Oregon community college shooting, multiple casualties

[whatdidyousay!]

Google is your friend- Maine population statistics.

quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/23000.html

No you should be able to back this up on your own . My virus protection didn't say this was safe to use so I will not use it.

 

[jonnyghost]

That's one of them. Magazines should also be limited to only hold maybe 10 rounds, that would limit the killing power these people have because every 10 rounds they would have to reload and it would give those people with the situational awareness you are so fond of promoting a chance to attack them while they are reloading or switching weapons.

So why is it an assault rifle? How is it different than any other semi auto rifle? Changing magazines only takes a second. Limiting mag capacity isn't going to save any lives.

 

[jonnyghost]

If you're not singling out people with ASD then why did you bring them up?

 

[jonnyghost]

In 2013 rifles (including AR15) killed 285 people according to the FBI but knives killed 1,490. Should we ban knives? They killed 5 times as many people.

 

[seb]

If you're not singling out people with ASD then why did you bring them up?

Because the study YOU brought up showed a disproportionate number of shooters to have or suspected to have had ASD. My contention is that everyone should have to have a mental health check before they can buy a gun and you want everyone to be allowed to go into a 7/11 and be able to buy a gun like you would a Big Gulp. To hell with being cautious lets just let everyone own and wear a gun and we will all be safer, isn't that the moto of the NRA?

 

[seb]

In 2013 rifles (including AR15) killed 285 people according to the FBI but knives killed 1,490. Should we ban knives? They killed 5 times as many people.

You forgot to limit the knife killings to one particular kind of knife and grouped all knives together, yet you limited the 285 killed to just rifles. Now if you put all other gun deaths as well as those wounded into the picture the number of murders using a gun makes murders by knife a small number.

Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and thousands more injuries annually.[1] According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms (excluding BB and pellet guns) were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms.[1][6]

The AR's have a lot more killing power than a hand gun since you can shoot lot more bullets in a much shorter time frame since you don't have to reload as often. Once again I'm just taking a common sense approach to the problem we have in the US since we have roughly 12 times the number of mass shootings than the next nearest country. We obviously are doing something wrong here.

 

[seb]

So why is it an assault rifle? How is it different than any other semi auto rifle? Changing magazines only takes a second. Limiting mag capacity isn't going to save any lives.

I wouldn't limit it to just assault rifles but I would like to see any semi automatic/automatic rifle outlawed, they have no place outside of a war zone. There only purpose is to kill and kill a lot in a short period of time.

 

[seb]

No you should be able to back this up on your own . My virus protection didn't say this was safe to use so I will not use it.

JUST GOOGLE MAINE POPULATION STATISTICS THEN. They will pop up. Sorry my virus protection didn't go off on it and you wanted me to back it up, so I put the link up that I used, if you are too afraid to look for the statistics you will have to take what I used as proof, sorry. You could also go to the US census and get the figures from them. I'm sure the US site is safe.

 

[jonnyghost]

Because the study YOU brought up showed a disproportionate number of shooters to have or suspected to have had ASD. My contention is that everyone should have to have a mental health check before they can buy a gun and you want everyone to be allowed to go into a 7/11 and be able to buy a gun like you would a Big Gulp. To hell with being cautious lets just let everyone own and wear a gun and we will all be safer, isn't that the moto of the NRA?

I didn't bring it up. You quoted statistics from it. You've been talking about people with ASD since the beginning of this debate.

I doubt the NRA has ever said any such thing. I also never said you should be able to buy guns at a 7/11. I think the background checks we have now are perfectly legitimate.

 

[jonnyghost]

I wouldn't limit it to just assault rifles but I would like to see any semi automatic/automatic rifle outlawed, they have no place outside of a war zone. There only purpose is to kill and kill a lot in a short period of time.

Except that they where used in very few murders. Less that 300 in 2013. They are commonly used to hunt and for sport as well as ligitimately for self defense.

 

[jonnyghost]

You forgot to limit the knife killings to one particular kind of knife and grouped all knives together, yet you limited the 285 killed to just rifles. Now if you put all other gun deaths as well as those wounded into the picture the number of murders using a gun makes murders by knife a small number.

Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and thousands more injuries annually.[1] According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms (excluding BB and pellet guns) were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms.[1][6]

The AR's have a lot more killing power than a hand gun since you can shoot lot more bullets in a much shorter time frame since you don't have to reload as often. Once again I'm just taking a common sense approach to the problem we have in the US since we have roughly 12 times the number of mass shootings than the next nearest country. We obviously are doing something wrong here.

You said assault weapons. I asked you what you meant by that and you wouldn't answer so I assumed your talking about ar15s and AK47 and SKS carbines or other such weapons. They are all rifles. Knives killed 5 times as many people as rifles so knives are more dangerous than assault weapons. I'm not sure how or why you would seperate kinds of knives. They are all sharp pieces of metal used to stab and slash. Brand?

 

[seb]

I am sure that many people will remember the victims more than the shooter.. don't blanket statement that everyone will remember only the shooter.

Sorry, but in most of these killings it's the shooter who people remember and the victims are just that nameless victims. Do you remember any of the names in the Sandy hook killings (without looking it up?) but there is a good chance you will remember the killer was Adam Lanza. Do you remember any of the names in the CO. theater shooting? But you probably remember that the shooter was James Holmes. The victims just end up being victims for eternity. Sad but true.

 

[seb]

If you're not singling out people with ASD then why did you bring them up?

If you go back to post #93 you will see that I was not the first to bring ASD up.

In post #97 I said: Adam Lanza is the only one I am aware of that had Aspergers as well as OCD and possible undiagnosed schizophrenia. His mother took him off his medication and even though her son had some serious issues still taught him to shoot and he had free access to the guns she kept in the house. Other shooters also had family members or friends who knew their children or friends had mental problems but did nothing to alert authorities about the shooters threats or actions prior to the shootings.

I'm not the one who got the ball rolling on ASD someone else did. Before you go and point fingers check out if you have your facts straight.

 

[seb]

You forgot to limit the knife killings to one particular kind of knife and grouped all knives together, yet you limited the 285 killed to just rifles. Now if you put all other gun deaths as well as those wounded into the picture the number of murders using a gun makes murders by knife a small number.

Gun violence in the United States results in thousands of deaths and thousands more injuries annually.[1] According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms (excluding BB and pellet guns) were used in 84,258 nonfatal injuries (26.65 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). 1.3% of all deaths in the country were related to firearms.[1][6]

You said assault weapons. I asked you what you meant by that and you wouldn't answer so I assumed your talking about ar15s and AK47 and SKS carbines or other such weapons. They are all rifles. Knives killed 5 times as many people as rifles so knives are more dangerous than assault weapons. I'm not sure how or why you would seperate kinds of knives. They are all sharp pieces of metal used to stab and slash. Brand?

I was basically talking about any weapon that is considered an assault weapon, that is semi automatic or automatic, with high capacity magazines and this can include handguns with magazines greater than 10 rounds and these are used in more than half of the mass murders.

However, a hand gun, shotgun, rifle, assault weapon(semi automatic or automatic weapons) , they all are used or can be used to kill and the weapon of choice for most people in the US who commit murder is a firearm and over have of the killers have used assault weapons since 1982, More than half of the killers we studied in our investigation of 62 mass shootings over the last three decades possessed weapons that would be banned by Feinstein's bill, including various semi-automatic rifles, guns with military features, and handguns using magazines with more than 10 rounds. The damage these weapons can cause has been on grim display since last summer, from Aurora to Milwaukee to Minneapolis to Newtown, where attacks carried out with them left a total of 118 people injured and dead.clearly very few chose a knife to do the killing.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics...h-capacity-magazines-mass-shootings-feinstein

How many mass murderers have used a knife to kill their victims? As I said before you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[seb]

I doubt the NRA has ever said any such thing. I also never said you should be able to buy guns at a 7/11. I think the background checks we have now are perfectly legitimate.

I took a little liberty with the quote and perhaps paraphrased it a little too much. The actual quote from Wayne LaPierre is: “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Yeh, the background checks have done a fantastic job at stopping these shootings, I think they are working just fine! As long as you are hell bent on killing someone or shooting up a public place.

 

[jonnyghost]

If you go back to post #93 you will see that I was not the first to bring ASD up.

In post #97 I said: Adam Lanza is the only one I am aware of that had Aspergers as well as OCD and possible undiagnosed schizophrenia. His mother took him off his medication and even though her son had some serious issues still taught him to shoot and he had free access to the guns she kept in the house. Other shooters also had family members or friends who knew their children or friends had mental problems but did nothing to alert authorities about the shooters threats or actions prior to the shootings.

I'm not the one who got the ball rolling on ASD someone else did. Before you go and point fingers check out if you have your facts straight.

Well I apologize. What I should have asked and what I meant was why, if you aren't singling out people with ASD are you bringing up statistics from that study?

 

[jonnyghost]

I took a little liberty with the quote and perhaps paraphrased it a little too much. The actual quote from Wayne LaPierre is: “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Yeh, the background checks have done a fantastic job at stopping these shootings, I think they are working just fine! As long as you are hell bent on killing someone or shooting up a public place.

I agree with that quote from Mr. LaPierre.

 

[jonnyghost]

However, a hand gun, shotgun, rifle, assault weapon(semi automatic or automatic weapons) , they all are used or can be used to kill and the weapon of choice for most people in the US who commit murder is a firearm and over have of the killers have used assault weapons since 1982, More than half of the killers we studied in our investigation of 62 mass shootings over the last three decades possessed weapons that would be banned by Feinstein's bill, including various semi-automatic rifles, guns with military features, and handguns using magazines with more than 10 rounds. The damage these weapons can cause has been on grim display since last summer, from Aurora to Milwaukee to Minneapolis to Newtown, where attacks carried out with them left a total of 118 people injured and dead.clearly very few chose a knife to do the killing.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics...h-capacity-magazines-mass-shootings-feinstein

How many mass murderers have used a knife to kill their victims? As I said before you are comparing apples to oranges.

You mentioned assault weapons. I pointed out that all rifles combine kill less people than knives. My argument stands.

You said you where not talking about a ban? Now you're bring up the Feinstein bill?

What "military features" make an AR more deadly than any other semi auto?

"assault weapon(semi automatic or automatic weapons)" Non of these shootings used an automatic weapon.

Here is how long it takes to change a magazine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65_b3ZM0ujU
10 round mags don't slow you down.

I don't link to any NRA propaganda so why are you sending me to http://www.motherjones.com? Give me facts, like FBI statistics. I'm not going to comment on their bad journalism.

 

[jonnyghost]

I took a little liberty with the quote and perhaps paraphrased it a little too much. The actual quote from Wayne LaPierre is: “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Yeh, the background checks have done a fantastic job at stopping these shootings, I think they are working just fine! As long as you are hell bent on killing someone or shooting up a public place.

And there is a HUGE difference between giving everyone a gun and giving good people guns.

 

[seb]

I agree with that quote from Mr. LaPierre.

I knew you would!