Parent and HA/CI issues

[Foxrac]

AudioFuzzy, If you have AIM or MSN then PM me.

 

[Maria]

Please enlighten me -- if babies, toddlers or small children cannot benefit from hearing aids like my son, what options other than CI do parents have left? I won't wait until they're 18 years old to "decide"; that is our responsibilities as parents.

Well, I don't mind HAs, but CI ? A knife don't enlighten me, if you get my drift. That's one thing I don't like to see. What if, they get older and tell you that they don't like the scar on their head where the CI implant is... how do you feel about that ? That knife thing is a monsterous to create a scar -- my goodness, it will regret me if, I ever knew what my kid will feel when I don't know that my kid is not goin' to be appreciated when my kid gets older. I don't like " too late " idea. I prefer to avoid " haunt " for the rest of my life, if my kid is not happy with it.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

That's one thing I don't like to see. What if, they get older and tell you that they don't like the scar on their head where the CI implant is...

Don't be ridiculous, please. What is a little scar comparing to being able to hear 80%.

Like an older kid who made this decison itself will not have a scar???

You are running in circles.

Fuzzy

ps. your child will be waaaaay more unhappy knowing that you choose to deny him an 80& opportunity to hear, than having a bit of a scar.

 

[Maria]

BINGO! Couldn't be more true...

take your head out from the sand, sweetie. you and others like you..

If you were really concerned with your child's welfare then you would definitely look long and hard at the graph and think geee, maybe it's a moot point to implant late, because I am DEPRIVING my child of the ONLY chance of best ability to hear if I wait.

It is ridiculous to expect little and even older children to make mature decision for themsleves. For crissake some 7- 8 years olds still believe in Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy!

Oh, yeah ? What about when they get older ? Hmm ? Most of you as adults don't believe in Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy, because you adults knew it's just a fairy tale. You see, from child they believe, but they will change when they get older by not believin' it. That's what I talked about their thinkin' and feelin' will change from the childhood into adulthood/teenhood.

And what will you say to your child who may very well will ask you one day "Why didn't you implant me when it was the best time for it, now I can't EVER get to be as good as implanted little babies, I hate you!".

Naw - it will not happen, because I will give them all the informations and everythin' they need to know first BEFORE they can decide for themselves. I am not sayin' to wait until they are 18. They could be in teen and they can make their own decision if, they wish.

Who do you think you are fooling - me or yourself with this:

If you were concerned about child's welfare you would implant early and keep the child in deaf community also.

I think differently than yours. We both don't think the same about the child's welfare. And, of course - that's for me and I don't accept the fact that CI implants should be puttin' on a SMALL child. I don't mind about HAs, because it don't use a knife to cut in. CI implants, yes -- and, that's the whole different story from HAs.

 

[Maria]

Don't be ridiculous, please. What is a little scar comparing to being able to hear 80%.

Like an older kid who made this decison itself will not have a scar???

You are running in circles.

I am not runnin' in circles. Remember, every individual is different. Each person don't think the same. Each person views different. Sorry to say.

Fuzzy

ps. your child will be waaaaay more unhappy knowing that you choose to deny him an 80& opportunity to hear, than having a bit of a scar.

In fact, all my 4 children are hearin'. I am deaf in the family and, my parents don't put CI implants on me when I was a child. They put HAs on me and sent me to a private school to learn how to speak thru speech therapist. I can hear every sounds and what every sound belonged, except the words that haven't been developed yet. But, unfortunately I quit wearin' HAs when I was 11 years old, because of the planes flew back and forth above my parents' house at that time and it drove me nutty. Ever since that age of 11 until now, I am very happy to stay deaf. I am happy with the way I am. You see, when I was a little child - things were different until I was 11, the feelings changed.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Naw - it will not happen, because I will give them all the informations and everythin' they need to know first BEFORE they can decide for themselves. I am not sayin' to wait until they are 18. They could be in teen and they can make their own decision if, they wish

What will happen after you give the informations to the child - it will with the tears in it's eyes ask you is this:

"Mommy, if you weren't wasting time I would hear so much better now... now I will NEVER be able to hear thru CI as well as if you have me implanted at the age 0 to 3 years old.. -NOW it's TOO LATE!!! I will NEVER hear that good!! why did you do that to me?.. WHY?!.."..

Most of you as adults don't believe in Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy, because you adults knew it's just a fairy tale. .

EXACTLY, this is called MATURITY and that is why adults are responsible for their children until the kids are at least 18.

MATURITY is the ability to asses what is what and it's consequnces.


Fuzzy

 

[Maria]

What will happen after you give the informations to the child - it will with the tears in it's eyes ask you is this:

"Mommy, if you weren't wasting time I would hear so much better now... now I will NEVER be able to hear thru CI as well as if you have me implanted at the age 0 to 3 years old.. -NOW it's TOO LATE!!! I will NEVER hear that good!! why did you do that to me?.. WHY?!.."..

It's why they don't know how to tell me, because they are tooo young. It's important for me to know what they feel at that tender age, but no it's too young and they will not be able to tell me exactly what they feel. I mean at that age of 0 to 3 years old. Supposedly if, they are in teen, they would know the feelin' and that feelin' will help them makin' decisions - maybe, they could ask his/her friends around to see, if they could support that ideas or things like that - so this way, they will not make fun of or whatever that is. The important is COMMUNICATION. The communicate is the key to be sure that he/she is makin' the right decision.


EXACTLY, this is called MATURITY and that is why adults are responsible for their children until the kids are at least 18.

MATURITY is the ability to asses what is what and it's consequnces.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

The problem though is, they CAN'T make the right decision because they are too young. When they will be mature enough, it will be TOO LATE for the true benefit.


catch 22.

That is why YOU ARE responsible.
They will have to live for the rest of their life with YOUR lack of decision.

Fuzzy

 

[Maria]

The problem though is, they CAN'T make the right decision because they are too young. When they will be mature enough, it will be TOO LATE for the true benefit.

Since I read some ADers' posts in Hearin Aids & Cochlear Implants, some children don't benefit from CI implant since it don't work for them. Some do. So, you won't know WHO will benefit from it. In the near future, there's always a better technology that will might benefits for the both sides without experiencin' non-benefits. Maybe, those new types of devices are better than today's CI implants and HAs in the near future. Who knows ? There's ALWAYS somethin' new.

catch 22.

That is why YOU ARE responsible.
They will have to live for the rest of their life with YOUR lack of decision.

Eh ? I don't think so. I know what I am doin'. You do yours.

 

[DefLord]

If we are going to talk about scars...

You know you can't even see scars nowadays with the new CI's you cant even see mine at all. My wife was pretty impressed. So what scar are you talking about? The only scar you will see is the one once they have the surgery after the hair grows back no scars.

And secondly CI technology back then was not that good - so it was SMART not to have CI back then. But CI's have greatly improved since then.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

They will have to live for the rest of their life with YOUR lack of decision.

You misunderstood.

Whether you decide to implant your child or you will decide not to implant your child, or worse -leave it to them what's not making a decision either,
it will be your CHILD who will live with the consequences of YOUR decision for the rest of its life.
It has nothing to do with me.

So, you won't know WHO will benefit from it.

I agree with you but you must take under consideration this:

1. the child is evaluated for CI before implanting. The optimal age for receving benefits from CI is between age 0 and 3. You have up to three years to assess and evaluate your child. Sometimes it is possible to say very if early CI would be beneficial.

2.If you err, it still better to find out that CI was not neccessary than to find out it was implanted too late.

the child who does not benefit from CI couldn't have heard in the first place- so there is no loss.

But if the child could have heard 80% with the help of CI but received it too late or never - there is a loss. Forever.

Fuzzy


it is not as bad as the child can't hear

 

[Audiofuzzy]

oops sorry for the messy post- the last line was supposed to be removed, edit's gone, never mind it please, and I overlooked this:

to say very if early

it suppose to be:

to say if very early ..

Fuzzy

 

[jag]

Fragmenter, and DefLord, both superb posts!!!!! Actually, I would totally be pro CI and even early implantation if the requirments for implantation were standardized and a little more strict. In the past, the only folks eligable for implantation were those who got very little benifit from hearing aids. Now, they've loosened restrictions so that even kids and people who get a lot of functional hearing from aids, are being implanted. I know of a guy who can hear 80% with his hearing aids.....but he's thinking of being implanted b/c those scores are only in perfect listening conditions! There's nothing wrong per se with people who get very little out of hearing aids being implanted, but when you've got people being implanted who get a lot of use out of hearing aids.....something is messed up!

In my state you can't even get HA's for someone under 18 without a signature from two different drs. the first time. I had to go to two differnt clinics because the first one only had one ent on staff. Perhaps if they'd have more then one it wouldn't have made a difference. They also make it a PITA to get new aides for the little people, even tho they have a history of using HA's and have already had the drs sigs once you have to make sure you get the ENT's sig again, which requires a trip to the clinic to get it. There is more but I concidered this repeat visits to the ENT to get a sig. to get new aide a hugh PITA and interference on the part of the state. (heck why would I want to dish out a few thou. for something if the kid really didn't need them, sigh) The audi at the dispensing place is authorized to do audiograms so why the heck do I need a sig after the first time.

but if I have to jump through the hoops to get something as common as a HA do you really think that either insurance or the state would have let me implant if hearing tests showed 80% accuracy in a minor? (probably not here)

As for an adult who gets 80% and is concidering implantation. If he can get his insurance to pay more power to him. He is old enough to understand the risks and hopefully the fact that it might not work the way he wants it. I'm implanted an I heard around 70% in the nice quite sound booth. 11 in a noise test. I did get clarity so if he want to go for it and understands the risks and has the money/insurance to pay for it more power to him.

 

[greema]

If we are going to talk about scars...

You know you can't even see scars nowadays with the new CI's you cant even see mine at all. My wife was pretty impressed. So what scar are you talking about? The only scar you will see is the one once they have the surgery after the hair grows back no scars.

And secondly CI technology back then was not that good - so it was SMART not to have CI back then. But CI's have greatly improved since then.

Hmmm, so can Fragmenter take it that the scar his son has now WILL be more noticable than the CI scar???? That scar is a beaut if you ask me.

 

[jag]

That knife thing is a monsterous to create a scar -- my goodness, it will regret me if, I ever knew what my kid will feel when I don't know that my kid is not goin' to be appreciated when my kid gets older. I don't like " too late " idea. I prefer to avoid " haunt " for the rest of my life, if my kid is not happy with it.

I have the scar behind my ear and like the scar from having my appendix removed it will fad and not really stick out. The ear surgery was actully better, ever been told to cough when they've cut into your gut?

the 'too late' is not a feeling, it's actually a fact. These parents are deciding based on FACTS. The kid can eventually decide not to use the implant as a teen or adult, but the fact is early implantation gets you better results since all kids learn language at early ages and it's actually quite easy for them.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

I know of a guy who can hear 80% with his hearing aids.....but he's thinking of being implanted b/c those scores are only in perfect listening conditions! There's nothing wrong per se with people who get very little out of hearing aids being implanted, but when you've got people being implanted who get a lot of use out of hearing aids.....something is messed up!

I had very good scores too in an ideal conditions but these does not reflect the truth - how I really hear in everyday situation.
In everyday situation what I hear would proably be 70%-60% or even less of what came up in the 100% lab testing.

If it was indeed possible to hear so well with our regular HAs then probably no one would consider switching to CI.

I was considering CI because I wanted to hear better. But I had to also consider the fact that CI is not a merely LOUDER version of HAs but that the sounds thru CI may sound entirely different. That worried me a little bit.
That is why I didn't push it further.




Fuzzy

 

[jag]

What will happen after you give the informations to the child - it will with the tears in it's eyes ask you is this:

"Mommy, if you weren't wasting time I would hear so much better now... now I will NEVER be able to hear thru CI as well as if you have me implanted at the age 0 to 3 years old.. -NOW it's TOO LATE!!! I will NEVER hear that good!! why did you do that to me?.. WHY?!.."..

It's why they don't know how to tell me, because they are tooo young. It's important for me to know what they feel at that tender age, but no it's too young and they will not be able to tell me exactly what they feel. I mean at that age of 0 to 3 years old. Supposedly if, they are in teen, they would know the feelin' and that feelin' will help them makin' decisions - maybe, they could ask his/her friends around to see, if they could support that ideas or things like that - so this way, they will not make fun of or whatever that is. The important is COMMUNICATION. The communicate is the key to be sure that he/she is makin' the right decision.

You must have misunderstood his statement, I read him to be asking how would you feel if your child/young adult got hte facts that proved the 0-3 kids were doing way way better then he could ever hope to achieve because you chose to wait until he could make his own choice.

You may be happy with your HA's, but if you had a child who was deaf and could do much better in a hearing world as shown by the graph and he asked you why you didn't make a decision based on facts to help him better interact in that hearing world how would you feel then. You can't make up for the lost time in learing oral language, that is gone. But if he chose to discontinue the use of the CI when he was in his teens that would truely be his OWN decision based on how much interaction he does with the hearing world.

 

[neecy]

After a year my scar has faded so much you can't even tell its there unless you fold my ear back and know what to look for, so the "scar" arguement is moot.

 

[R2D2]

In fact, all my 4 children are hearin'. I am deaf in the family and, my parents don't put CI implants on me when I was a child. They put HAs on me and sent me to a private school to learn how to speak thru speech therapist. I can hear every sounds and what every sound belonged, except the words that haven't been developed yet. But, unfortunately I quit wearin' HAs when I was 11 years old, because of the planes flew back and forth above my parents' house at that time and it drove me nutty. Ever since that age of 11 until now, I am very happy to stay deaf. I am happy with the way I am. You see, when I was a little child - things were different until I was 11, the feelings changed.

Exactly. How can we predict how a child is going to feel when they grow up into adults? For every child that decides they don't want to wear hearing aids or a CI anymore there is another one who chooses to continue with hearing aids and CIs and get benefit from them.

I for one chose to continue wearing my hearing aids and was very glad I had them. It goes to show that with all of us that are deaf we have different feelings, different priorities, different interests - we are just all different!

So the key thing here is not to assume anything about a child's future feelings and to give the choice when they are still young. The choice to decide what they want to do when they are adults. Whether to turn off their hearing aid, CI or to continue to make use of them.

We can't only look at the accounts of people who decided that hearing aids and CI's are not for them in deciding what to do for all children who are yet to be born. Everyone has to be taken into account and the reality is that there are many happy hearing aid and CI wearers who are glad that they were given the choice when it mattered.

 

[deafdyke]

When they will be mature enough, it will be TOO LATE for the true benefit.

Agreed........debates on The Right One Holy Grail of Methology, benifit absolutly positively no kids.It's our job as adults to stop catfighting about The One Right Way, and instead put our energy into making sure that ALL dhh kids have a full toolbox, filled with a variety of communication tools. This means speech, Sign (ASL AND SEE) Cued Speech and so on.
Certainly, I dislike the Sign phobic approach to learning spoken language, but I'm glad I can hear and speak pretty well. I am glad I don't have to depend on a 'terp. That said, I just totally don't understand WHY learning how to speak has to be such a goddamn tedious and Sign phobic thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!