Obama's message to schools - text

[darkdog]

You bring up a point that I felt was the core of this message. I am somewhat curious here. To those that are Conservatives, i.e. generally against higher taxes, how do you feel about school bonding issues? That seems to be one issue where I am hard core against. In my district, there is never enough money, yet they always have top-flight athletic fields, teams, equipment. I have no children, so I am naturally on the opposing side. Do you feel more money = a better education? Is this a worthy cause for higher taxes?

It's simply not true that the problem with schools is lack of funding. There are countries who don't spend nearly as much per pupil as we do and get superior results. Washington DC spends way more than the rest of the country and it's an embarrassment. I think we need voucher programs. We had one in DC; it was cheaper per student and it worked, but congress recently killed it. There was no principled reason- the unions simply demanded it be killed because they don't want to compete with private schools who do a superior job.

 

[CJB]

What a GREAT speech!!!

OMG, the kids are being brainwashed to do well in school and take responsibility for their education. I want my daughter to become brainwashed now!

 

[darkdog]

My sister has a daughter in kindergarten and she was wary of having her watch the speech. She was creeped out by the language in the study guide suggesting the teachers have the students write letters to themselves about how they can help the president and later hold them accountable. She said if he just wants to talk about working hard and eating their vegetables or whatever, she was fine with that, but the "How can I help the president?" stuff made it look suspicious.

In the end, the speech was good, her class didn't show the video anyway because 5-year-olds don't have the attention span, and the administration screwed up putting out creepy language like that (though it later backtracked and took it out).

 

[saywhatkid]

It's simply not true that the problem with schools is lack of funding. There are countries who don't spend nearly as much per pupil as we do and get superior results. Washington DC spends way more than the rest of the country and it's an embarrassment. I think we need voucher programs. We had one in DC; it was cheaper per student and it worked, but congress recently killed it. There was no principled reason- the unions simply demanded it be killed because they don't want to compete with private schools who do a superior job.

I don't totally understand about the voucher programs, but it is not my domain. I agree with the rest of your post. Part of the problem for Washington DC is taxation without representation, which appears on the license plates. A lot of poor people live there. I recall my visit there; ugly neighborhoods. Depressing. I wanted the doors locked on the car.

 

[deafskeptic]

I don't totally understand about the voucher programs, but it is not my domain. I agree with the rest of your post. Part of the problem for Washington DC is taxation without representation, which appears on the license plates. A lot of poor people live there. I recall my visit there; ugly neighborhoods. Depressing. I wanted the doors locked on the car.

I take it the poor neighborhoods haven't changed much since my days in DC.

 

[saywhatkid]

I take it the poor neighborhoods haven't changed much since my days in DC.

Housing looks older, probably. Cars are newer models. I am a midwest boy, but had lived in Maryland for a few years. It was very awakening trip to the National Mall. Went from affluence to apathy in 10 miles. Huge houses to abandoned houses. Green lawns to blowing trash.

 

[deafskeptic]

Once I got lost and walked into one of the worst neighorhoods in DC near Kendal Green by mistake. I was alone too.

 

[saywhatkid]

Once I got lost and walked into one of the worst neighorhoods in DC near Kendal Green by mistake. I was alone too.

And you never forgot it! That is a good way to get your heart rate to go higher.

 

[deafskeptic]

And you never forgot it! That is a good way to get your heart rate to go higher.

 

[darkdog]

I don't totally understand about the voucher programs, but it is not my domain. I agree with the rest of your post. Part of the problem for Washington DC is taxation without representation, which appears on the license plates. A lot of poor people live there. I recall my visit there; ugly neighborhoods. Depressing. I wanted the doors locked on the car.

Here's how vouchers work. Say you have a kid who's stuck in a crappy school with crappy teachers who can't get fired because of the unions. If you want to pull him out of that school, you could get a voucher from the local government worth, say $7500, that you can then use for the year's tuition at a private school. If you want a school that charges higher than $7500, you pay the difference, but if you want a school that charges less than $7500, the voucher covers it all.

That's how they did it in DC, although they only gave out a limited number of vouchers through a lottery system. It was a bargain for the taxpayers since the cost for each child in the public system is over $15,000. It also delivered better education results and much greater parent satisfaction, although overall student satisfaction was about the same (not surprising, going from a situation where they're used to slacking off to suddenly having to work). Still, congress killed it when the NEA called in a favor. Here's a story that covers the whole thing pretty well: Future of the District's School Voucher Program Looking Grim - washingtonpost.com

 

[kokonut]

It's simply not true that the problem with schools is lack of funding. There are countries who don't spend nearly as much per pupil as we do and get superior results. Washington DC spends way more than the rest of the country and it's an embarrassment. I think we need voucher programs. We had one in DC; it was cheaper per student and it worked, but congress recently killed it. There was no principled reason- the unions simply demanded it be killed because they don't want to compete with private schools who do a superior job.

And Obama supported Congress' action. Those kids in DC had measurable, measurable results in their education than their peers who weren't in the voucher program.

 

[jillio]

Yeah, isn't it odd how kids will show academic gains when they finally have textbooks and computers available to allow them to compete?

 

[darkdog]

Yeah, isn't it odd how kids will show academic gains when they finally have textbooks and computers available to allow them to compete?

This was about getting kids out of failed public schools and putting them into decent private schools. This was pointedly not about lack of funding because the DC failure factories are far better funded than most schools across the country. They spend over $15,000 per child and the vouchers were worth $7,500. For less than half the cost, private schools delivered a superior education over a government monopoly. That's heresy to teacher unions, but it's the truth.

EDIT: I should add that the average amount spent for each voucher was just under $6,000, so they got superior results and actually saved over 60%.

 

[kokonut]

I don't see why anybody would be against getting kids out of failed public schools and against a voucher system to allow them the opportunity to choose the schools of their choice and improve their education. And Obama went along like a wet noodle over this one and not let this voucher system continue? Glad his daughters are getting a good education at the most exclusive and most expensive private school in the District of Columbia, the haute Sidwell Friends School. Obama should explain why his children attend private school‎ but not the kids of DC or anywhere else if they were given the choice.

 

[Beowulf]

Yeah, isn't it odd how kids will show academic gains when they finally have textbooks and computers available to allow them to compete?

Unimaginably odd, hee hee.

 

[saywhatkid]

Yeah, isn't it odd how kids will show academic gains when they finally have textbooks and computers available to allow them to compete?

While this is certainly true, my local experience is different. As soon as bond issues are passed, the athletic department gets a new ball field, new exercise room, uniforms; and the academics get very little. Area high schools seem to feel that money invested in improved athletics will be returned through ticket sales. Again, this is a middle to upper class area. Books and computers are available, but the schools choose to look elsewhere for their spending. Over 40% of state budgets are spend on K-12 education. Where does it all go???

 

[jillio]

This was about getting kids out of failed public schools and putting them into decent private schools. This was pointedly not about lack of funding because the DC failure factories are far better funded than most schools across the country. They spend over $15,000 per child and the vouchers were worth $7,500. For less than half the cost, private schools delivered a superior education over a government monopoly. That's heresy to teacher unions, but it's the truth.

EDIT: I should add that the average amount spent for each voucher was just under $6,000, so they got superior results and actually saved over 60%.

Without NCLB legislation that decides funding incorrectly, the schools would have had the funding to compete academically and a voucher program would not have been necessary.

 

[jillio]

I don't see why anybody would be against getting kids out of failed public schools and against a voucher system to allow them the opportunity to choose the schools of their choice and improve their education. And Obama went along like a wet noodle over this one and not let this voucher system continue? Glad his daughters are getting a good education at the most exclusive and most expensive private school in the District of Columbia, the haute Sidwell Friends School. Obama should explain why his children attend private school‎ but not the kids of DC or anywhere else if they were given the choice.

Equitable funding is the answer. And there are numerous reasons for the President's kids to attend a smaller, private institution. Get real, here. Like you have any concern for education.

 

[jillio]

While this is certainly true, my local experience is different. As soon as bond issues are passed, the athletic department gets a new ball field, new exercise room, uniforms; and the academics get very little. Area high schools seem to feel that money invested in improved athletics will be returned through ticket sales. Again, this is a middle to upper class area. Books and computers are available, but the schools choose to look elsewhere for their spending. Over 40% of state budgets are spend on K-12 education. Where does it all go???

I can't disagree with you there. Academics should always take precedence over non-academics when it comes to funding issues.

I was referring more to placing kids with a voucher system and then them making gains because the environment included supplies that were not available to them in the poorer districts. Thanks to NCLB that actually removes funding from the neediest areas.

 

[Reba]

This was about getting kids out of failed public schools and putting them into decent private schools. This was pointedly not about lack of funding because the DC failure factories are far better funded than most schools across the country. They spend over $15,000 per child and the vouchers were worth $7,500. For less than half the cost, private schools delivered a superior education over a government monopoly. That's heresy to teacher unions, but it's the truth.

EDIT: I should add that the average amount spent for each voucher was just under $6,000, so they got superior results and actually saved over 60%.

Exactly.