oral death program question

[Tousi]

Meh, implants won't work for everyone, ASL will still survive, the culture will still survive. Personally I don't see some kind of effort to "save" the culture or language, which is a waste anyway because people are still going to need it, justification for NOT implanting CI in the people who can use it.

Genocide is a bad choice anyway, implants don't remove DNA so even if their deafness is generic in nature it can still be passed on......

It is the aim of those in the medical/money profession to implant all babies at around six months so it doesn't matter that "....implants won't work for everyone....". Don't tell me there won't be a tragic wasteland a few years after I'm gone.....

 

[Tousi]

Maybe it's a type of eugenics?

It it were any other endangered culture the UN would be all over it.

Yeah, eugenics is a better word...perhaps a harder eugenics than that of A.G. Bell......would that make it more sneaky and harmful over time than my ill-informed use of "genocide"?

 

[drphil]

The discussion re: Cochlear Implant being an instrument of genocide to the deaf community has been discussed since the 90s. Harlan Lane et al.
Whether it is true or not seems to feed an ongoing debate with the context of "sociology"
Resolved in the future?

aside: I am bilateral DEAF since 2006 and did read the Harlan Lane et al book-"The journery into the DEAFWORLD"

 

[Reba]

Yeah, eugenics is a better word...perhaps a harder eugenics than that of A.G. Bell......would that make it more sneaky and harmful over time than my ill-informed use of "genocide"?

To me, either word leaves a bad taste. The end result is the same; only the techniques are different.

In the past, eugenics centered around eliminating deaf babies by not allowing deaf men and women to marry. Now that we are "enlightened" and know that most deaf babies are born to hearing parents the shift is to post-birth deaf baby elimination. Not a physical elimination but a linguistic-cultural elimination. All in the name of "doing what's best for them and society."

The genocide aspect would more closely describe what happened at the Milan Conference. IMO. That was an attempt to remove the signing deaf population, not by taking away their physical lives but by taking away their existing linguistic-cultural life-blood, sign language.

 

[TODtobe]

To me, either word leaves a bad taste. The end result is the same; only the techniques are different.

In the past, eugenics centered around eliminating deaf babies by not allowing deaf men and women to marry. Now that we are "enlightened" and know that most deaf babies are born to hearing parents the shift is to post-birth deaf baby elimination. Not a physical elimination but a linguistic-cultural elimination. All in the name of "doing what's best for them and society."

The genocide aspect would more closely describe what happened at the Milan Conference. IMO. That was an attempt to remove the signing deaf population, not by taking away their physical lives but by taking away their existing linguistic-cultural life-blood, sign language.

But is anyone taking ASL away from those who use it? How can you say that a deaf child who hears and speaks is somehow being denied a culture that they have never been a part of? At what point does one become Deaf? As soon as you lose 1 decibel of hearing?

 

[deafdyke]

But is anyone taking ASL away from those who use it? How can you say that a deaf child who hears and speaks is somehow being denied a culture that they have never been a part of? At what point does one become Deaf? As soon as you lose 1 decibel of hearing?

Because the deaf child who hears and speaks is not hearing like a hearing person. They are functionally HOH.....Hearing and speaking is a very strong weakness with dhh kids.......It takes a lot of energy for them to hear and speak. I have a suggestion for you. Sign up for a foriegn language class,and wear earplugs while learning it....It's hard right? That is the way it is for oral dhh kids.....They're not hearing...yes, they're not voice off Deaf, with no residual hearing.....but making a kid function as "normally as possible" is extremely silly.....Say we educated hearing children by solely concentrating on a defiect and ignoring their strenghs.....That would be very silly right? SO why do we do that with dhh kids? ASL capitalizes on their nautral visual processing strengh.......

 

[Phoenix23]

Who determines what "normal" is anyway... Hell, I'm 27 years old almost and I still blast NSYNC in my car driving down the road dancing with strangers at stop lights... that's "normal" for me. =D

 

[shel90]

QUOTE=TODtobe;2232176]But is anyone taking ASL away from those who use it? How can you say that a deaf child who hears and speaks is somehow being denied a culture that they have never been a part of? At what point does one become Deaf? As soon as you lose 1 decibel of hearing?[/QUOTE]

I never had ASL growing up and I could have had a better life with it. No thanks to the oral-only philosophy. :rl: @ the oral only philosophy.

 

[Reba]

But is anyone taking ASL away from those who use it?

They are kept from learning ASL in the first place.

How can you say that a deaf child who hears and speaks is somehow being denied a culture that they have never been a part of?

They aren't given the opportunity to become part of that culture.

At what point does one become Deaf? As soon as you lose 1 decibel of hearing?

One becomes "deaf" when one can't aurally understand everyday conversation or hear environmental sounds without artificial aid. One becomes "Deaf" when one joins the Deaf community and participates in the culture and language of that community. The language of that community in the United States and part of Canada is ASL.

 

[TODtobe]

Because the deaf child who hears and speaks is not hearing like a hearing person. They are functionally HOH.....Hearing and speaking is a very strong weakness with dhh kids.......It takes a lot of energy for them to hear and speak. I have a suggestion for you. Sign up for a foriegn language class,and wear earplugs while learning it....It's hard right? That is the way it is for oral dhh kids.....They're not hearing...yes, they're not voice off Deaf, with no residual hearing.....but making a kid function as "normally as possible" is extremely silly.....Say we educated hearing children by solely concentrating on a defiect and ignoring their strenghs.....That would be very silly right? SO why do we do that with dhh kids? ASL capitalizes on their nautral visual processing strengh.......

Ok, but isn't Deaf culture very much dependant on the use of ASL? If a child has never used ASL, how are they a member of the Deaf community? I am not saying they are hearing, but they aren't Deaf either.

 

[Bottesini]

Ok, but isn't Deaf culture very much dependant on the use of ASL? If a child has never used ASL, how are they a member of the Deaf community? I am not saying they are hearing, but they aren't Deaf either.

 

[TODtobe]

They are kept from learning ASL in the first place.


They aren't given the opportunity to become part of that culture.


One becomes "deaf" when one can't aurally understand everyday conversation or hear environmental sounds without artificial aid. One becomes "Deaf" when one joins the Deaf community and participates in the culture and language of that community. The language of that community in the United States and part of Canada is ASL.

Right, so if a child does not use ASL, they are not Deaf, so no one is taking ASL away from them. You can not commit genocide if you are not taking their culture away. Most deaf people are not Deaf, including most deaf children.

 

[Reba]

Right, so if a child does not use ASL, they are not Deaf, so no one is taking ASL away from them. You can not commit genocide if you are not taking their culture away. Most deaf people are not Deaf, including most deaf children.

Apparently you missed the part of my post where I stated that they are denied the opportunity to become a part of the community.

If the opportunity is denied to individuals to join a cultural community, that community will eventually die out as the senior members pass away.

It's the same with indigenous cultural groups around the world. If the young ones aren't allowed to learn their native language and culture, are kept isolated from the senior members who pass down the traditions, those groups die out.

 

[TODtobe]

Apparently you missed the part of my post where I stated that they are denied the opportunity to become a part of the community.

If the opportunity is denied to individuals to join a cultural community, that community will eventually die out as the senior members pass away.

It's the same with indigenous cultural groups around the world. If the young ones aren't allowed to learn their native language and culture, are kept isolated from the senior members who pass down the traditions, those groups die out.

Native language for a deaf child would often be English.

Noun1.native language - the language that a person has spoken from earliest childhood


They are learning it first, and from infantcy. Another definition says it is your L1, or "mother language" all of which would be English for most deaf children, not ASL.

 

[Tousi]

:roll:

 

[Reba]

Native language for a deaf child would often be English.

Noun1.native language - the language that a person has spoken from earliest childhood

They are learning it first, and from infantcy. Another definition says it is your L1, or "mother language" all of which would be English for most deaf children, not ASL.

Native as in natural, which for deaf people would be a visual language. It should be acquired thru natural everyday exposure. It can be L1 if allowed to be used in the home from infancy.

English is a natural language for hearing people.

BTW, being a member of the Deaf community doesn't mean the individual can't be bi- or multi-lingual. That means adding languages without subtracting ASL as the natural primary language.

Are you saying that deaf children naturally acquire spoken English from infancy in their home environments without device-aided hearing or outside therapy?

I'm curious how many Deaf adults do you know on a personal level?

 

[TODtobe]

Native as in natural, which for deaf people would be a visual language. It should be acquired thru natural everyday exposure. It can be L1 if allowed to be used in the home from infancy.

English is a natural language for hearing people.

BTW, being a member of the Deaf community doesn't mean the individual can't be bi- or multi-lingual. That means adding languages without subtracting ASL as the natural primary language.

Are you saying that deaf children naturally acquire spoken English from infancy in their home environments without device-aided hearing or outside therapy?

I'm curious how many Deaf adults do you know on a personal level?

And English is a natural language for deaf children and can and is naturally acquired through everyday exposure, just as ASL ccould be.

I know a few Deaf adults, but I would not say many. 3 or 4 socially, others just in passing. There is a Deaf adult who attends my church, and I am pretty close with one of the deaf teachers I worked with.

 

[Reba]

And English is a natural language for deaf children and can and is naturally acquired through everyday exposure, just as ASL ccould be.

Even if they don't naturally hear it? Then how are they naturally exposed to it?

I know a few Deaf adults, but I would not say many. 3 or 4 socially, others just in passing. There is a Deaf adult who attends my church, and I am pretty close with one of the deaf teachers I worked with.

So you really don't know much about the Deaf experience, do you? That is, what life is like outside of the classroom?

 

[dogmom]

TOD, I don't see how you know anything if you think that English is a natural language for deaf children and can be acquired through everyday exposure.

Do you not see how utterly clueless you are and how disrespectful is your view of deaf people and ASL??

 

[TODtobe]

TOD, I don't see how you know anything if you think that English is a natural language for deaf children and can be acquired through everyday exposure.

Do you not see how utterly clueless you are and how disrespectful is your view of deaf people and ASL??

There are tons of deaf kids acquiring English naturally through everyday exposure. They hear it. They use hearing devices that allow them to hear and understand spoken English. They then listen to the language being used around them and acquire it naturally through audition. I have seen it with my own eyes.