Other people perspective AGAINST C.I. for the Deaf children

[shel90]

I think people are getting their feelings hurt or are becoming defensive for the wrong reasons. They should try to see that educators who care are trying to find the best way to educate deaf children so that the success rate will be higher than it was in the past. In the meantime, we respect the adults who have chosen the path that they are on now which is an entirely different thing as to what should be discussed here and that is the best methodology be utilized for deaf children today.

 

[Angel]

I think people are getting their feelings hurt or are becoming defensive for the wrong reasons. They should try to see that educators who care are trying to find the best way to educate deaf children so that the success rate will be higher than it was in the past. In the meantime, we respect the adults who have chosen the path that they are on now which is an entirely different thing as to what should be discussed here and that is the best methodology be utilized for deaf children today.

I'm sorry you saw it that way, but it was nowhere close to why I was upset earlier.

 

[jillio]

I think people are getting their feelings hurt or are becoming defensive for the wrong reasons. They should try to see that educators who care are trying to find the best way to educate deaf children so that the success rate will be higher than it was in the past. In the meantime, we respect the adults who have chosen the path that they are on now which is an entirely different thing as to what should be discussed here and that is the best methodology be utilized for deaf children today.

Well said. Thank you, Tousi.

 

[Kalista]

Most of the time hearing people intend to repeat what they're saying to a deaf person, and how would you feel if a hearing person says " I hate talking to deaf people cause I have to repeat what I say to them".

It is regarding to Deaf oralism people tend to misunderstand what I am saying. I am lost patient to sign slow or repeat for them.

It has nothing to do with hearing people. It is about Deaf who are oralism, like go to mainstream school or CI user or their parents forbid their children using sign language. Just like Clarke School for the Deaf, they forbid them to use sign language for years. There are more and more CI user for little Deaf children.

It looks like destroy our Deaf Community due to oppression from the professional dr, teachers, etc. etc.... The parents need to think more careful before they make a right decision. Why cant the parents look other side like us, we can do anything. Hello ????

 

[loml]

I m leaning more towards to Visual Phonics...wait and see.

I do not rule out CS. I just see it as a good teaching tool for some children.

U say that there is a 100% guarantee with CS but my coworkers who have had personal experience said that it benefits some children not all. I guess I will have to personally experience it myself before I make an opinion. However, I am learning more and more about Visual Phonics and maybe using that as a teaching tool.

With my class using ASL to teach English is working out just fine. Maybe CS for other different kinds of learners in the future.

As long as both languages are kept separate and pure for the children, I am willing to try new things. If it comes to mixing both, I wont cuz of my experience with it.

shel90- With all due respect, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I have never stated

U say that there is a 100% guarantee with CS.

 

[vallee]

It is regarding to Deaf oralism people tend to misunderstand what I am saying. I am lost patient to sign slow or repeat for them.

It has nothing to do with hearing people. It is about Deaf who are oralism, like go to mainstream school or CI user or their parents forbid their children using sign language. Just like Clarke School for the Deaf, they forbid them to use sign language for years. There are more and more CI user for little Deaf children.

It looks like destroy our Deaf Community due to oppression from the professional dr, teachers, etc. etc.... The parents need to think more careful before they make a right decision. Why cant the parents look other side like us, we can do anything. Hello ????

I am deaf and learning sign. I hope other deaf individuals will be patient and understanding as I learn. Just like the hearing as they repeat to me if I ask. I guess we pick the people that understand and accept us the most. I have to work with some people who I would put on the moon to get away from. I can't stand to be around and of course the majority are fantastic. They accept me for me.

The one thing I would never change are the people who put their children education first. I accept their choices and try to understand it from their views. Just because parents choose Cochlear Implants do not make them bad parents. They make choices for their child. Encourage them with love and understanding.

Shel, I'm glad you put the children in your class first. Until someone steps into a classroom they will never understand the joy, frustration, excitement, and just plain love for teaching. I hope your parents see that when they stop by your classroom. To me the greatest joy beside seeing the lightbulb go off is see the lightbulb go off on parents too.

Angel, I have enjoyed your comments today. I see your true love and accepting of others.

I am not agreeing with all of the comments, I will be honest, I have my own views and my own experiences. I am willing to listen to others. I do believe I have changed since I signed up for alldeaf. The one thing that will never change is family and children first.

 

[vallee]

shel90- With all due respect, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I have never stated

Loml, I really respect your love for CS. There are so many ways to educate others. 99% is the love to teaching and education, the rest is material. I hope I have just a fraction of your passion in my classroom.

 

[Cheri]

Nobody is forcing them to be ASL only otherwise we wouldnt have speech nor Language Arts classes. That would be illegal to have an ASL only program. I would be against it.

However, I have never heard of an ASL only program for children unless it is used as a foreign language class.

Yes in 1700, there was an ASL only program for the deaf, 85 percent of those deaf children had no spoken language, that is how oralism came in. I've done my research on Deaf Culture history.

I'm glad that you don't agree with the use of ASL only program, I trust that your school program is using speech with those deaf children.

I was wondering if it is possible to move speech class to after school so that the deaf children don't get pull out of class for an hour or 30 mins everyday, so that they won't miss anything important in the classroom. It is just a suggestion.

 

[Cheri]

Actually, Cheri, what I said was that, in my experience, I had not seen the Bi-Bi approach fail a student. That is very different from your quote bolded above..

That's not what you said on another thread you said that you have not met any deaf persons who had a better communication and literacy skills than those deaf children in the bi bi program. I can't copy and paste your post here since I'm on sidekick. But I remember perfect clear on what you stated.

I think people are getting their feelings hurt or becoming defensive for the wrong reason

What gives? Its ok to compare the history of deaf people verus the deaf people from today?

While I have no problems with people helping those deaf kids, but I do have a problem with comparing who is better than who and which program is better than another.

 

[deafdyke]

Yes in 1700, there was an ASL only program for the deaf, 85 percent of those deaf children had no spoken language

When was that?
Prolly when Deaf ed was in its very beginnings. And it wasn't methodology choice then........back then they thought that dhh folks couldn't learn orally. Besides back then, they didn't have the technology, not even hearing aids!

 

[Cheri]

When was that?
Prolly when Deaf ed was in its very beginnings. And it wasn't methodology choice then........back then they thought that dhh folks couldn't learn orally. Besides back then, they didn't have the technology, not even hearing aids!

You asked when was this? Read my post again, I said "1700" the year of 1700.

 

[deafdyke]

What's your cite?

 

[jillio]

That's not what you said on another thread you said that you have not met any deaf persons who had a better communication and literacy skills than those deaf children in the bi bi program. I can't copy and paste your post here since I'm on sidekick. But I remember perfect clear on what you stated.



What gives? Its ok to compare the history of deaf people verus the deaf people from today?

While I have no problems with people helping those deaf kids, but I do have a problem with comparing who is better than who and which program is better than another.

Please do find that post when you have time and refer me to it, because I think there may be some misunderstanding of my words. If you will refer me to the exact post, I can offer an explanation of the meaning of what I actually said.

If we don't compare one program to another, we have no foundation on which to base our assessment of which program offers the most benefit for the majority of students. We are not making judgements on who is "good" and who is "bad" at anything. We are assessing which program addresses the most needs of the students from the perspective of the methodology used and the results obtained. And that has to be done ifwe are ever to see where a program is not meeting needs of students and what can bedone to improve it. It happens every day in the educational system as applied to hearing children, and in special education, and in education for the blind, and in pre-school programs. Why wouldn't we do it for deaf children to make sure that their educational needs are being met. Assessment is apart oflife on all levels. Health care is assessed, job performance is assessed, the criminal justice system is assessed, the efficiency of social programs is assessed, and on andon and on. It is the only way to determine how a program is working nd what changes could be made to make it work better.

Andif we don't compare situations from an historical perspective, we are doomed to repeat history. We are not comparing people, we arecomparing the way the systems are serving those people and what the results are.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Originally Posted by shel90
Nobody is forcing them to be ASL only otherwise we wouldnt have speech nor Language Arts classes. That would be illegal to have an ASL only program. I would be against it.

However, I have never heard of an ASL only program for children unless it is used as a foreign language class.

Yes in 1700, there was an ASL only program for the deaf, 85 percent of those deaf children had no spoken language, that is how oralism came in. I've done my research on Deaf Culture history.

I'm glad that you don't agree with the use of ASL only program, I trust that your school program is using speech with those deaf children.

I was wondering if it is possible to move speech class to after school so that the deaf children don't get pull out of class for an hour or 30 mins everyday, so that they won't miss anything important in the classroom. It is just a suggestion.

Yes, Cheri is correct that there're school for deaf and dumb who teachs to develop sign language only. It's not just America but Europe as well.

I support sign language with speak on same time including speech class instead of just sign language without speak or just oral without sign language.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Also, several Eurpoean countries education for hearing kids are BiBi themselves, right? From my understanding, English is taught as a 2nd language?

Yes, sign language is their first language before English language, that's why they have one hearing teacher and one deaf teacher in class room. It helps deaf children to understand what difference is about and know where they really are. Their education is focus on literacy but they do have speech therapy.

I would say yes... most is HOH. They attend "hearing" school. Yes, they have hearing children to involve with deaf children to learn each other where they come from... Some hearing children like to learn sign and some deaf children like to learn speak. They learn fast each other than we teach them... Interesting. They do itself automaic with their own moviation.

Deaf children watch the different movement between hearing and deaf teacher in class room. Some of them said that they feel more easier to understand with deaf teacher than hearing teacher. Interesting. I would hearing teacher to accept the deaf's own language.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

How do u expect teachers to give the children the appropriate models of language using speech and ASL in the classroom? The only time a teacher can do that is if they go from ASL to speech but not all children understand speech from the teacher and will miss out on their education.

If the teacher uses both at the same time, then it would be no longer ASL nor English..it would be Sim-Comming.

Do you mean that teachers use ASL without speak to deaf children?

I would say that there're common in European countries to use sign language with speak on the same time. I just can't follow anyone who use just sign language without speak.

See the example of BSL like that...
http://www.alldeaf.com/our-world-our-culture/48529-coming-out-but-not-what-you-think.html

 

[Liebling:-)))]

As long as both languages are kept separate and pure for the children, I am willing to try new things. If it comes to mixing both, I wont cuz of my experience with it.

Curious - you use ASL without speak? Is it you feel comfortable to use ASL without speak?

Do you use ASL without speak when you are with deaf people and use speak without sign language when you with your family?

I use sign language with speak with deaf people and my children because I want them know what I am.

 

[Cheri]

Yes, Cheri is correct that there're school for deaf and dumb who teachs to develop sign language only. It's not just America but Europe as well.

Yep and deaf-mute. You might heard of Samuel Heinicke, he's a german in 1721 his method was oral, he strongly opposed ASL because he met a young deaf boy who had only knew signs and had no spoken speech, he taught the boy how to speak and it became successful, the boy learned to speak and lip read, in 1778 Samuel opened his first oral school in Germany.

I'm like you, Liebling I prefer signs and spoken speech. I opposed the use of ASL only. I don't want any deaf to go through life where it'll be hard on them.

 

[deafdyke]

Oh definitly Cheri, full toolbox is very very important.

 

[jillio]

Again, Bi-Bi is not ASL only. It is bilingual, meaning 2 languages (English and ASL) and bicultural, meaning 2 cultures (hearing and Deaf).