My God Daughter

faire_jour said:
I understood the message perfectly and you are being rather presumptious to think otherwise. Perhaps you don't understand me nearly as well as you think you do.

The whole point is the journey the family goes through and the struggle that the child has without language. One of the most moving, and horrible, parts of the book is when the deaf daughter gets so sick and they have no way to communicate and comfort her, and at the same time the family happens to see some Deaf adults signing and they wonder if they could help her understand.....it was so sad...
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Not presumptuous in the least. Your entire response demonstrated a superficial understanding of the book...particularly the remark about "things are different now." Not only does that statement demonstrate a superficial understanding of the book, but a superficial understanding of the plight of deaf children today, as well. If you want to be perceived in another light, perhaps you should take more care with what you type.
 
jillio said:
Not presumptuous in the least. Your entire response demonstrated a superficial understanding of the book...particularly the remark about "things are different now." Not only does that statement demonstrate a superficial understanding of the book, but a superficial understanding of the plight of deaf children today, as well. If you want to be perceived in another light, perhaps you should take more care with what you type.
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I'm sorry that you believe deaf people need saved from their miserable "plight". I believe that the majority of deaf children have parents who love and care about them and are involved in their lives and education. Just because they choose a different path than you did, doesn't mean they don't care.
 
faire_jour said:
I'm sorry that you believe deaf people need saved from their miserable "plight". I believe that the majority of deaf children have parents who love and care about them and are involved in their lives and education. Just because they choose a different path than you did, doesn't mean they don't care.
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I'm sorry that you seem to be incapable of comprehending what I believe and don't believe. This post is actually hysterical to anyone who knows me and has even a slight idea of what I believe and don't believe about the deaf. Especially to the deaf themselves.:laugh2:

Get off the noble high horse before you fall off.
 
It is about a hearing parent learning about their child's perspective, and the journey of learning to see the world from that child's deaf perspective.
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Yes. The " You must become "normal" paragraph. I won't write it out due to copyright issues...but seriously. If oral only wasn't presented as " kids can be "normal" and don't need a "speshal needs" methodology, ASL would be a hell of a lot more popular.
I gotta say I find it very ironic that the very same parents who want their kids to be oral only would jump at the chance for their kids to be bilingal. Imagine if fluency in ASL was promoted as " Your kid can be BILINGAL!" rather then " your kid needs to use a special needs methodology"
 
deafdyke said:
Yes. The " You must become "normal" paragraph. I won't write it out due to copyright issues...but seriously. If oral only wasn't presented as " kids can be "normal" and don't need a "speshal needs" methodology, ASL would be a hell of a lot more popular.
I gotta say I find it very ironic that the very same parents who want their kids to be oral only would jump at the chance for their kids to be bilingal. Imagine if fluency in ASL was promoted as " Your kid can be BILINGAL!" rather then " your kid needs to use a special needs methodology"
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:hmm: I think I feel an idea brewing!
 
deafdyke said:
Yes. The " You must become "normal" paragraph. I won't write it out due to copyright issues...but seriously. If oral only wasn't presented as " kids can be "normal" and don't need a "speshal needs" methodology, ASL would be a hell of a lot more popular.
I gotta say I find it very ironic that the very same parents who want their kids to be oral only would jump at the chance for their kids to be bilingal. Imagine if fluency in ASL was promoted as " Your kid can be BILINGAL!" rather then " your kid needs to use a special needs methodology"
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I agree. I think that ASL should be presented as another language that could help your child succeed in life (all the situations and reasons that ASL can be used and helpful) rather than "Your child WILL fail without ASL" and "It is the only natural language for deaf children" and "Children can't learn spoken language and will be severly language delayed and will never learn language without ASL" "Kids with CI's can't hear and need ASL for language acquistion" et all. They won't believe it, because they see proof everyday that hose statements are true. If ASL advocates showed how ASL could help in addition to spoken language and CI's they would get a better response.
 
What if someone say You need spoken English or you will be severely delayed? would that be true? fail without ASL, it depend on the situation. if CI didn't work out, and they didn't take precaution and learn ASL, yes, they will be delay. And social skills is a big part of their learning. If they don't have that, sadly, it is true, they will be delay in some areas.

I've read all these poems, and I can't make out the meaning of what the heck it is talking about. I blame it on my lack of social skills growing up.

It's still a language that is used by mostly deaf people. There's no shame in that.
 
A said:
What if someone say You need spoken English or you will be severely delayed? would that be true? fail without ASL, it depend on the situation. if CI didn't work out, and they didn't take precaution and learn ASL, yes, they will be delay. And social skills is a big part of their learning. If they don't have that, sadly, it is true, they will be delay in some areas.

I've read all these poems, and I can't make out the meaning of what the heck it is talking about. I blame it on my lack of social skills growing up.

It's still a language that is used by mostly deaf people. There's no shame in that.
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No, I would not say that not using spoken language would make some one "delayed". They need to be fluent in written language, and some form of communication, it doesn't have to be speaking.

I would agree that ASL is "used by mostly deaf people", but I think that the vast majority of people who have a hearing loss, in fact do not use ASL.
 
yes, mostly because 1. parent's attitute toward it 2. They are HOH and think they can hear just fine 3. They are late deafened who first language is English

It is hard to learn ASL as you older, even for some oral only deaf. I hope no parents will say speech first, ASL later.
 
faire_jour said:
I agree. I think that ASL should be presented as another language that could help your child succeed in life (all the situations and reasons that ASL can be used and helpful) rather than "Your child WILL fail without ASL" and "It is the only natural language for deaf children" and "Children can't learn spoken language and will be severly language delayed and will never learn language without ASL" "Kids with CI's can't hear and need ASL for language acquistion" et all. They won't believe it, because they see proof everyday that hose statements are true. If ASL advocates showed how ASL could help in addition to spoken language and CI's they would get a better response.
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ASL as a tool to somehow "help" deaf people is a poor and flawed understanding of ASL. It's on the verge of beeing audistic, IMO. It's actually perhaps audistic.

ASL is a language, not a special needs tool. It's more into the business of food and sex, and less a reading tool or tool to develop poster kids.

Isn't it a bit silly by you to try to educate some deaf people what they are supposed to tell some parents? Let me ask you, whatfor do I really need parents to other children for? Why should it be my problem what some parents do and think about what I say? Parents, audiologists and special education teachers have been trying to get their kids out touch with ASL for a century, and so far they have failed massive, without me lifting a finger.
 
flip said:
ASL as a tool to somehow "help" deaf people is a poor and flawed understanding of ASL. It's on the verge of beeing audistic, IMO. It's actually perhaps audistic.

ASL is a language, not a special needs tool. It's more into the business of food and sex, and less a reading tool or tool to develop poster kids.

Isn't it a bit silly by you to try to educate some deaf people what they are supposed to tell some parents? Let me ask you, whatfor do I really need parents to other children for? Why should it be my problem what some parents do and think about what I say? Parents, audiologists and special education teachers have been trying to get their kids out touch with ASL for a century, and so far they have failed massive, without me lifting a finger.
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What? I clearly said that ASL was a language and not a "tool".
 
faire_jour said:
What? I clearly said that ASL was a language and not a "tool".
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You said it, but then as you elaborated, you defined it as a special needs tool. Example: "all the situations and reasons ASL can be used and helpful" and "could help in addition to spoken language". Very audist comments. First, you implied that it is a language to be used only for special circumstances, and secondly, you placed, once again, spoken language as the number 1 priority for deaf people by placing ASL in the "addition to" category.
 
jillio said:
You said it, but then as you elaborated, you defined it as a special needs tool. Example: "all the situations and reasons ASL can be used and helpful" and "could help in addition to spoken language". Very audist comments. First, you implied that it is a language to be used only for special circumstances, and secondly, you placed, once again, spoken language as the number 1 priority for deaf people by placing ASL in the "addition to" category.
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Let's get serious. Greater than 90% of parents want spoken language to be their child's primary language, and they are making the choices that reflect that. Very few are choosing ASL as their child's first or primary language. In fact,fewer are using ASL at all. If you tell them that they are audist for wanting spoken language, or that their child will fail without ASL, they are going to be even less likely to use it.

So, do you want to be right, or do you want more parents choosing to use ASL with their children?
 
Actually, many parents were considering it until someone told them it is bad for their speech.
 
A said:
Actually, many parents were considering it until someone told them it is bad for their speech.
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Yes and they take advantage of not willing to learn how to sign, called "ASL" so they make innocent babies to learn how to speak without visual aids to fit the hearing community due to the large percent of speaking.
 
I agree. I think that ASL should be presented as another language that could help your child succeed in life (all the situations and reasons that ASL can be used and helpful) rather than "Your child WILL fail without ASL" and "It is the only natural language for deaf children" and "Children can't learn spoken language and will be severly language delayed and will never learn language without ASL" "Kids with CI's can't hear and need ASL for language acquistion" et all.
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I think you've been hanging around too much with some extreme Deafies. You speak as if it's still 1995. Many Deaf activists realize that CI kids are functionally hoh. But just b/c a kid is functionally hoh, it doesn't mean that they won't have significent speech delays or enjoy all the advantages of the hearign world. Even late deafened and ex hearing people say they don't feel a part of the hearing world.
 
deafdyke said:
I think you've been hanging around too much with some extreme Deafies. You speak as if it's still 1995. Many Deaf activists realize that CI kids are functionally hoh. But just b/c a kid is functionally hoh, it doesn't mean that they won't have significent speech delays or enjoy all the advantages of the hearign world. Even late deafened and ex hearing people say they don't feel a part of the hearing world.
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I think that the California bill, and the opposition to it, is showing, again, how many people do not support parental choice.
 
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