Only a Quarter of Parents to Deaf Kids Know Sign Language

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deafgal001 said:
GrendelQ said:
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I've heard 20 months full immersion in a language is the fastest route to fluency. So, I'm trying to figure out how one or two working parents and siblings of a new baby are going to find that intensive learning environment and achieve fluency in 2-3 years. I'm amazed you have access to a class that can provide that in one year.

Where / what's the class you have access to?
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There's youtube, skype, clubs, etc.
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Is there anyone on this forum who agrees that parents ought to be able to achieve ASL fluency in a year or two and can lay out a realistic roadmap to achieving this? How does a working parent construct 20 months of ASL immersion?

I'm aware that the Internet and books exist- I'm looking for specifics: an actual language program at your local college, specific YT playlists, etc.

If I asked someone who was evangelizing how important it is for me to learn Mandarin for a guide, I'd expect him or her to describe any number if Programs available, software, colleges with fast track immersion courses, etc. -- not to say: try Skype, YouTube. I think that's really undervaluing the language to point parents of deaf kids to pick it up on YouTube.
 
GrendelQ said:
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Is there anyone on this forum who agrees that parents ought to be able to achieve ASL fluency in a year or two and can lay out a realistic roadmap to achieving this? How does a working parent construct 20 months of ASL immersion?

I'm aware that the Internet and books exist- I'm looking for specifics: an actual language program at your local college, specific YT playlists, etc.

If I asked someone who was evangelizing how important it is for me to learn Mandarin for a guide, I'd expect him or her to describe any number if Programs available, software, colleges with fast track immersion courses, etc. -- not to say: try Skype, YouTube. I think that's really undervaluing the language to point parents of deaf kids to pick it up on YouTube.
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it's a tool to practice with it.
 
beside, I don't know why you need 20 months of fluency anyway. Even if you did use your native language, It still just as much time for your deaf child to pick up a language as it is for a parent to learn ASL, Even with CI (assuming he wasn't born hearing)... he has to develop listening skills first. So it take time no matter what path you choose.

I do know that the more the parent slack, the harder it gets because they are not getting any younger themselves. They need to be serious about it if they choose to include ASL for their child.
 
GrendelQ said:
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Is there anyone on this forum who agrees that parents ought to be able to achieve ASL fluency in a year or two and can lay out a realistic roadmap to achieving this? How does a working parent construct 20 months of ASL immersion?

I'm aware that the Internet and books exist- I'm looking for specifics: an actual language program at your local college, specific YT playlists, etc.

If I asked someone who was evangelizing how important it is for me to learn Mandarin for a guide, I'd expect him or her to describe any number if Programs available, software, colleges with fast track immersion courses, etc. -- not to say: try Skype, YouTube. I think that's really undervaluing the language to point parents of deaf kids to pick it up on YouTube.
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I already answered.

Plus: I honestly don't think the parent don't need fluency in ASL for the child to be fluent. The child will pick up on SO FAST. Most of the times the child will be too fast on picking up on these languages that the parent will have a hard time catching up. IE: Adamsmomma is giving out great examples...

And also I have said this before, I grew up teaching my mom. It wasn't a chore.
 
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My mom does not sign very well and my dad signs very very little...but I sign normally and do just fine, thanks to school education. :)
 
posts from hell said:
I already answered.

Plus: I honestly don't think the parent don't need fluency in ASL for the child to be fluent. The child will pick up on SO FAST. Most of the times the child will be too fast on picking up on these languages that the parent will have a hard time catching up. IE: Adamsmomma is giving out great examples...

And also I have said this before, I grew up teaching my mom. It wasn't a chore.
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Same here. My parents still taught me a lot about other things that I still feel that i was under my parents roof for many years. I do not feel like teaching my parents at all. I appreciate my time to show my parents how to sign whatever they wanted to know. My mom isn't a fluently ASL user but we still manage to talk to each other even we argued (long time ago lol) as we understand each other fine. I agree with PFH that it was not a chore for me with my family. nope.
 
I'm starting to think... the ASL fluency thing is starting to be an "excuse" to get out of using ASL and implanting child so the parents can have an easier time to communicate with their child.. Quite selfish on the parents part if that were the case, I say.

The reason I am actually saying this is: LOOK AT THIS THREAD... The only ones that are preaching ASL Fluency are the ...................
*insert critical thinking skills here*
 
and yet, PFH, they ARE the same parents who did use ASL with their child. I don't understand it either.

for some reasons, many oral deaf find time and place to learn ASL, and quickly too, and they are parents and have job themselves.
 
I'm inclined to agree that there are a lot of excuses being made here, as well as some very valid points from many posters here.

We've offered examples of where to find resources. Now it's your turn to do some research. The internet is out there. Why poo-pooh Skype or YouTube because it's not specific enough? What one person may have really liked on YouTube for signing, another parent might not. You look on YouTube for yourself and determine what feels helpful.

Everyone has different comfort levels and aptitude. I know of those who struggle very hard to learn. And I know of others for whom learning sign language is a piece of cake. It is not our job to dictate to you exactly what you must do to learn. Only you can decide that for yourself. Look on Craigslist for tutors. Check out your community college. Really, use your imagination.

So, us not holding your hand or finding you a mentor makes us wishy-washy or that we've failed? Nice job.
 
I feel the excuses are probably used by the medical community and others to make sure the parents implant their children or not send them to programs that use ASL and they are..

The parents will never achieve fluency in ASL

The child will never develop spoken English

The programs don't allow spoken English to aid the CIs

ASL grammar is too different from English

The child will never communicate with the majority of the population

And many more

BUT

Many of use have proven these myths wrong.

That is why I think the real issue here is...

Make the deaf child as hearing as they can and ignore their deafness.

Iam seeing one excuse after another here why not to use ASL. It is really sad because ASL has really enchanced many of our lives and we cherish it with a passion.
 
The only people I see making excuses are those who are saying that their parents didn't become fluent, but that OK with them.

I think that's sad. Yes, you did fine even though your parents couldn't discuss complex issues with you, even though you worked around communication barriers, even though your school became your primary source of learning. But I'm also seeing so many of you complaining that people didn't or don't learn ASL. If it's no big deal, then why do you care if the people around you don't use your primary language?

But I think it's a very big deal. I think it's absolutely necessary that I am fluent in my child's language. That I can communicate at a far higher level than she in these early years, stretching her abilities, building her vocabulary at home. She'll learn some basic facts and socialization in prek, but I don't think that she'll learn to communicate, to read, to write, or how to learn in general, or discuss her feelings, her impressions, her hopes and fears with others the way she will with me. If we wake up together and she wants to relate her dreams, I want the language to walk through them, to assuage fears and build on great ideas. I want to be able to communicate literature to her, without dumbing it down to the basic vocabulary I get in ASL 1, 2 3... . Because I don't have PFH for a teacher, I recognize that my level of ASL is rudimentary, primitive, if it were English, I'd be considered very ignorant. A parent should teach a child so much, schools are no substitute for that until specialization: until college.

You are the guardians of the language, apparently, and you continuously tell us parents that we need to be paying attention to you, to your guidance, so stop providing excuses for the people around you who didn't learn ASL and start providing the means for families of deaf children to learn the language.
 
GrendelQ, I've learned a lot of ASL in 8 months. I'm doing really well at the ASL socials. I'm going deaf so I'm really motivated. It's a matter of priorities and discipline. It's probably easier to learn with a child because you can learn as the child learns. I just immersed myself. Some of my deaf friends still laugh at how clueless I was when I showed up. lol

HHIssues,don't make it a "us" versus "them" debate. It's fine if you don't identify with the deaf community, but don't put the deaf community down on this forum.
 
AlleyCat said:
It is not our job to dictate to you exactly what you must do to learn. .
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Yes it is. If you take it upon yourself to tell us we SHOULD be fluent, then you ought to walk the talk and explain just how that's supposed to happen.

The challenge here is that if you actually looked into it, I think you'd find that it's not quite as accessible a route as you seem to think. And if I were evangelizing a language as you are, I'd be lobbying for making that language accessible, rather than making empty declaration that the language is out there in the ether, just waiting to jump in our heads.

My daughter is in a bi-bi learning environment and we're committed to a bilingual education. But I've got to say that those evangelizing an auditory - verbal approach actually provide a roadmap and the tools and resources with which to make for a successful outcome, and proof of success. Bilingual education is backed up only by a bunch of passionate people without any data, plans, or any power to make certain there's a means by which my daughter can continue this route throughout the years. I'm not feeling very confident about the approach I'm taking or about recommending it to others if I can't even get one of you to point to what seems like a simple first step: developing fluency in a common family language.
 
sallylou said:
GrendelQ, I've learned a lot of ASL in 8 months. I'm doing really well at the ASL socials. I'm going deaf so I'm really motivated. It's a matter of priorities and discipline. It's probably easier to learn with a child because you can learn as the child learns. I just immersed myself. Some of my deaf friends still laugh at how clueless I was when I showed up. lol

HHIssues,don't make it a "us" versus "them" debate. It's fine if you don't identify with the deaf community, but don't put the deaf community down on this forum.
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SallyLou, thank you! What you've given as an example is exactly what I'm looking for: real and specific steps that could be added to a toolkit for parents who want to learn. I'd love to read: "I attended 4 classes at X community college over 2 years and achieved conversational ability, it took me X years to be truly fluent, with the help of XXX.
 
I am happy to teach someone ASL only if they show the same respect to it as they do with spoken English. If not, I won't waste my time.
I have mentored some hearing families with deaf children before and I am mentoring one right now. My son's deaf friend. Her parents are so motivated to learn and because of that and their daughter being in a bibi program, she is scoring 2 grade levels above her age appropriate level in concepts.

My brother and I did lag behind due to not our parents not being able to fully communicate with us but my behavior and modeling, they showed us morals. As we got older and were able to write, communication got better.

Yes, I wished they learned ASL and I am sure both of us would probably have had higher congnitive skills if they had especially me because I did not have full access to my environment both at home and at school.

My brother did at school so at least that counts for something.

I would rather pick having full access at school than having no access to both at home and at school. Having full access to both would have be sooooo freaking awesome but too late for us.

That's why I want for these deaf children. Give them BOTH..not just ASL only, not just oralism only.

Again..why complicate everything? *scratching my head*
 
GrendelQ said:
Yes it is. If you take it upon yourself to tell us we SHOULD be fluent, then you ought to walk the talk and explain just how that's supposed to happen.

The challenge here is that if you actually looked into it, I think you'd find that it's not quite as accessible a route as you seem to think. And if I were evangelizing a language as you are, I'd be lobbying for making that language accessible, rather than making empty declaration that the language is out there in the ether, just waiting to jump in our heads.

My daughter is in a bi-bi learning environment and we're committed to a bilingual education. But I've got to say that those evangelizing an auditory - verbal approach actually provide a roadmap and the tools and resources with which to make for a successful outcome, and proof of success. Bilingual education is backed up only by a bunch of passionate people without any data, plans, or any power to make certain there's a means by which my daughter can continue this route throughout the years. I'm not feeling very confident about the approach I'm taking or about recommending it to others if I can't even get one of you to point to what seems like a simple first step: developing fluency in a common family language.
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yes, it is very passionate. It never was about test scores . Nor should Spanish, French, etc. be about test scores either when one is debating if their child should learn it or not.
 
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shel90 said:
I am happy to teach someone ASL only if they show the same respect to it as they do with spoken English. If not, I won't waste my time.
I have mentored some hearing families with deaf children before and I am mentoring one right now. My son's deaf friend. Her parents are so motivated to learn and because of that and their daughter being in a bibi program, she is scoring 2 grade levels above her age appropriate level in concepts.

My brother and I did lag behind due to not our parents not being able to fully communicate with us but my behavior and modeling, they showed us morals. As we got older and were able to write, communication got better.

Yes, I wished they learned ASL and I am sure both of us would probably have had higher congnitive skills if they had especially me because I did not have full access to my environment both at home and at school.

My brother did at school so at least that counts for something.

I would rather pick having full access at school than having no access to both at home and at school. Having full access to both would have be sooooo freaking awesome but too late for us.

That's why I want for these deaf children. Give them BOTH..not just ASL only, not just oralism only.

Again..why complicate everything? *scratching my head*
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Shel, your friend's story is wonderful--can you pick their brains a bit to find out how they went about learning ASL and getting to where they are? I'm seeing so many discouraging stories of ASL users here whose families can't or won't sign I'm seriously losing faith that it's possible except in rare cases.
 
QrendelQ, I'm fortunate to live in an urban area near a church deaf center. Not everyone is so lucky. Practicing online helps when no one is readily available in real life.

Some of the state deaf schools offer a kind of ASL boot-camp for parents in the summer. I'm sure that there are other immersion ASL programs. Again, people must be fortunate enough to be in a position to take time off and travel if this option isn't available locally. Family support systems are very important.

If there are no resources available where I lived, I would consider moving. We did move once to get a more appropriate school for my child (not hearing-related) and that worked out well. I would like to relocate to a better place in the future. For now, I'm stuck where I am until the kids get older.
 
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deafgal001 said:
GrendelQ said:
Yes it is. If you take it upon yourself to tell us we SHOULD be fluent, then you ought to walk the talk and explain just how that's supposed to happen.

The challenge here is that if you actually looked into it, I think you'd find that it's not quite as accessible a route as you seem to think. And if I were evangelizing a language as you are, I'd be lobbying for making that language accessible, rather than making empty declaration that the language is out there in the ether, just waiting to jump in our heads.

My daughter is in a bi-bi learning environment and we're committed to a bilingual education. But I've got to say that those evangelizing an auditory - verbal approach actually provide a roadmap and the tools and resources with which to make for a successful outcome, and proof of success. Bilingual education is backed up only by a bunch of passionate people without any data, plans, or any power to make certain there's a means by which my daughter can continue this route throughout the years. I'm not feeling very confident about the approach I'm taking or about recommending it to others if I can't even get one of you to point to what seems like a simple first step: developing fluency in a common family language.
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yes, it is very passionate. It never was about test scores . Nor should Spanish, French, etc. be about test scores either when one is debating if their child should learn it or not.
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Not about test scores. Just tell me what steps you took to become fluent. And how your family became fluent.
 
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