearly a years growth in 6 months time. It is amazing what happens when the right people and programming are in place.
Click to expand...

You don't have an idea of how a deaf person really feel growning up in a hearing family.

I was going to ask you to ask your son for his reason for not signing but I
realized it might be a moot point as he might not tell you the real reason.

How old is your son and what grade is he in and how far behind is he now?
 
jillio said:
I know. That is the most absurd comment I have ever seen. This parent is so ingrained in her hearing perspective that she is unable to even peek out of that box, much less think outside it.:roll:
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Again....to my point , the article writers version of what was said and going on... READ MY POSTS, he had sign support. Changing over to ASL was not going to allow him to grow in the setting he was in..... YOU DONT KNOW THE REAL SITUATION... you people are rude and ruthless........
 
emeryslane said:
Again....to my point , the article writers version of what was said and going on... READ MY POSTS, he had sign support. Changing over to ASL was not going to allow him to grow in the setting he was in..... YOU DONT KNOW THE REAL SITUATION... you people are rude and ruthless........
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Wow! Defensive much?

Perhaps if you had considered his needs as a deaf kid in the beginning, you wouldn't need to "switch" to ASL now.:cool2:
 
jillio said:
Wow! Defensive much?

Perhaps if you had considered his needs as a deaf kid in the beginning, you wouldn't need to "switch" to ASL now.:cool2:
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We arent switching to ASL now... nor will we. He is doing well in his setting. The school is the one that wanted to switch, stop reading into things and thinking you know. I am done with this sight.... enjoy your lives, and attempting to make others miserable who try to communicate.
Proud of my son and my decision... you wont change that.
 
emeryslane said:
Again....to my point , the article writers version of what was said and going on... READ MY POSTS, he had sign support. Changing over to ASL was not going to allow him to grow in the setting he was in..... YOU DONT KNOW THE REAL SITUATION... you people are rude and ruthless........
Click to expand...

After 3 posts? Good job.
 
emeryslane said:
Again....to my point , the article writers version of what was said and going on... READ MY POSTS, he had sign support. Changing over to ASL was not going to allow him to grow in the setting he was in..... YOU DONT KNOW THE REAL SITUATION... you people are rude and ruthless........
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Calm down, woman. No need to SCREAM AT DEAF PEOPLE. It won't work.

If you came in here all collected - and explained your side of the story instead of SCREAMING at us, CHASTISING us for being "wrong" - We will work with you.

It's that easy.
 
jillio said:
I think we are alll very well informed, with the exception of one or two parents who continually make false and leading statements regarding education for the deaf. We are well informed regarding not only law, methodology, psychosocial impact and educational functioning, but well informed regarding the deaf specifically.

Quite frankly, if you chose to educate your son in an oral environment, and he is capable of being educated in an oral environment, then a mainstream placement should not present any problems. The fact that you believe he needs a specialized oral placement is evidence that he has needs for communication and understanding that are not being addressed.

The only time I have seen a deaf child to "choose not to sign" is in an environment where the parents are not properly making signed language available and are implicitly communicating the message to the child that it is a lesser form of communication and to be a part of the family on an equal basis, he must speak and listen.
Click to expand...
Exactly!!!!! It's AWESOME that he made so much progress at Clarke...and I think in some cases they can stay until age 15/16...but our point is that he really should have been sent there EARLIER!!!! Like around fourth grade. Seriously, back something like five years ago the middle school programs at Clarke/CID/St. Joseph's were BOOMING, b/c they had so many oral kids transfer in from the mainstream!
And yes jillo that's 100% true. There are some cases where the kid doesn't really cotten to ASL, but a lot of those cases are the type where the kid thinks they have to parrot what their parent thinks....Kids are smart...they can pick up whether or not a parent thinks a particualr methodology is the right one. So of course a lot of kids accurately pick up from their parents that "Oh ASL isn't "normal"...it's better to hear and speak!"
 
jillio said:
Wow! Defensive much?

Perhaps if you had considered his needs as a deaf kid in the beginning, you wouldn't need to "switch" to ASL now.:cool2:
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Yes exactly! What we are saying is not for your kid to be voice off ASL....BUT, more like he should have learned it as a second language(and a language not just some scattered signs) b/c b/c it could have been very helpful. shel 90 and many of our other TODs have seen oral transfers at their deaf schools, who start really thriving when sign is introduced. We just think that speech shouldn't be the be all and end all of a dhh kid's education/ experiance.
 
emeryslane said:
Again....to my point , the article writers version of what was said and going on... READ MY POSTS, he had sign support. Changing over to ASL was not going to allow him to grow in the setting he was in..... YOU DONT KNOW THE REAL SITUATION... you people are rude and ruthless........
Click to expand...

Why are you upset with Jillio? She expressed her opinion of Ms. Petit, not you.

Are you Faire Jour??? She got banned so I gotta make sure it is not you coming back under a different name. FJ often got defensive just like you so I wonder....
 
faire_jour said:
Research shows that AV kids are the only group of deaf kids that test at normal levels for math, reading, language and self-esteem. No other methodology can claim those results.
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Interesting myth.
 
emeryslane said:
The view that any deaf oral child can and should easily function in mainstream is short sighted and wrong. specialized programming is required regardless of oral or sign.... this district was NOT able to support EITHER. There are NO other deaf students in this school district and only a couple hearing impaired students that are fully mainstreamed. The option for programming and supports for my son are not available in this school system here to allow him to benefit from an educational plan, which became more and more obvious. Because the district lacked appropriate supports and programming Hunter was allowed to fall seriously behind even as I advocated for more supports...Dont assume you know what the options were or are, and families do have the choice of mode. Hunter was given opportunity to use and learn sign... he did have it as a support. You should not say you know what this family believes or what my son wants simply based on your own view. You really have no idea. You pass judgement without full knowledge and that does not help or solve anything.
Click to expand...
So why didn't you send him to Clarke early on? That is what I don't understand. Especially since NH is HORRIBLE with special ed. Why the heck didn't you just MOVE to Clarke or something?
 
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