Octuplets' grandmother faces foreclosure threat

[LuciaDisturbed]

Yes, it is really sad. Also all the negative views and death threats are equally sad.

When I talked about having child abusers steralized some people got offended. But it's ok for people to talk about Nadya Sulman being steralized. (Not that I'm disagreeing in this case because of her compulsion for creating babies). I just find it curious that people show more compassion for child abusers then they do for Nadia Sulemen. That I find very strange.

I definitely do think all child abusers should be sterilized, and Nadya also should be sterilized as well. I have no compassion for any child abusers and I do not really have compassion for Nadya either, but I do feel truly sorry for all 14 of her children and also for Nadya's grandmother as well. They have been made victims of Nadya's selfishness. I think the grandmother hadn't been able to pay the mortgage payments because she probably had to spend all her money on the older six children since Nadya has no job and is on welfare and food stamps, and I do not think the disability checks for just the older three children would be enough to pay for the children's care, clothes, etc and for the mortgage payments on the house. I think Nadya should be ordered and forced to get a 80-hours a week job at a factory (most factories pay moderately to very well - plus many factories will constantly increase your wages every 3 months if you do an excellent job and are a very good employee) to pay the mortgage for the house for the grandmother and to support her children. ALL of her paychecks should go straight to the mortgage and to the children and the grandmother. I said 80 hours a week because there are so many people/families with single income who actually do work 80 hours a week just to support their family, even just their two or three children, and to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads and pay the mortgage and most of the time that does not even include the children's future college educations, I have even seen both parents (two-income families) with children work over 60 hours a week for each parent (making a total of 120 hours a week for the couple to provide for the entire family) with NO help from the government or the state (welfare, food stamps, etc). No, I am not exaggerating, I have actually seen this. Nadya gets to sit on her ass and pop out 14 kids just to collect food stamps and collect disability payments for the older 3 kids, and does not have a job. She says she's going to college, but I would think, that if I had this many kids, I would not be in college, but I would be working instead, because money to support and feed the children is so much more important than a college education. Priorities! That is not fair. And, the grandmother should not have to do anything to support her grandchildren. She did not make the choice to get pregnant and to give birth to any of the 14 children. Therefore, she should not be responsible for the children except to love them. She only should be required to love them, but not be required to pay for them. She should have free time since she is old enough to retire. She does not get to retire and have free time because of her daughter's selfishness, and instead have to work her ass off caring for her so many grandchildren that she did NOT bring into the world. That is not fair. This bullshit should be stopped and Nadya should be sterilized. Usually I would not support mandatory sterilization for the general population, unless it is for a child abuser or child molester or anyone who harms children, but this is most definitely a rare case of where I would actually support mandatory sterilization. (I think mandatory sterilization should be on a case-by-case basis, not mandatory for the general female population. And women who are on welfare should be required to be on birth control pills of any kind, NuvaRing, or the IUD if the woman has had a child already - unless they have a medical condition or problem that will cause problems if they take birth control pills or other methods mentioned, and if so, they should be provided with a lifetime supply of free condoms. I am on the pill and also use condoms in case the pill is not effective enough - BC are not 100% effective, I believe they are about 99.7% effective if the pill is taken correctly, and I like to use a condom in case there is that .3% that breaks through.) I should mention again that IUDs are only for women who have had a child already - something to do with the cervix's size, I'll have to find out. There are places that will provide free condoms, also. I know many AIDS/HIV centers and GLBT centers often provide free condoms to gay males, but they will be more than happy to provide them to any woman who needs some at no charge. They often give them out at Pride Festivals around the country. I still have a crapload of condoms and lube in my medicine cabinet from when I went to Pride Festival last summer, I got a ton at no charge. They are always giving out the condoms mainly to help prevent AIDS/HIV infection, but will be more than happy to provide them at no charge to females who doesn't want to get pregnant, they will provide them to anyone for ANY reason at NO charge.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

Where will 14 children be living at home?

My opinion:

The state should place the oldest six with relatives (not foster care) who can provide for and care for them, but they most likely would have to be split up between 3 or 4 relatives or even up to six different relative families, because it would be very hard on the relatives to care for all 6 kids if they have already had their own children to start with. (I said they should be placed with relatives and not in foster care because placing them with relatives would be better for the children psychologically since some of the older 6 kids will remember who their mother is, and if they were suddenly taken from their mother and put into many foster homes, it will create more problems for the kids, and they will end up feeling abandoned. Placing them with relatives who can give them permanent homes would be so much better, and they would be so much better at providing the kids with care than a foster family would be, and the 6 siblings will be able to see each other and their mother frequently which wouldn't be as possible if placed in foster care). And then the state should also search for up to 8 adoptive families who would like 1 or 2 of the octuplets and adopt them out to the adoptive families as soon as the babies are deemed healthy enough, big enough, and stable enough to leave the hospital. An adoptive family could either adopt 1 or 2, but I think the state should try to place only 1 baby with each adoptive family due to the large medical bills that the adoptive families would incur in the future with the babies due to medical problems that will result from them being so premature and from being so small and tiny at birth. The adoptive families, of course, should be required to have health insurance and sufficient income, but health insurance will most likely only cover a percentage of the babies' medical bills, and the adoptive families would be responsible for the rest, and there is also the possible concern of the term "pre-existing medical conditions" (I'm wondering about this - I do not know very much about health insurance through a job - only one of the jobs I have had provided full health insurance) that health insurance companies like to use as a reason not to pay the medical bills. Medi-Cal could be used to pay for the rest that the insurance companies does not pick up, but it would cost a lot less than it would if all the babies were in foster care and Medi-Cal paid for EVERYTHING.

And in the meantime, I think the state should arrange for the mother to have a complete hysterectomy immediately so that she will never have the ability to create more babies ever again since she has clearly shown that she is very irresponsible in making decisions to have so many children, and especially to have such a large multiple birth with being on Med-Cal, no job, no income, and being on public assistance, dependent on her mother, and living in a 3 bedroom house that is about to be foreclosed (or foreclosured? I'm not sure of the correct way to spell it with a past tense).

Then, as soon as she recovers from the hysterectomy and is cleared to work full time, she should go work at a factory full time, even up to 80 hours a week, to pay back her mother for losing the house and for all that her mother has provided for the oldest six children, pay for the octuplets, and then the rest of her money should go to the state and federal government to pay back ALL the disability checks, all the food stamps, any of all kinds of public assistance and welfare checks, and for the hysterectomy, because she has committed FRAUD. She should pay back the government for the rest of her life, and never be allowed to keep another cent of her paycheck or ANY gift money ever again, every single cent, after her mother, the house, and ALL the children, should go to the government. She has cheated the system and milked the system, so she should not have the luxury of having ANY money at all ever again, and she should be required to live in a group home for the mentally ill or the homeless (and pay the rent for the group home - no more free rides for her!) for the rest of her life. She also needs a complete psychiatric evaluation, and she should be required to be on anti-depressants or any other psychiatric medication should the psychiatric evaluation find any diagnoses of any mental illnesses, and she should be required to go to therapy as well, and also be barred from being allowed to make important decisions (medical, legal, important papers, etc) ever again since she has clearly shown that she cannot make appropriate decisions for herself and her children. She should be provided with a caseworker who will make all kinds of important decisions for her, and she should be declared incompetent in court as well since she is clearly incompetent. She clearly has no reasoning abilities that she should have developed by the time she turned 25 but she clearly has not developed any. Also, she should lose the privilege of ever going back to college and completing her education and barred from ever working in the mental health field ever again because every single cent she earns or is given must go to the children and then the government and she clearly does not belong in the mental health field at all since she clearly cannot deal with her own issues, cannot make good decisions, and has no reasoning abilities which is clearly required when working with mentally ill people. No more student loans or financial aid or any free college education for her and also no more plastic surgeries! She has cheated the system and therefore must pay the government back. She also should be barred from receiving any kind of public assistance ever again, unless she ends up with Alzheimer's disease or any other similar disease like Alzheimer's when she gets older, and then she should be placed in a nursing home then. No other disabilities that she happens to end up with in the future will put her back on public assistance ever again since she has cheated the system and therefore should lose her right to ALL public assistance for the rest of her life. No more public assistance for this mother! ENOUGH ALREADY!

Oh, and the state of California also should stop paying for fertility treatments immediately! This is a luxury, not a necessity. Why were they paying for it? Obviously their priorities are extremely fucked up. I was extremely :jaw: when I heard that the state of California paid for the fertility treatments! I thought that the government would never cover something like this since this is considered a luxury not a necessity (it does not prevent medical problems nor does it promote better health, nor does it treat health or medical problems - being infertile does not make you ill and it does not affect your health in a negative way!)

I am sorry if all this is too harsh, but too bad. She made very selfish decisions, and she has shown that she has no ability to make any appropriate decisions and shown that she has no reasoning abilities that she would need in order to make appropriate medical decisions regarding her pregnancies and her octuplets as well as the first older six children, and regarding money and all kinds of priorities. She cannot even make appropriate priorities. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

I am sure she's getting help. The media has taken over putting her on the spot light regarding all her dilemmas, her kids and now, the house in foreclosure. I agree, there was poor decisions on her part. I don't see the children going into the hands of adoption or welfare, it would just create more issues where money is concerned. If these babies and the other six children were to enter the system of foster care, it takes money to support them. The large amounts money would be distributed to the foster care parents to care for the well being of the children. I just think she's better off keeping them its her responsiblity to care for the well being of ALL the children. I have seen Dr. Phil shows recently about Nayda Suleman and her story.

If Nayda keeps all 14 children, how the hell is she going to pay all their medical bills, pay for the groceries, pay for all the clothes, pay for the diapers and the baby food, and food for the older six children, pay all the utility bills, pay the rent or the mortgage, etc etc etc? It is impossible to support all 14 kids on your own on a 40-hour-a-week job on your own with no one to help you. She clearly has showed she could not even provide for the older six children, so I really do not see how she can even provide for the babies as well. Children are VERY VERY VERY expensive. She would have to hold either two full time jobs or work a 80 hour a week job that pays more than $10 an hour or even $15 or more an hour, I don't even know how much it would take in order to provide all 14 kids with the basic necessities as well as the bills and the food and the house/apartment, since I suck at math and I do not have children so I really do not have a precise idea of how much a single child costs, but I do know that the cost of living in California is so much more expensive than it is in Texas or Wisconsin or Minnesota or Colorado or Montana or even Florida which I have lived in. I have see the rental ads for California and am at how much the rent is in California and I would think the mortgage each month would be more than what the rent would be, plus I know the groceries there is so much more than here, because I know they give twice or even three times as much food stamps per person in California compared to here, and the gas there is just so expensive, and you would have to think about so many other things. With all those things that I have considered, I just do not see how the hell this woman can provide for all 14 children on her own even with a full time job. It's just impossible. And getting help? Forget it. She doesn't deserve donations from other people because she was looking to milk people and the system for all she can get. Her motive were different than the other families who has had multiple births but also have incomes and their own health insurance and are able to provide for all their children as well as make appropriate medical decisions. Compare her and the other families, and the differences are as obvious as day and night.

The older six children are better off with relatives, and the eight babies should be adopted out to 8 different adoptive families that can provide for each baby on their own. And then Nayda should be placed in a group home for the rest of her life. And Nayda's mother should be allowed to keep her house and retire and not have to work, because she has done so much for her selfish daughter and for her older six grandchildren, she has put so much money into caring for the children, and now she is about to lose her house because of her daughter's selfish behavior since all her money has had to go towards the children so she was not able to pay the mortgage. I think that if Nayda has been evicted from the house, and once Nayda has paid back all the money and pay off the mortgage, her mother would have been able to keep the house. I feel so sorry for Nayda's mother.

If you truly think that Nayda can care and provide for all 14 kids without any kind of public assistance and any kind of help, I dare you to go out there and try to take care of all those 14 kids on your own with no kind of help except the paychecks from your full time job along with health insurance benefits from your job. Once you have tried your hand at this, I am sure you would have a completely different opinion than the one you have now.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

Yesterday on Dr Phil's show, she was filmed by another independent show "Radar Online" and caught laughing/smirking about the foreclosure situation.

She made the statement that the house was not hers, her mothers's.

She also stated that she needed to get a better and bigger house for her family.

Get this, Dr Phil has already donated 12 car seats and 3 booster seats.

Dr Phil also had Nadya's Suleman's PR representative on the show, today Nadya Suleman's father will be on the Oprah show. He is not paid for this.

"You know what? She needs help. I say to everybody now _ people _ we do need help," Doud said. "Do not punish my daughter for what she had done and do not punish the babies, because they were given by God."

In response to a question about whether he thinks his daughter is mentally stable, Doud said, "Now I'm no psychiatrist, but I question her mental situation."

source

Radar Online did not pay Nadya Suleman's mother anything for her statements. Nadya Suleman's mother released statements that she was tired of watching the 6 children and did not want to care for the 8 other children.

With the foreclosure looming in, why hasn't the DCFS not stepped in yet?

It is in plain sight that Nadya Suleman has already been abusing her children by plain starving them emotionally, pyschologically and physically the loving support they all need from a mother.

Radar Online has not had access into the home however Nadya Suleman states she doesn't know what is going on with the media as she has no television and no internet in her home.

I find this whole thing very baffling because she is going for her Ph.D in pyschology and no internet access in her home?

Is she truly milking the system for all its worth?

A California-based nonprofit called Angels in Waiting has offered Suleman round-the-clock care and a place to stay with her 14 children. It would cost about $135,000 a month to provide the 12 caretakers necessary for the children, money that would have to come from public donations, founder Linda West Conforti said in Los Angeles.

The piece de resistance is this video you can find in this link.. she leaves the kids unattended when she runs in and out of the house from the van to the house. The videocamera records this all! Where is DCFS?

You don't leave your kids unattended - 6 of them and imagine adding 8 babies.

I really question this. video link

 

[Maria]

Well, I think she should wait not to bear another 8 babies until she is financially stable. Maybe, when her first 6 children are a little bit older to take care of themselves and, then the mother can start to have another 8 babies. There's always have time - IMO.

I don't agree to some of you, the posters about the mother who should get a sterlization or hysterectomy. It's none of people's business since it is her own body. She can do what ever she wants to do with her body, this is her decision.

Some of you also said that people have no business to tell a woman what to do with her body if, she decides to have an abortion if, there's a problem involved in her situation that may be causin' a difficult. Soo......

 

[Kateweb]

that woman sould be in jail for abuse and her kids given a god home, the gradmother should nt have to syffer because of her kid. now on to the debt, most of it is part of a ballon payment, also she has been unable as of yet to evict the wannabe jolie all in all a sad story.

 

[dreama]

Some of you also said that people have no business to tell a woman what to do with her body if, she decides to have an abortion if, there's a problem involved in her situation that may be causin' a difficult. Soo......[/COLOR]

That's a good point.

Do you mean she should have waited for the 6 to grow a bit before getting another baby, or she can have another set of octoplets later on?

I think people are being really mean to this woman, but I also think she should have been given councilling NOT help in producing extra babies in her situation.

 

[dreama]

that woman sould be in jail for abuse and her kids given a god home, the gradmother should nt have to syffer because of her kid. now on to the debt, most of it is part of a ballon payment, also she has been unable as of yet to evict the wannabe jolie all in all a sad story.

Do you think all other woman who had 6 embryo's implanted in them should be in jail too?

Yes she did make a mistake but she's paying for it. I hope she gets help raising her kid. She did keep them in as long as she could in order to give them a better future so she's not as bad as some people are trying to portray her to be.

I just think she has an obsession with babies that she should have more help to deal with.

It's the doctor who should be the villian of the peice since he's also implanted other women with lots of fetuses too. The only differance is the fact in the other cases not all the eggs took. We don't even know how often this happens because the news only enlightens us about babies born live. Not still births or aborted multiples.

 

[jillio]

Well, I think she should wait not to bear another 8 babies until she is financially stable. Maybe, when her first 6 children are a little bit older to take care of themselves and, then the mother can start to have another 8 babies. There's always have time - IMO.

I don't agree to some of you, the posters about the mother who should get a sterlization or hysterectomy. It's none of people's business since it is her own body. She can do what ever she wants to do with her body, this is her decision.
Some of you also said that people have no business to tell a woman what to do with her body if, she decides to have an abortion if, there's a problem involved in her situation that may be causin' a difficult. Soo......

This coming from someone who is anti-choice?

 

[dreama]

1. Abortion is not the topic of this thread. If you want to talk about abortion I suggest you make a new thread.

2. Maria isn't anti choice and neither am I. We are against abortion.

3. I think that Maria was making the point that people talk about pro choice etc etc... but where there is any choices outside killing babies, then the same people become very anti choice. It's a good point, although I'd limit the choice to produce too many babies like Nadya, but only because it leads to so many deaths of the unlucky babies that get killed in 'selective reduction' or miscariage.

 

[Byrdie714]

I don't agree to some of you, the posters about the mother who should get a sterlization or hysterectomy. It's none of people's business since it is her own body. She can do what ever she wants to do with her body, this is her decision.

That's a good point.

1. Abortion is not the topic of this thread. If you want to talk about abortion I suggest you make a new thread.

2. Maria isn't anti choice and neither am I. We are against abortion.

3. I think that Maria was making the point that people talk about pro choice etc etc... but where there is any choices outside killing babies, then the same people become very anti choice. It's a good point, although I'd limit the choice to produce too many babies like Nadya, but only because it leads to so many deaths of the unlucky babies that get killed in 'selective reduction' or miscariage.

How can you be against it when you agree with Maria to begin with? Sounds like someone is talking in circles.......

 

[jillio]

1. Abortion is not the topic of this thread. If you want to talk about abortion I suggest you make a new thread.

2. Maria isn't anti choice and neither am I. We are against abortion.

3. I think that Maria was making the point that people talk about pro choice etc etc... but where there is any choices outside killing babies, then the same people become very anti choice. It's a good point, although I'd limit the choice to produce too many babies like Nadya, but only because it leads to so many deaths of the unlucky babies that get killed in 'selective reduction' or miscariage.

Excuse me, dreama, but my response was to Maria stating the same words regarding this situation as others have responded to her in another situation. You are the one that continues to use the term "abortion" in regard to my replies.

I fully understand where the point that both of you are attempting to make. Just saying that the point you are trying to make is contradictory to other points you have attempted to make. You continually waffle on your position, which just indicates that you either have not thought it through all the way, or selectively apply your ethical standards at your own whim. Either way, courage of the conviction doesn't apply.

If anything, this story is a perfect illustration of the fact that those who become pregnant are not always capable of becoming responsible and proper parents.

 

[jillio]

What the Duggars have to say about the octomom, and the major differences between them:


(CNN) -- Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar of Springdale, Arkansas, are the parents of 18 children, and their family is the focus of a TLC network reality series.


Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar say they are grateful for their 18 children, and may have more.

Joy Behar, guest host Thursday night on "Larry King Live," asked the Duggars how they are able to stay debt free with such a large family and what they thought of Nadya Suleman, the single mother who recently gave birth to octuplets after having fertility treatments.

Following is a transcript of their conversation.

Joy Behar: Let me ask you something. What is your reaction to this octomom? Nadya Suleman, the story. What do you think about that?

Michelle Duggar: Well, I just know from my own heart, I can't judge and look at her and judge her situation. I just know from my heart, and personally God changed our heart about children years ago. And so we've kind of gone about it the old-fashioned way. And so we are enjoying each one of the blessings that God has given us, and we're thankful for each one of them.

Behar: Right, at least you guys enjoyed having the babies, you went through the sex then the giving birth. This woman didn't have any of that, except the giving birth, which must have been rough, don't you think?

Michelle Duggar: Oh, my, I can't imagine. I had twins, but I have -- I just can't imagine having eight at once and the responsibility that that brings.

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People.com: Octuplet mom's home in default
Behar: Why do you suppose this woman has provoked such negativity? They have a "USA Today" Gallup poll saying 70 percent of those surveyed are unsympathetic to this woman. What is going on?

Michelle Duggar: Well, you know, I feel like probably more than anything it's just the fact of the responsibility issues from their perspective, and I, you know, I imagine that's probably more of the animosity that's out there. And so -- but I do -- I just can't imagine, you know, her -- how she's going to handle that many little ones under the age of 8. That's a lot of little ones all at once.

Jim Bob Duggar: We just need to pray for her.

Behar: But you guys haven't experienced that kind of hostility for the children you have. Is that because you're married?

Michelle Duggar: I don't know. I think maybe, you know, being that God's given ours one or two at a time and we've kind of done it the old-fashioned way, I don't know. We love them, we're enjoying them, and by God's grace we're taking care of them if he gives us one more. So I just think we're grateful.

Behar: I understand that you guys are debt free. I can't even imagine how you pulled that off. ... How did you do that?

Jim Bob Duggar: Well, back about 18 years ago, we saw Jim Sammons' financial seminar on DVD, and it was life-changing. At that point, we purposed to try to get out of debt and try to stay out of debt. And our family motto is to buy used and save the difference. We shop a lot at garage sales, thrift stores.

Michelle Duggar: Auctions. We bought our industrial kitchen equipment that way, our vehicles that way, and so we really cut corners and we live very frugally.

Jim Bob Duggar: That's right, we've never bought a new vehicle. So we do live -- we try to -- we know how to stretch a dollar.

Behar: How many cars do you have?

Jim Bob Duggar: We actually have probably about, what? Seven or eight right now?

Michelle Duggar: We have a lot of drivers, which is great.

Behar: Seven or eight cars, well, that's an expensive proposition, isn't it? Do you get public assistance of any kind?

Jim Bob Duggar: No, we don't -- we've never had any public assistance. Just like our 21-passenger bus, we bought at a sealed-bid auction for $2,100, we bought an '04 Suburban at an auction for like $7,000. Instead of $40,000 on a vehicle we ...

Behar: Yeah, I got it. I see what you're doing. But you have a book deal and a TV show. That's got to help. Do you think the octomom could get a TV show like you have? That might help her a lot.

Michelle Duggar: I could not imagine having that many little ones and being busy with a show. I think for our situation, our children are a lot older and our heart is really to just share with other families, encourage them that children are a gift and enjoy them while you have them because they grow up really fast. And so ...

Behar: Well, you keep having more. But you have plenty to still enjoy. They keep coming. I don't see that you're ever going to have an empty nest syndrome. They're going to be there.

Michelle Duggar: I hope not.

Behar: You guys will never be alone.

Michelle Duggar: We look forward to grandbabies, then. That'll be fun.

Behar: You know, let me ask you one more question about her. If she did get involved in doing a reality show like you guys are doing, do you have any advice for her? What kind of show should she have? Maybe she needs a baseball team or something. What advice could you give her?

Michelle Duggar: I don't -- I really -- I don't know.

Jim Bob Duggar: Yeah, I think it's a full-time job just taking care of the children while they're young. Maybe 10 years from now when the kids are 10 years old, that might be an option. But when they're all small, I think there's a lot of needs. And so, I think, she'll have her hands full. As I know when we had seven that were 7 and under, it was a very busy time.

Behar: Are you going to have some more, Michelle?

Jim Bob Duggar: I've always left it up to Michelle.

Michelle Duggar: We'll see. We'll take it one at a time. I would love more, but we'll see if the Lord sees fit and blesses us with another one.

Behar: Do you ever say to Jim Bob, get away from me, I have a headache?

Jim Bob Duggar: Actually, I can't keep her away from me.

Behar: Oh, boy. You guys are funny. OK, thanks so much for sharing your time with us yet again. Good luck to you both.


Michelle Duggar: Thank you.

Jim Bob Duggar: Thank you, Joy.


Parents of 18 wonder how octuplet mom will cope - CNN.com

 

[Jiro]

That's a good point.

Do you mean she should have waited for the 6 to grow a bit before getting another baby, or she can have another set of octoplets later on?

I think people are being really mean to this woman, but I also think she should have been given councilling NOT help in producing extra babies in her situation.

oh my... why a sudden change in your attitude? I thought you're all about sterilization. now you care about her? the child abuser?

 

[Anneice]

Hold up your right it's not our business what she does with her body she has every right to pop those babies out BUT it becomes MY business when I as a tax payer will be the one footing the bill for all these babies because she doesn't have the means to support them herself. You know what I am all for her having as many babies as she can pop out as long as SHE WILL BE TAKING FULL FINANCEL RESPONSIBLITY FOR ALL OF THEM

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

Well, I think she should wait not to bear another 8 babies until she is financially stable. Maybe, when her first 6 children are a little bit older to take care of themselves and, then the mother can start to have another 8 babies. There's always have time - IMO.

NO. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. She clearly does not have the reasoning abilities to make appropriate decisions regarding herself and all her children. She has shown that with the first six children and then allowing the doctor to implant so many embryos into her at one time resulting in OCTUPLETS. So, NO. NO ONE with good reasoning abilities and a fully functioning brain would allow a doctor to implant so many embryos into her uterus, especially when they know all the risks involved. I know I would not want more than 2 embryos implanted into me at one time if I were to receive IVF treatments in the future (which I would pay for, of course, and with good income from a stable job and not from public assistance, and I would much prefer to conceive the babies naturally than go through the fertility treatments anyway and I hope I will never need any kind of fertility treatment anyway). That's because I have enough reasoning abilities to make appropriate decisions.

I don't agree to some of you, the posters about the mother who should get a sterlization or hysterectomy. It's none of people's business since it is her own body. She can do what ever she wants to do with her body, this is her decision.

Too bad. Since the fertility treatments were PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS and now the TAXPAYERS are now FOOTING ALL THE MEDICAL BILLS for all eight FRAGILE babies, it is now our business. Her antics are going to cost California and perhaps even the entire country millions of dollars in order to care for the babies from birth to age 18, since she clearly cannot support the eight babies financially, in addition to the older six children. Her inappropriate decisions are adding to the huge deficit we have already. This country is in debt already. She has no job, no income, no home or even an apartment of her own, no insurance from a job, etc. She has nothing. She's living with her mother and the mother may lose the house. The state is footing the medical bills for ALL of the eight babies' as well as the older six children's medical bills, as well as the food stamps and WIC possibly being expanded to cover the family of 15, disability payments for the oldest three, and possibly getting disability payments for the eight babies since it is likely they will end up with disabilities or very serious medical problems resulting from a very premature and low weight birth resulting from a very large multiple pregnancy. Her irresponsible behavior and decisions is costing the state of California millions of dollars, starting from the birth of the octuplets until the octuplets turn 18 and possibly even beyond the age of 18 depending on how serious the octuplets' medical problems are going to be over their lifetimes. So we should let her do whatever she wants, allow her to keep popping out more babies for as long as she wants? NO! I don't think so! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! We have to step in and stop this mayhem. I usually do not have issues with women having large families, but to allow a doctor to implant so many embryos fully knowing the risks? To continue having so many kids even though she clearly knows she has no way of supporting the children financially without public assistance, etc? NO! We are paying for all 14 of her children as well as for herself, so therefore it is our business now. This must stop. She must be stopped.

If this woman had a job, made appropriate medical decisions regarding herself and her children, and did not knowingly allow a doctor to implant so many embyros into her body, and carefully weighted the cons and pros of IVF treatments and the risks of a multiple birth, and was not on any kind of public assistance, and the treatments were paid for by her own insurance through a job or from out of her own pocket, or she had all her children naturally with no fertility treatments but is able to provide for the children financially with no help from public assistance, then it would not be such an issue.

I know families with even 10 kids or more where NONE of the children were conceived through IVF or any kind of fertility treatments, none of the children were from any multiple birth except twins and the rare occasional triplets, and the parents did not intentionally have multiple birth/pregnancy (meaning the multiple births occurred naturally with no IVF or any other treatments) and both parents had good income and had very good health insurance provided through their jobs, and did not depend on ANY public assistance, and the mother did not have health problems of her own to start with that resulted in disability payments like Nadya, and they don't expect to get donations from the public, and they are very thrifty with their money. They also have shown that they can make appropriate medical and financial decisions and have very good reasoning abilities, unlike Nadya. I have no major issues with those families because they are able to provide for the children with no help from the government and have double incomes and good health insurance that are provided through their full time jobs. Nadya had none of that. That's why it is such a huge issue. She made a really huge mistake that she cannot undo. And she clearly has not learned from it. She is not remorseful. She thinks that it was fine to do this. It was not fine and never will be fine. There is NO excuse for this bullshit. It was wrong. She has caused her babies to possibly have medical complications, severe medical problems throughout their lifetimes, and possible disabilities from being such low weight and such prematurity from being from such a large multiple birth. Is it fair for the babies to have severe medical problems that will last them their entire lifetime? If you think it is OK, then your reasoning abilities are clearly not very well developed. I wonder how old you are, since I have read somewhere that people completely finish developing their brains at or around the age of 25, and one of the last areas of the brain that finishes developing is the area where the reasoning abilities lies in. I think Nadya is 33 (I need to go back and review what I have read so far on Nadya) but she clearly does not have full reasoning abilities. Jillio can also correct me if I am wrong.

Some of you also said that people have no business to tell a woman what to do with her body if, she decides to have an abortion if, there's a problem involved in her situation that may be causin' a difficult. Soo......

So? Different situation. She chose to knowingly allow the doctor to implant so many embryos into her body, fully knowing all the risks involved. Then when she found out she was carrying EIGHT fetuses, she actually should have elected to have several of the fetuses aborted. She chose not to. So, she's going to have to accept the public outrage, since she made very inappropriate decisions regarding her body and her babies. Usually I am all for not telling women what to do with her body, but sometimes there ARE situations when somebody has to step in and put a stop to this kind of bullshit. If no one steps in, she may do this again. There is no guarantee that she won't do this again unless she gets a complete hysterectomy. I am normally NOT for mandatory sterilization of the general female population, but this is one case that I will most definitely demand that the court order this woman to be sterilized. Enough is enough. Sometimes we have to make exceptions and step in and stop this kind of antic.

This is not just the doctor's fault, but also Nadya's fault since she ALLOWED the doctor to implant so many embyros into her body. She ALLOWED it. Yes, the doctor violated so many kinds of medical regulations on so many levels, but it still falls on the mother to make appropriate medical decisions regarding her body and her children and her pregnancies. She should have stopped at baby #6 especially since she has already had two sets of TWINS as well as two single birth babies. But no, she kept on going, and she actually ALLOWED the doctor to implant so many embyros into her uterus. She should have said, "No, I do not want eight babies. Please implant only 2 embyros in my uterus". She okayed the doctor to implant six embyros (some people are saying eight?) which clearly is a very inappropriate decision. No one in their right mind with fully functioning brain cells and fully developed reasoning abilities would actually allow a doctor to implant 6 to 8 embyros into her uterus fully knowing the risks of all the embyros possibly making it and fully knowing the risk of a very large multiple pregnancy. So, TWO people are at fault here. The clinic is also responsible, but I do not know anything about how the other fertility doctors at the clinic practice, what their ethics are, so I can't really say anything about the other doctors, so I am just going to say that there are at least TWO people who are at fault here in this situation, Nadya and the IVF doctor. Both persons knew the risks, and both made very inappropriate decisions, and both allowed this kind of situation to happen. So, both are at fault. Plus, this doctor enabled her to do this kind of bullshit.

 

[jillio]

Hold up your right it's not our business what she does with her body she has every right to pop those babies out BUT it becomes MY business when I as a tax payer will be the one footing the bill for all these babies because she doesn't have the means to support them herself. You know what I am all for her having as many babies as she can pop out as long as SHE WILL BE TAKING FULL FINANCEL RESPONSIBLITY FOR ALL OF THEM

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

that woman sould be in jail for abuse and her kids given a god home, the gradmother should nt have to syffer because of her kid. now on to the debt, most of it is part of a ballon payment, also she has been unable as of yet to evict the wannabe jolie all in all a sad story.

Do you think all other woman who had 6 embryo's implanted in them should be in jail too?

I think Kateweb means that the woman should be in jail for welfare/public assistance abuse.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

Yes she did make a mistake but she's paying for it. I hope she gets help raising her kid. She did keep them in as long as she could in order to give them a better future so she's not as bad as some people are trying to portray her to be.

How is she paying for her mistake? She hasn't contributed one damn red cent toward any of her children out of her own pocket that did not come from welfare or public assistance or other people.

I think she is so bad for all the grossly inappropriate decisions she has made regarding her children and herself. That alone is really bad.

I just think she has an obsession with babies that she should have more help to deal with.

She clearly does not have full reasoning abilities and she is not functioning with a full brain. Therefore, she should be declared incomptent in a court of law, be court-ordered to have a complete hysterectomy, and then placed in a group home permanently and indefinitely for the rest of her life, and have the oldest six children placed with relatives who have good incomes and health insurance through their jobs so that the 6 siblings can still visit each other and their mother, and the octuplets should be adopted out to 8 different good adoptive families who have the means to provide for each baby without any public assistance or any kind of welfare. Her parental rights should be fully 100% terminated for the octuplets immediately, and she should only be allowed frequent supervised visitations with the older six children.

It's the doctor who should be the villian of the peice since he's also implanted other women with lots of fetuses too. The only differance is the fact in the other cases not all the eggs took. We don't even know how often this happens because the news only enlightens us about babies born live. Not still births or aborted multiples.

The doctor is not the only one who is the villain of this whole story. The mother is the villain too as well. She made very inappropriate medical decisions regarding IVF treatments, her pregnancies, the birth of her octuplets, and very inappropriate financial decisions regarding all of her children since she chose to have 14 children while on public assistance and no other source of income and living in a 3 bedroom house which I do not see how the hell one can fit 14 children, herself, and the grandmother in. So, there are at least TWO villains in this story. Don't try to put 100% of the blame on the doctor. The mother is to blame too as well. She knew full well of the risks of a very large multiple birth, the risks of implanting so many embryos and yet allowed so many embryos to be implanted anyway. Someone with full reasoning abilities and a fully functioning brain would say, "no, I do not want six embryos implanted in my uterus. I am afraid it will result in 6 or more babies. That is too many and too risky for me. Please only implant 2". She didn't say no. She ALLOWED all 6 embryos to be implanted, fully knowing all the risks involved. This is clearly a VERY INAPPROPRIATE medical decision.

 

[Dixie]

To put it plainly a single mom thats jobless and is living with her mother and receiving state assistance has NO buisness whatsoever in having IVF or even getting knocked up at all.

I see my own situation as that I have been laid off from my job that I had for two years, I do not have the financial means to live on my own and I do not wish to seek state assistance and I am a single parent, I have absolutely no buisness whatsoever to even consider another child at this point in time. I have a full-plate with what Ive already got, I dont need to be adding more problems to the situation by having more children.

This is what Nadya Suleman should have been thinking when she had the first one.

Her number one priority right now should be finding a job. I know the job market sucks right now, but any job is better than no job!