Oral Deaf Education Schools of today

[Lillys dad]

Jillio-
"Just my opinion, but I believe that these are the parents who have not completed the grief process and reached acceptance. They are stuck forever more in their grief. Parents naturally go through a grieving process just as you would with a death. I thought I had a hearing child, but then was told I had a deaf child. I had to let go of my perceptions, not of the child. Ih ad to grieve for the expectations I had internalized because those expectations had to be modified. You grieve for the loss of the dreams you form in hte process of becoming a parent. If you walk all the way through that grief process, you reach acceptance, and begin to undertand that you can still have the same expectations and the same dreams for your child and the only thing that needs to be modified is the couse allowed for acheiving those dreams. If you are very lucky, you reach the point where you have an understanding and conviction that your deaf child has provided you with an experience that has enriched your life in ways that were never imagined at the time of diagnosis."

Very, very well said.

 

[rick48]

Jillio,

Great post. You really captured and expressed what parents go through. Thanks!
Rick

 

[Lillys dad]

Along the lines of this thread, and parenting in general, I am reading a little book called "Father to daughter". This book is all quotes provided by fathers, about raising girls into successful women. I just read one quote and had to post it here
"Never forget that supportive fathers raise daughters with high self esteem".
WOW! That just explains it all doesnt it!
I started another thread in the parenting section with more good quotes, alot of them are very vital to raising a deaf kid.

 

[shel90]

Jillio-
"Just my opinion, but I believe that these are the parents who have not completed the grief process and reached acceptance. They are stuck forever more in their grief. Parents naturally go through a grieving process just as you would with a death. I thought I had a hearing child, but then was told I had a deaf child. I had to let go of my perceptions, not of the child. Ih ad to grieve for the expectations I had internalized because those expectations had to be modified. You grieve for the loss of the dreams you form in hte process of becoming a parent. If you walk all the way through that grief process, you reach acceptance, and begin to undertand that you can still have the same expectations and the same dreams for your child and the only thing that needs to be modified is the couse allowed for acheiving those dreams. If you are very lucky, you reach the point where you have an understanding and conviction that your deaf child has provided you with an experience that has enriched your life in ways that were never imagined at the time of diagnosis."

Very, very well said.

My mom never really fully got over the grieving process of having 2 deaf children even though my brother and I are happy adults with our own lives. I know she is a lot better about it but there is a small part of her that remains bitter for the struggles she had to go thru with raising us especially as a single mother.

My mom told me that when she found out I was deaf at 7 months old, she felt very guilty like she contributed to it. She never really recovered from it.

 

[DreamDeaf]

When I was born, my mother suspected something was wrong when I didn't respond to normal stimuli - and she then took me to a doctor, and the doctor confirmed it. At first she felt guilty, but when Grandfather told her there had been some deafness in his side of the family, she then knew it might be hereditary. Grandmother and Grandfather took over my child care, as Mom was a full-time college student and working full time.

During my years of growing up on the family farm, Grandmother and Grandfather taught me quite a bit - reading, writing, some lipreading and a lot of life's little lessons.

After several failed forays into state schools for the deaf, I was enrolled at Central Institute for the Deaf in St. Louis, MO - a long way from the family farm in western Kansas.

Although I didn't like being at CID, due to a problem with the school principal, superintendent and floor supervisor, I am grateful to the faculty - they preserved with me, taught me to speak and to finish my lipreading education, while giving me a good grounding for mainstreaming into public school. However, I can tell you I was glad to leave CID way, way behind me.

I had a chance to visit CID several years ago, and I am pleased to see how far they have come along since I last attended there - and I think their educating has become better, too.

LillysDad, I think CID is a good choice - I know it will be hard for you, as a dad, to see her grow up and leave for school, but at CID, she will have a chance to learn how to speak and lipread, and interact with her peers that are in the same class with her.

What's more, I'm very glad that the faculty are more open-minded to ASL - although it's still not allowed in class, the students do use ASL openly and freely in recess, at lunch and in between classes.

I know some will berate me for even suggesting CID, but I do believe they've come a long way since then, and improved greatly.

P.S. - 12 years after I was born, my first cousin (my mother's sister's first-born son) was born profoundly deaf - so we knew for sure it was hereditary in the family.

 

[Lillys dad]

DreamDeaf, Thank youi. As you said, it isnt easy. Nothing involved in the decision process has been easy. The decision process involved in any parenting is not easy. Throw in deafness, and it makes it a little more challenging. But, on the opposite side of the coin, parenting a deaf child also becomes more rewarding. You become more involved in your childs life due to necessity. I do not have any other children, so I cannot actually compare raising Lilly to raising a hearing kid, but by looking at hearing kids, and the relationships that most have with the parents, is so different that it appears foriegn. I simply cannot understand how most parents can have SO LITTLE involvement.

 

[deafskeptic]

My mom never really fully got over the grieving process of having 2 deaf children even though my brother and I are happy adults with our own lives. I know she is a lot better about it but there is a small part of her that remains bitter for the struggles she had to go thru with raising us especially as a single mother.

My mom told me that when she found out I was deaf at 7 months old, she felt very guilty like she contributed to it. She never really recovered from it.

Nods, it's hard on hearing parents and sometimes they think it's their fault.

I remember when my father asked me if I blamed my parents for my deafness. When I said no, he cried.

I was really shocked that he'd ask me such a question as it never occurred to me that my parents were to blame. I've always thought my deafness as one of those random things that happened. In 1966 there was no way he could have prevented this. I was born 3 years too early for the Rubella vaccine. I have no doubt my father would have prevented this if he could. I think my Dad is a lot like your mom in some ways and he's a retired MD.

I am very thankful that my parents gave me the tools to deal with my deafness.

There's never any easy to deal with a deaf child if you're a hearing parent and no easy answers in raising a child. I'd think the Deaf culture would seem bizarre to some hearing parents of a deaf child.

 

[DreamDeaf]

DreamDeaf, Thank youi. As you said, it isnt easy. Nothing involved in the decision process has been easy. The decision process involved in any parenting is not easy. Throw in deafness, and it makes it a little more challenging. But, on the opposite side of the coin, parenting a deaf child also becomes more rewarding. You become more involved in your childs life due to necessity. I do not have any other children, so I cannot actually compare raising Lilly to raising a hearing kid, but by looking at hearing kids, and the relationships that most have with the parents, is so different that it appears foriegn. I simply cannot understand how most parents can have SO LITTLE involvement.

You know the quote, "It takes a village to raise a child..."? In this case, it took a family to raise two deaf children - and I know that my cousin and I received the best possible educations and lifestyles we could ever hope to have at that time. Sure, we've hit a lot of bumps and potholes, but we are doing as well as we can, with a lot of potential for a good future.

I'm sure, with you as her dad, and having such a loving family, your daughter will do just as well, and even better.

It will be very interesting to see her grow up - and I hope to have the chance to see how she makes of her future someday!

 

[Lillys dad]

I personally never belived in the "it takes a village" mentality. Buyt I know what you mean.
I will definately be there to see her grow up and flourish.

 

[greema]

DD: As a CODA, as well as a mother of a deaf child, I really resent your statements...... My child is deaf and is implanted as well...... I did not want to CHANGE him just open up more doors and give him more opportunites... When I found out that my child was deaf, I cried.. and cried for days........ Why??????? Because I knew all too well of the struggles that many deaf people, including my parents have and had to face....... No parent wants their child to struggle....... I have SEEN firsthand the resentment of being isolated and living in this microcosim called "the Deaf community"..Did I want to FIX my child???? No, I accept him for who he is and I love him with all my heart. I actually feel BLESSED and privledged to be his mother. I wouldn't change anything about my child, including his deafness. It's who he is......just as much as being bi-laterally implanted is a part of him...As Rick as earlier, I know not of one parent that you describe.... Many parents research and make painful decisions for their children.. Not because of their "disablity" but because of their LOVE for their child. It's no different than a parent wanting to provide more for a child than what he/she had while growing up...It's called "being a parent"... I know that I rambling here and not making any sense, but I am sooooo furious with your insensitiivty..... It sounds as if you have some issues that you like to deflect on the parents of today.

Double, you're not rambling and I can fully understand and appreciate what you, Lillys dad and others are saying. DD had said she is cynical when I asked her why all the negativity and I'm going to leave it at that.

Anyways, Lillys dad's statements about CID is right on -- I went to CID myself at age 5 through 9 and moved on to public school starting in the 6th grade through graduation (from Webster High for J's info). Yes I have heard horror stories about CID and St. Joe and I have had my hands swatted with a ruler for "signing" but that has all changed. The times are a-changing and they no longer say "big boys don't cry" and all that crap. I have seen for myself the changes in education for the deaf (remember I have 2 deaf adult children and 3 deaf/hoh grandchildren).

 

[deafdyke]

As a CODA, as well as a mother of a deaf child, I really resent your statements...... My child is deaf and is implanted as well...... I did not want to CHANGE him just open up more doors and give him more opportunites... When I found out that my child was deaf, I cried.. and cried for days........ Why??????? Because I knew all too well of the struggles that many deaf people, including my parents have and had to face....... No parent wants their child to struggle....... I have SEEN firsthand the resentment of being isolated and living in this microcosim called "the Deaf community"..Did I want to FIX my child???? No, I accept him for who he is and I love him with all my heart.

Double Trouble and everyone else. I AM NOT talking about parents who have their kids undergo oral training, for an additional tool. I understand parents go through a greiving process.... but the thing is it does seem like there's a certain percentage of hearing parents who are still permanantly grieving that their kids aren't "healthy and normal", and so really buy into the pro oral rhetoric that going pure oral only is going to somehow make their kids "normal"
I'm not attacking parents who chose oral first, and who are OK with their kids learning Sign at a point a little later on in their childhood. Like these parents tend to really buy into oral only arguments that there's no real downside to oral-only. That is all............

 

[rick48]

Double Trouble and everyone else. I AM NOT talking about parents who have their kids undergo oral training, for an additional tool. I understand parents go through a greiving process.... but the thing is it does seem like there's a certain percentage of hearing parents who are still permanantly grieving that their kids aren't "healthy and normal", and so really buy into the pro oral rhetoric that going pure oral only is going to somehow make their kids "normal"
I'm not attacking parents who chose oral first, and who are OK with their kids learning Sign at a point a little later on in their childhood. Like these parents tend to really buy into oral only arguments that there's no real downside to oral-only. That is all............

Why do you feel the need to "attack" parents at all?

I find very little that is positive in your posts and even less of a tolerance towards those who have chosen a different path then the one you endorse. Yes, it sounds "nice" to say that you endorse the "toolbox" approach but even that does not work best for everychild and if it turns out that one approach works very well for a child, who are you, or anyone of us for that matter, to "attack" the parents?
Rick

 

[shel90]

Why do you feel the need to "attack" parents at all?

I find very little that is positive in your posts and even less of a tolerance towards those who have chosen a different path then the one you endorse. Yes, it sounds "nice" to say that you endorse the "toolbox" approach but even that does not work best for everychild and if it turns out that one approach works very well for a child, who are you, or anyone of us for that matter, to "attack" the parents?
Rick

Well, I was only shown one approach and it did work for me growing up as far as being able to communicate with hearing people and academics but one thing was forgotten: My identity..I grew up idenitifying myself as hearing and trying to meet that identity was tough. Hurted my self esteem as a child so I lost confidence in myself. That is why I believe the full toolbox is the best. It seems that many parents forget about the child's self esteem and identity. If both approaches were used, then the child can have both to identify with or choose to identify one over the other.

 

[jillio]

My mom never really fully got over the grieving process of having 2 deaf children even though my brother and I are happy adults with our own lives. I know she is a lot better about it but there is a small part of her that remains bitter for the struggles she had to go thru with raising us especially as a single mother.

My mom told me that when she found out I was deaf at 7 months old, she felt very guilty like she contributed to it. She never really recovered from it.

Unfortunately, when the parent doesn't deal with their own issues, it is the child that ends up sufferingthe consequences. I, too raised my son as a single parent, as his father died when he was 6 years old. And I, too suffered through the difficulties my son experienced, not as a direct result of his deafness, but as the result of others' misperceptions of deafness. But I no longer grieve, nor do I bear any resentment. It was my experience, that if I were to get through the day to day existence of being the breadwinner, a parent, an advocate, and also maintain some sense of myself, that I simply didn't have time to do an effective job of all that and still have time afford myself the luxury of anger and resentment. I think the guilt makes us perhaps do more than is truly healthy and beneficial for our deaf kids as a form of compensation for our guilt, and when that becomes an unbearable strain, we begin to resent the fact that we have been placed in this position. Perhaps unconsciously, that guilt is transfered to the child in very subtle ways. It can be a very sad situation for both parent and child.

 

[jillio]

Well, I was only shown one approach and it did work for me growing up as far as being able to communicate with hearing people and academics but one thing was forgotten: My identity..I grew up idenitifying myself as hearing and trying to meet that identity was tough. Hurted my self esteem as a child so I lost confidence in myself. That is why I believe the full toolbox is the best. It seems that many parents forget about the child's self esteem and identity. If both approaches were used, then the child can have both to identify with or choose to identify one over the other.

Very well said, shel90. I think sometimes parents concentrate so much on compensation for the deafness, and doing whatever they can do supplement language skills that they forget about the issues of self esteem and identity. I understand what you and DD are saying because in the last 20 years, I have run into many,many deaf children close to my son's age that had great oral skills, and some with even adequate signing skills to go along with it, but without exposure to Deaf adults, or culture or history, were still very isolated and unsure of themselves. A sense of belonging and of sharing the sameness of experience was missing in these children, and therefore, despite good education and communication skills, their opportunity for success was limited.

 

[deafdyke]

I find very little that is positive in your posts and even less of a tolerance towards those who have chosen a different path then the one you endorse. Yes, it sounds "nice" to say that you endorse the "toolbox" approach but even that does not work best for everychild and if it turns out that one approach works very well for a child, who are you, or anyone of us for that matter, to "attack" the parents?

Rick,that is VERY easy. I am 100% OK with oral-only as a choice, IF the CHILD choses it. I've heard of cases where kids were introduced to both Sign and Oral options, and chose BY THEMSELVES that they didn't want to sign.
I think that kids have the right to be bilingal. I just think that in a lto of the cases where oral only is chosen by the parents, it just really does a number on the kid's self esteem......and trust me, that can be awful. You've obviously NEVER experianced being made fun of b/c of your voice, you've obviously never been yelled at b/c you're talking too loud, and you can't hear yourself.....you've probaly never experianced stuff like not "getting" what someone says, or repeating yourself endlessly and then finally the hearing person saying "never mind"
Oral onliests tend to really downplay the downsides of oral only. That's all....I just think that most hearing parents don't adquatly understand the downsides. And you know what? I know a TON of older "oral only" dhh kids.....their parents now look back and say they should have learned Sign, instead of obessing about spoken language.

 

[shel90]

Rick,that is VERY easy. I am 100% OK with oral-only as a choice, IF the CHILD choses it. I've heard of cases where kids were introduced to both Sign and Oral options, and chose BY THEMSELVES that they didn't want to sign.
I think that kids have the right to be bilingal. I just think that in a lto of the cases where oral only is chosen by the parents, it just really does a number on the kid's self esteem......and trust me, that can be awful. You've obviously NEVER experianced being made fun of b/c of your voice, you've obviously never been yelled at b/c you're talking too loud, and you can't hear yourself.....you've probaly never experianced stuff like not "getting" what someone says, or repeating yourself endlessly and then finally the hearing person saying "never mind"
Oral onliests tend to really downplay the downsides of oral only. That's all....I just think that most hearing parents don't adquatly understand the downsides. And you know what? I know a TON of older "oral only" dhh kids.....their parents now look back and say they should have learned Sign, instead of obessing about spoken language.

VERY well said!!!

 

[rick48]

Very well said, shel90. I think sometimes parents concentrate so much on compensation for the deafness, and doing whatever they can do supplement language skills that they forget about the issues of self esteem and identity. I understand what you and DD are saying because in the last 20 years, I have run into many,many deaf children close to my son's age that had great oral skills, and some with even adequate signing skills to go along with it, but without exposure to Deaf adults, or culture or history, were still very isolated and unsure of themselves. A sense of belonging and of sharing the sameness of experience was missing in these children, and therefore, despite good education and communication skills, their opportunity for success was limited.

jillio,

From reading your posts, it appears that we both have children who are sophomores in college and probably around 20 years old. I will tell you however, that your perspective and experiences are 180 degrees different from mine.

From the time my daughter was diagnosed deaf we have always been involved with the deaf community and deaf adults. We were active in both the old CICI and AGB and live in the metro NYC area. I too have met many, many deaf kids and my daughter's circle of friends and acquaintances includes numerous deaf kids. They are for the most part kids who have been implanted and have been raised either orally only or with oral as the primary tool in the box, to borrow someone else's phrase. They have a broad range of oral skills.

Unlike the kids you seem to have met, they seem to be very well adjusted and happy kids who were active in their high schools and who went onto college. They talk to each other constantly online, meet during sememster breaks and in the summer. I do not profess to know everything about each and everyone so, while I am certain that at times they probably experienced isolation and uncertainty about themselves as that appears to be a pretty typical teenage experience, it does not appear to have been a controlling factor in thier lives. They have jobs, shop, drive cars, shop, go to concerts, shop, go out to eat more oftent they we do, shop and hang out. Did I mention that they like to shop?

I have no idea who amongst them will be successful nor do I think I am qualified to make that determination but it appears that socially and educationally they lack nothing that would stand in the way of their future success.
Rick

 

[rick48]

I just think that in a lto of the cases where oral only is chosen by the parents, it just really does a number on the kid's self esteem......and trust me, that can be awful. You've obviously NEVER experianced being made fun of b/c of your voice, you've obviously never been yelled at b/c you're talking too loud, and you can't hear yourself.....you've probaly never experianced stuff like not "getting" what someone says, or repeating yourself endlessly and then finally the hearing person saying "never mind"
Oral onliests tend to really downplay the downsides of oral only. That's all.

DD,

I just do not agree with you on the self-esteem issue, as I have stated in the above post, it is not something that I have seen from my experiences.

No, I never experienced that form of teasing while in HS but, I am not so certain how knowing sign would have made that experience any different. It seems the issue you had is more with the kids and the school and they seem to be the type of kids who seem to find any reason to tease someone. In my daughter's case, there was only one instance when someone made fun of her because she was deaf and interrestingly it was the other students who immediately stepped in and told the kid to knock it off and that was the end of it.

I agee that oral onlies downplay the downsides but they are not alone, the sign onlies or the TCer's or the Cued speechers are guilty of the same behavior.

Of the parents that I know who raised their children orally, myself included, not a one regrets their decision or wishes they could have changed it.
Rick

 

[shel90]

jillio,

From reading your posts, it appears that we both have children who are sophomores in college and probably around 20 years old. I will tell you however, that your perspective and experiences are 180 degrees different from mine.

From the time my daughter was diagnosed deaf we have always been involved with the deaf community and deaf adults. We were active in both the old CICI and AGB and live in the metro NYC area. I too have met many, many deaf kids and my daughter's circle of friends and acquaintances includes numerous deaf kids. They are for the most part kids who have been implanted and have been raised either orally only or with oral as the primary tool in the box, to borrow someone else's phrase. They have a broad range of oral skills.

Unlike the kids you seem to have met, they seem to be very well adjusted and happy kids who were active in their high schools and who went onto college. They talk to each other constantly online, meet during sememster breaks and in the summer. I do not profess to know everything about each and everyone so, while I am certain that at times they probably experienced isolation and uncertainty about themselves as that appears to be a pretty typical teenage experience, it does not appear to have been a controlling factor in thier lives. They have jobs, shop, drive cars, shop, go to concerts, shop, go out to eat more oftent they we do, shop and hang out. Did I mention that they like to shop?

I have no idea who amongst them will be successful nor do I think I am qualified to make that determination but it appears that socially and educationally they lack nothing that would stand in the way of their future success.
Rick

Then your daughter was VERY lucky to be mainstreamed with other kids. I was mainstreamed as the only deaf child in my whole school until high school then it was just me and my best friend out of the 2,500 plus students at my high school. That can be very isolating for us. My best friend has anger and self esteem issues from being isolated at her elementary school growing up. She is just like me..can communicate with hearing people and done well with her academics but again, her identity and self-esteem have been a major issue too.

Also, u mentioned that u were involved in the deaf community and with deaf adults. I wasnt at all so I think that was the difference. I grew up thinking I cant do this or that cuz of so many hearing people telling me that. There was one time when one of my teachers asked some students to help her with hanging some things from the ceiling in the classroom. I remembered raising my hand wanting to help out and my teacher told met that it wouldnt be safe for me cuz I couldnt hear. That was just one example of many. . Your daughter was very very lucky she had that support group.

Did your daughter and her friends learn sign language?