more interpreter issues...UGH!

[shel90]

What is that supposed to mean? I would hope parents would educate themselves about their Childs needs. Sure, some don't... But if they love their children they will get on board.

Unfortunately, that doesnt happen with the majority of the parents. I have been in the field of Deaf education for almost 15 years and less than an handful are just like you described. The rest are very ignorant about language development, deafness, interpreting laws, and etc. As a result, they interject their hearing needs to get their children's needs met which usually backfires.

 

[shel90]

There are many many like that.

Yep and for a variety of reasons.

 

[shel90]

That's an interesting point. Are you suggesting that deaf children don't deserve qualified interpreters if their parents can't really tell the difference between qualified and unqualified levels of ASL? Maybe kids also don't deserve to visit medical doctors with actual degrees if their parents don't have enough medical knowledge to determine whether or not the doctor is really qualified and have to rely on whether or not they hold a license to know if this guy happens to be a real doctor and have a certain specialt. Teachers, too: why do we insist on qualified teachers of the deaf if we really don't have the same level of expertise as those teachers and can't determine whether they truly are qualified without checking up on those degrees.

Are you serious? PFH said it was unfortunate and that it happens too often. He has stated that it makes him sick and how he had to leave his job.

Now, you are implying that PFH is saying that deaf children dont deserve qualified interpreters? I am not understanding why you would think that.

It is clear as a bell that he wants the total opposite but the system is too screwed up.

 

[shel90]

Right, that's the issue. It's also the law that kids have qualified terps, but as Jillio and PFH pointed out, that's not how it really works in real life. There are a lot of substandard terps in public ed. It's actually one of the factors that led me towards the approach we are taking. But, as Csign pointed out, parents need to stand up and make certain that law is being enforced.

Yea, in a perfect world. If you believe that, what are you doing about it to get parents in the country get the education and knowledge about the laws?

 

[shel90]

The problem is that most parents aren't informed enough to even know to question an interpreter's qualifications. They might observe a class and see the interpreter's hands moving quickly and smoothly and think, "Wow, she's really good," then they'll look at their son who is watching the interpreter attentively and occasionally nodding, and they'll think everything is fine. Little do they know that the interpreter was not using conceptually accurate signs, and because she was overwhelmed by the speed at which the teacher was talking, she was quickly summarizing and leaving out a great deal of crucial information. At the next IEP meeting, the parents praise the skill of the interpreter and then turn to the matter of trying to figure why their son just doesn't seem to be performing at the same level as his peers.

And that is what I have seen tooooooooooooo many times and some Deaf adults have tried to explain to the parents that their children's needs arent being met only to get "But my child is paying attention in class and the terp!"

The non-qualified interpreter could be just making a lot of grammatical and vocabulary errors when signing and nobody would know. Who ends up with the language deficits? The deaf child.

 

[shel90]

I strongly would NOT reccomend family to become the children's interpreters except in social situations.

 

[GrendelQ]

Csign, take note. Oh and Grendel.

Thanks for the advice, although knowing your ongoing campaign against me, I don't think anything you direct at me is done so with good intentions and everyone knows it. My daughter is currently doing OK without terps at the bi-bi school she has attended for the past 4 years where ASL is the primary language of instruction and interaction and 40% of the staff is d/Deaf. Actually, though, you might want to take note of the story coolgirlspyer90 recounts, perhaps it's more relevant.

 

[Mountain Man]

I agree with this. My interpreter that I had since middle school up until last year of spring break, she would do this when people are watching her. Everytime i go to my IEP meetings they would wonder why I'm not doing a good job at taking tests. Its mainly because the interpreter keeps missing out information that I need to know. This has happened A LOT lately. She doesn't sign much, but when somebody is watching her, she would sign to me, but only about her personal matters and making it look like it was about school. The only way i would think about this is if the ASL teacher would come and watch her sign with the special education director with her and translate to her what the interpreter was saying.

That's terrible. Interpreters like that are a disgrace to the profession. In fact, they don't even deserve the honor of being called interpreters.

 

[Mountain Man]

My daughter is currently doing OK without terps at the bi-bi school she has attended for the past 4 years where ASL is the primary language of instruction and interaction and 40% of the staff is d/Deaf.

If the primary language is ASL then of course she wouldn't need an ASL interpreter. I'm not sure why you think this is relevant.

Although I think it's interesting that you describe your daughter's performance as merely "OK". What are we to make of that?

 

[GrendelQ]

If the primary language is ASL then of course she wouldn't need an ASL interpreter. I'm not sure why you think this is relevant.

Although I think it's interesting that you describe your daughter's performance as merely "OK". What are we to make of that?

Yes, Coolgirlspyer90's story isn't relevant to my daughter's situation -- that's exactly what I was pointing out to PFH, who told me to "take note" of it.

You ask me what you are to make of my description of my daughter as "doing ok"? I didn't use the word "merely." I don't know, what does that mean to you, seems pretty straightforward to me? Since you've asked, though, I'd be glad to be more specific -- she's happy, healthy, loves school and her teachers, has a ton of friends, interacts with ease in Deaf and Hearing environments, is fluent in two languages, working on a third, is loving her competitive rhythmic gymnastics team and kung fu, piano lessons are not thrilling her as much as they once did and so we may soon swap for ballet, she's performing well above age level and blowing all assessments out of the water, both those normed for deaf kids and those designed for typical hearing kids. But I suspect if I had stated that, instead of saying "she's doing OK" you'd probably get all huffy and think I was promoting the wonders of cochlear implants or something.

 

[GrendelQ]

But there's an odd conflict here.

Hearing parents are challenged to say what they're doing to enforce the laws. Some say that too many parents sit by and allow their child to receive substandard or no services because they don't want to rock the boat or come across as troublemakers.

CSign is rocking the boat, pushing for qualified terps for deaf kids. Something I'd think would get her not just support, but a raft of ideas for how she can further this goal from people who might have experience fighting for qualified terps.

But, instead, in this thread that has such heartbreaking stories from people about how their unqualified interpreters hindered rather than helped their education, and she's inspired to make sure this doesn't happen to her child, she's being questioned by Jiro as to why she doesn't interpret for her own child in class (?) and attacked by PFH for insisting on a certified terp for her child because, as a non-native or uncertified ASL user herself, she wouldn't know the difference between a qualified terp or not, so it doesn't matter what her child gets. And told by others not to question the services even if provided by organizations such as that which that PFH described being involved with (and which he admirably left), that were knowingly providing substandard services -- simply because they have more experience than she?
Whats with that?

 

[Mountain Man]

Yes, Coolgirlspyer90's story isn't relevant to my daughter's situation -- that's exactly what I was pointing out to PFH, who told me to "take note" of it.

Say what? He's saying "take note of it" because of the incredulous tone of your earlier post.

I don't know, what does that mean to you, seems pretty straightforward to me?

The dictionary definition of "OK" is "satisfactory but not exceptionally or especially good", so when you said that your daughter was doing "OK" in school, I took that to mean that she was just getting by.

I suspect if I had stated that, instead of saying "she's doing OK" you'd probably get all huffy and think I was promoting the wonders of cochlear implants or something.

No. But by your description, I would think the phrase "My daughter is doing very well" would be more appropriate than "She's doing OK."

Also, your interpretation of what's happening in this thread is way off the mark.

 

[GrendelQ]

Say what? He's saying "take note of it" because of the incredulous tone of your earlier post.

Hmm. I was not using an incredulous tone. And that's not what he was getting at. Maybe you read a bit more into my post than meant? I was asking very directly if what you meant by this:

It's also distressingly common. Many hearing parents who have a deaf child are so desperate to make their child "normal" that they're practically in denial concerning their child's condition which compels them to make a number of unfortunate choices.

-- which leaves what those unfortunate choices are and how not taking action would result in making the child "normal" are a bit open to interpretation -- was the same as this:

Are you thinking that some parents don't fight against being assigned an uncertified interpreter because they are "desperate to make their child 'normal'"? Do you mean that they don't want to rock the boat and be seen as a troublemaker and are willing to let their child suffer with substandard services?

 

[Jazzberry]

I'm HH, raised oral, was mainstreamed and don't have children so educational interpreting is a new topic to me.

I find it distressing that apparently many d/D/HH children are getting services in name only but not in actuality. Since the parents, school administrators (in mainstream settings) and definitely the children are not in a position to evaluate educational interpreters then I think it would probably be useful to make it routine for educational interpreters to be audited on the job by other interpreters with no warning.

Of course a lot would have to be worked out. How would this be made legally required for all schools? How would this be funded? How could it be insured that the auditor does a good job and doesn't extend "professional courtesy" to their fellow interpreter? And I'm sure there would be other issues that would have to be ironed out.

As a newbie looking in, it seems to me that requiring professional on the spot surprise audits as part of the routine process is probably the only way to effectively solve this problem.

 

[coolgirlspyer90]

I'm turning 18 this friday, which means that I will become a legal adult right? And I still have an IEP, which means that I would have authority of being able to make some changes in my IEP, even if that means pushing for a certified interpreter, no FM systems, etc. And i'm going to make sure that the school listens to me, because they honestly don't know anything about the deaf culture about what we need for services, and how they think that they know everything about it. Unless they're us, they don't need to be saying : "Well you're only 18..you don't know much about this.." screw that.

 

[jillio]

In preschool-Kindergarden, I was taught English Sign Language first by my old interpreter that I had up until when i was entering elementary school. I was also attending to deaf clubs throughout my preschool-elementary years and I was also learning sign there as well. Then when I entered Horace Mann (2nd grade up to 3rd grade), They had 2 small deaf class rooms, I was starting to learn ASL including when I was attending St.Rita's school for the deaf for about 1 semester in the 4th grade and moved back to Centerville city schools. I'm pretty fluent in ESL and ASL. When I entered high school, I know the ASL teacher and She was upset about how I was taught ESL first and not ASL. I guess its based on communication problems? I don't know! :/

I think that you mean MCE. ESL is English as Second Language. MCE is Manually Communicated English.

 

[jillio]

I'm turning 18 this friday, which means that I will become a legal adult right? And I still have an IEP, which means that I would have authority of being able to make some changes in my IEP, even if that means pushing for a certified interpreter, no FM systems, etc. And i'm going to make sure that the school listens to me, because they honestly don't know anything about the deaf culture about what we need for services, and how they think that they know everything about it. Unless they're us, they don't need to be saying : "Well you're only 18..you don't know much about this.." screw that.

At the age of 18 you are legally entitled to make determinations regarding your IEP, including signing off on it, or refusing to accept it as written.

 

[jillio]

And that is what I have seen tooooooooooooo many times and some Deaf adults have tried to explain to the parents that their children's needs arent being met only to get "But my child is paying attention in class and the terp!"

The non-qualified interpreter could be just making a lot of grammatical and vocabulary errors when signing and nobody would know. Who ends up with the language deficits? The deaf child.

Not only that, but misinterpreting scientific and mathematical concepts. That is one of the reasons that about the 4th grade (when material gets more abstract in nature) previously mainstreamed kids begin to fall so far behind, even though they may have been able to struggle and keep up prior.

 

[jillio]

I strongly would NOT reccomend family to become the children's interpreters except in social situations.

It is a definate no no in my book.

 

[posts from hell]

Are you serious? PFH said it was unfortunate and that it happens too often. He has stated that it makes him sick and how he had to leave his job.

Now, you are implying that PFH is saying that deaf children dont deserve qualified interpreters? I am not understanding why you would think that.

It is clear as a bell that he wants the total opposite but the system is too screwed up.

Exactly. I don't understand how that could be misinterpreted, hence the post report for trolling.