Other people perspective AGAINST C.I. for the Deaf children

[shel90]

Oh dear, my speech therapists was awful means to me. She slapped my face because I could not pronouce f n p etc.. She pressured a wood stick on my tonuge, saying annhhhhh the drool was all over on my pretty dress. I was doing speech therapists spend 75% a day. 25% on academic and activity. That is why, I hate going to school because of bitch speech therapist.

I never want to learn to speak again. Choice ASL, it is my primary language. I am very against oralist... it is worthless in my life into real world....

I can understand how you feel...my speech therapist in middle school constantly yelled at me every time I misprounounced a word. U think that is fun going to school daily knowing u will get yelled at for something that isnt your fault. Maybe to others, that is fun but for me, it was pure hell.

As for my oral skills being worthless, I am different from u, Kalista. I find them benefical in some situations but not most but like u, I prefer ASL as my primary choice of language.

 

[jillio]

What about the biopsychosocial model?

Not all doctors follow the same model. Not all doctors are the same.

I may be a medical model of being disabled, so what. I have a college degree, I work, I have a family.

I will look it up. The one thing I found with life is the more you allow yourself to be called disabled or handicap or anything else, the more you believe it. I don't believe in allowing myself to feel that way. My ability comes first. My deafness is an ability. It allows me to be the person I am. I would not trade it for anything. Just like I would not trade my CIs, they allow me to be the person I am too.

The biopsychosocial model is a functional model. It removes causation and solution from the individual, and redefines the source of disability as the environment. While it still accounts for pathology, it does not see true disability as arising from the pathology itself, but from environmental barriers put up by society through attitudes and lack of accommodation. It sees the individual in a more holistic light, and takes into account that level of disability can change depending upon environment. It also considers the psychological and social impact of disability on the individual...something the medical model fails to take into consideration. From what you say, you are coming more from the perspective of a biospychosocial model, and are very strengths based in your approach. Most people with a disability will lean toward a functional or integrative model. The difficulty is in getting the rest of society to define disability from this perspective. As a whole, we confer such a level of expertise on the field of medicine, that the majority of society just automatically adopts the medicalperspective, and accepts it without question. Thus, their attitudes and behaviors are unconsciously shaped by it. Until they experience disability in themselves, or in a family member, they never question those attitudes and assumptions.

I doubt seriously that you subscribe in whole to the medical model. The question that remains, however, is what model the rest of society subscribes to, because that has a huge influence over opportunities and advatages, and in effect, determines the construction of disability as a sociological phenomenon.

 

[deafdyke]

Yes, ASL being used in educational programs is relatively new. Despite what some AG Bell types think, in living memory the Deaf Schools never had some pro seperatist 100% Deaf World curriculm. Oral only was the norm until maybe about thirty years ago. That is NOT that long ago.

One of my friends had depend on anxiety meds cuz her anxiety levels go out of contro

l OMG yes.........I have significent anxieity about talking on the phone, and interacting with hearing people. I really do think a lot of my anxiety issues are due to the fact that I am still so incredibily self conscious about my voice.

 

[Cheri]

I never want to learn to speak again. Choice ASL, it is my primary language. I am very against oralist... it is worthless in my life into real world....

I pretty much know where you stand, You are much more like Sweetmind based on deaf's needs, as I recalling she is against hearing aids too, are you also?

 

[Kalista]

I pretty much know where you stand, You are much more like Sweetmind based on deaf's needs, as I recalling she is against hearing aids too, are you also?

Sweetmind and I are raise in different schools and family. She has hearing family. My Dad is Deaf and Mom is hearing. She wear hearing until 40's years old. My last time hearing aid when I was teenager. She can speak very well more than I do.

 

[vallee]

I doubt seriously that you subscribe in whole to the medical model. The question that remains, however, is what model the rest of society subscribes to, because that has a huge influence over opportunities and advatages, and in effect, determines the construction of disability as a sociological phenomenon.

I think it depends on the personal experiences of the medical profession. Experiences shape our lives.

I changed my family doctor a few months ago because he made a comment to me about my implants. He said wow how much do they cost. I told him. He said the insurance company paid alot. They let me know, I don't want him as a doctor. He should have said - how much benefit are you getting? What do I need to learn or research since you are my patient to better serve you? So I changed doctors to one I can respect.

 

[Cheri]

I think it depends on the personal experiences of the medical profession. Experiences shape our lives.

I changed my family doctor a few months ago because he made a comment to me about my implants. He said wow how much do they cost. I told him. He said the insurance company paid alot. They let me know, I don't want him as a doctor. He should have said - how much benefit are you getting? What do I need to learn or research since you are my patient to better serve you? So I changed doctors to one I can respect.

I don't see anything wrong with what the doctor said, it would suprised any one if they knew how much a cochlear implant would cost. There was no reason to take offended for what he said, but that's your choice.

 

[vallee]

I don't see anything wrong with what the doctor said, it would suprised any one if they knew how much a cochlear implant would cost. There was no reason to take offended for what he said, but that's your choice.

I was more offended that he made a choice to concentrate on the medical device instead of the patient.

 

[shel90]

I was more offended that he made a choice to concentrate on the medical device instead of the patient.

So throughout the appt, he was more concentrated on the device not on u? I would feel the same way.

 

[Cheri]

I was more offended that he made a choice to concentrate on the medical device instead of the patient.

Oh I gotcha and that's understandable.

 

[rockdrummer]

I do believe parents walk beside their child. We can't judge that Rick has not gained empathy for his daughter. We don't know the relationship, experiences, or struggles they have gone through. The bond between a child and parent are very strong. It is cruel to place judgement on Rick by saying he does not know his child.

Can we make the same generalization on all hearing parents of deaf children? Can we make that generalization of deaf and hearing people not walking in the shoes of CI people? Can we make that generalization about deaf parent of hearing children? NO, WE CAN NOT!

It is easy to judge others, by just reading the written posting. We know nothing about what others go through in their daily life. Hopefully no one has to walk a mile in someone else shoes, hopefully we can respect others instead of judge.

Vallee I just want to say that you are one of the few that actually gets it. Thanks!!

 

[vallee]

Vallee I just want to say that you are one of the few that actually gets it. Thanks!!

thank you

 

[rockdrummer]

Oh dear, my speech therapists was awful means to me. She slapped my face because I could not pronouce f n p etc.. She pressured a wood stick on my tonuge, saying annhhhhh the drool was all over on my pretty dress. I was doing speech therapists spend 75% a day. 25% on academic and activity. That is why, I hate going to school because of bitch speech therapist.

I never want to learn to speak again. Choice ASL, it is my primary language. I am very against oralist... it is worthless in my life into real world....

That is horrible and I believe it's partially why many that were subjected to those awful techniques have such a negative view on oralism. And why shouldn't they. While I don't necessiarly agree that speech has no value I do empathise with your position. While I can't speak for every program I am fairly confident that type of practice doesn't occur anymore.

 

[jillio]

I think it depends on the personal experiences of the medical profession. Experiences shape our lives.

I changed my family doctor a few months ago because he made a comment to me about my implants. He said wow how much do they cost. I told him. He said the insurance company paid alot. They let me know, I don't want him as a doctor. He should have said - how much benefit are you getting? What do I need to learn or research since you are my patient to better serve you? So I changed doctors to one I can respect.

I agree that different experiences are responsible for different perspectives and practice values. And some physicians are indeed very patient oriented and some are not. But inherent in medical training is the treatment of any form of disability as pathology, and the orientation of the great majority of practioners is toward correction of that pathology without consideration of the psychosocial and environmental variables that impact the individual. I agree with your decision to change doctors. He obviously was not very patient oriented.

I don't think that the orientation taken by the medical community is intentionally discriminatory. Far from it. But medicine is focused on treating and curing patients, not providing services to consumers. That doesn't mean that the medical field can't make wonderful contributions, but it does mean that their orientation is toward the treatment of pathology, and their definition of disability is firmly rooted in the biomedical model. That is a great orientation for treating disease, but does not always make for the best understanding of disability.

Have you ever read any Oliver Sacks? He is a neurologist who has completely broken out of the biomedical model in his understanding of disability. The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat is a wonderful compilation of cases that he treated in some very unique and creative ways that restored optimal funcitoning for patients suffering from various forms of neurological impairments, and explains how he transitioned from being focused on just treating disease to treating the whole person. It really is an very interesting read, and I think you would enjoy it.

 

[jillio]

I was more offended that he made a choice to concentrate on the medical device instead of the patient.

Exactly. And that is my point about the way in which physicians are trained to deal with disability.

 

[Cheri]

Vallee I just want to say that you are one of the few that actually gets it. Thanks!!

And we don't get it? I find it quite unfair that some hearing parents don't take up the time to use sign language when they are so focusing on hearing and speech. I'm sorry it just pissed me off when they limited their child's communication method and rick has shown no respect within the deaf community.

 

[rick48]

Educate yourself on the issues. Then, and only then, will you be able to contribute to the discussion.

I have, and having raised a child with a cochlear implant, which you have not, and having spent the better part of my adult life interacting with deaf people with cochlear implants, again which you have not: I can clearly and unequivocably say that you are full of crap.

Here is, your assumption:

"Inherent in this model is the automatic assumption that the difference is substandard, and treatment is focused on remediation of the physical pathology to the neglect of the psycho-social implications of disability. In other words, to reduce it to the case of a CI, a child is implanted, has had the pathological condition of deafness treated through medical intervention, and therefore, treatment is done. It fails to account for all of the enviromental factors that bear directly on an ability to function within a society."

Having met hundreds of parents and having made the cochlear implant decision myself---your "automatic assumption" is wrong. It is simplistic, narrow and incomplete as it fails to take into consideration that the cochlear implant is but one of many decisions parents make towards raising a child who can and does indeed function within a society.

Just like your comments about the Let Them Hear foundation a few weeks back (you remeber how badly that went for you): you once again have demonstrated that do not know what you are talking about, but are driven by your agenda. Instead of living in your little anti-ci world, you need to broaden your horizons and spend some time actually listening to those who have chosen the cochlear implant for their child instead of fighting with them.

You might actually learn that we are raising children, wonderful, individual children who are active participants in their families and communities and not "models".

 

[rockdrummer]

And we don't get it? I find it quite unfair that some hearing parents don't take up the time to use sign language when they are so focusing on hearing and speech. I'm sorry it just pissed me off when they limited their child's communication method and rick has shown no respect within the deaf community.

WOW!! I am absolutly blown away at how you took that personally. My coments are more on the order of "live and let live" and "Dont' judge others" especially if you haven't walked a mile in ther shoes, and even if you have, you still shouldn't judge them. That' was what my comment was about. I'm quite sure you get that to Cheri.

 

[Cheri]

WOW!! I am absolutly blown away at how you took that personally. My coments are more on the order of "live and let live" and "Dont' judge others" especially if you haven't walked a mile in ther shoes, and even if you have, you still shouldn't judge them. That' was what my comment was about. I'm quite sure you get that to Cheri.

 

[Tousi]

Oh dear, my speech therapists was awful means to me. She slapped my face because I could not pronouce f n p etc.. She pressured a wood stick on my tonuge, saying annhhhhh the drool was all over on my pretty dress. I was doing speech therapists spend 75% a day. 25% on academic and activity. That is why, I hate going to school because of bitch speech therapist.

I never want to learn to speak again. Choice ASL, it is my primary language. I am very against oralist... it is worthless in my life into real world....

Kalista, it is alright to be against oralism because it failed you and mostly because it was/is a failure for most who experienced it BUT don't be against/hate, etc the people who went thru it successfully. See the difference? This is what Deafhood demands of us.