Mass Shooting in California , 6 dead :(

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Steinhauer said:
Father of slain Santa Barbara student calls on politicians to 'get to work and do something' about guns after Elliot Rodger rampage that killed 6 near university - NY Daily News

I'll do better than that Mr. Martinez. You may think I am being "harsh" but I can assure you that I am not. I am going to get a post card and write to every politician I can think of with more words than 3. Mine will read "Not one more gun control law - enforce the ones we already have".

The Brady Bunch has politicized every gun related incident, yet, they are finally playing into the ultimate plans of the NRA, for once:

Finally, something the NRA tried to pass in 2008. Mental Health Records of violent mental ill patients should be disclosed in a NICS background check.

And Mr. Martinez, it wasn't the fault of the NRA, nor the fault of politicians who refuse an outright ban of the 2nd Amendment that killed your son. It was a crazy person that killed your son - and we all live in danger of them.
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Do you see my post #127?

NICS Improvement Amendment already became law of the land and it was passed in both chamber, also GWB signed into law.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr2640

But... it only applies to anyone who involuntary commitment to mental hospital.
 
Foxrac said:
2nd Amendment APPLIES to all states but it don't null and void any gun control laws, except for complete firearm ban like in DC and Chicago.

You have deal with it or feel free to break the law, but beware of state prison and that's your problem.
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Maybe all states except 1. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember right Texas didn't sign into the union after the civil war and yes while it's a US state it can fly its flag at the same level as the US flag all other states must fly below the US flag and can do its own thing as governed by state laws not federal if wanted.
 
Foxrac said:
Do you see my post #127?

NICS Improvement Amendment already became law of the land and it was passed in both chamber, also GWB signed into law.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr2640

But... it only applies to anyone who involuntary commitment to mental hospital.
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yes, I saw your post Foxrac. Let me clarify, or, re-phrase what I had said. The NRA was attempting to receive funding to take this one step further. They attempted to allow a background check to disclose medical records of mentally ill patients.

Their attempts were thwarted and medical records cannot be disclosed in a background check. Do some further reading about that.
 
Steinhauer said:
yes, I saw your post Foxrac. Let me clarify, or, re-phrase what I had said. The NRA was attempting to receive funding to take this one step further. They attempted to allow a background check to disclose medical records of mentally ill patients.

Their attempts were thwarted and medical records cannot be disclosed in a background check. Do some further reading about that.
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Your statement is confusing to me.

You know that NICS is government's responsibility, not nonprofit organization like NRA and I just show you that NICS Improvement Act already became a law, but it isn't good enough to curtail the serious mental illness that haven't reported to government.

If my future child has schizophrenia, bipolar or serious mental illness so I will try to get child's name to be register to NICS and ensure that they don't purchase a gun when child become an adult and I just want guns to be out of their hand.
 
Foxrac said:
Your statement is confusing to me.

You know that NICS is government's responsibility, not nonprofit organization like NRA and I just show you that NICS Improvement Act already became a law, but it isn't good enough to curtail the serious mental illness that haven't reported to government.

If my future child has schizophrenia, bipolar or serious mental illness so I will try to get child's name to be register to NICS and ensure that they don't purchase a gun when child become an adult and I just want guns to be out of their hand.
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Here you go:

NRA-ILA | Mental Health and Firearms

I hope this clears up any confusion.
 
Steinhauer said:
I sincerely hope so, why?
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because you seems to be confused that 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to California.

Steinhauer said:
No, that is not what I asked. I asked if the same 2nd Amendment rights that are in all 49 other States also apply to California? Or, is California somehow circumventing the 2nd Amendment? Maybe, I am trying to turn California into America.
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Jiro said:
because you seems to be confused that 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to California.
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Again Jiro, buying or owning a firearm is not the same as bearing arms. I already know this administration will not rule on this, because they know what the answer is. bearing arms extends outside the home.

And ... a San Diego law restricting firearm carry was struck down as unconstitutional .. so I guess the 2nd Amendment does apply to California.
 
Steinhauer said:
Here you go:

NRA-ILA | Mental Health and Firearms

I hope this clears up any confusion.
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Existing law isn't stopping citizens with mental illness from obtain guns and we need more stricter laws to make more broader, outside of mental hospital.

Previously, I was confused about mental illness provision included in universal background check, but it is not because universal background check only address private sales only so that's worthless proposed bill, anyway.

I want stricter regulation for mental illness and make more broader outside of mental hospital.

Even in my state, the judge refused to order some citizens to be admitted to hospital for evaluation, so left citizens with hidden mental illness went unreported. Having a good lawyer works very well to keep you away from hospital.
 
Steinhauer said:
Again Jiro, buying or owning a firearm is not the same as bearing arms. I already know this administration will not rule on this, because they know what the answer is. bearing arms extends outside the home.
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that's not what the Constitution says.

Steinhauer said:
And ... a San Diego law restricting firearm carry was struck down as unconstitutional .. so I guess the 2nd Amendment does apply to California.
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there you go!
 
Foxrac said:
Existing law isn't stopping citizens with mental illness from obtain guns and we need more stricter laws to make more broader, outside of mental hospital.

Previously, I was confused about mental illness provision included in universal background check, but it is not because universal background check only address private sales only so that's worthless proposed bill, anyway.

I want stricter regulation for mental illness and make more broader outside of mental hospital.

Even in my state, the judge refused to order some citizens to be admitted to hospital for evaluation, so left citizens with hidden mental illness went unreported. Having a good lawyer works very well to keep you away from hospital.
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Well, then we agree on something. We have a broken mental health system. The NRA has been saying that since 1966.

You do realize that California has their own State background check, in addition to, a Federal background check? It is called the Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC) and must be submitted with the purchase of each and every firearm.
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/pfecapp.pdf


here are the laws in California that regulate firearms:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=23001-24000&file=23500-23520
 
Steinhauer said:
Well, then we agree on something. We have a broken mental health system. The NRA has been saying that since 1966.

You do realize that California has their own State background check, in addition to, a Federal background check? It is called the Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC) and must be submitted with the purchase of each and every firearm.
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/pfecapp.pdf
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that's why there hasn't been any real movement on gun legislation. California must be very embarrassed by its failed policy
 
Steinhauer said:
Well, then we agree on something. We have a broken mental health system. The NRA has been saying that since 1966.

You do realize that California has their own State background check, in addition to, a Federal background check? It is called the Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC) and must be submitted with the purchase of each and every firearm.
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/pfecapp.pdf
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It looks like sheriff department's fault or medical communities' fault for not report to state-run background check - not enough awareness.

I'm not sure if medical communities are required to report mental illness to state, but it may conflict with HIPAA that where federal law trumps state law.
 
Foxrac said:
It looks like sheriff department's fault or medical communities' fault for not report to state-run background check - not enough awareness.

I'm not sure if medical communities are required to report mental illness to state, but it may conflict with HIPAA that where federal law trumps state law.
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and a slippery slope to Thought Police
 
Foxrac said:
It looks like sheriff department's fault or medical communities' fault for not report to state-run background check - not enough awareness.

I'm not sure if medical communities are required to report mental illness to state, but it may conflict with HIPAA that where federal law trumps state law.
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that was the argument the NRA fought against when they tried to take the law one step further.

that was the point I was making earlier that you got confused over.

It is a delicate situation - we do not want to deny the right of self defense to non-violent functioning mentally ill patients. If there is such a thing, I am sure there is. But to deny the right of self defense to those with malevolent intentions.

So .. where do we start?
 
Steinhauer said:
that was the argument the NRA fought against when they tried to take the law one step further.

that was the point I was making earlier that you got confused over.
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Let me make an example story.

The man's name is Brian and he loves guns. He bought several handguns and shotguns when he was 22 years old. In 3 years later, he got diagnosed with schizophrenia and deal with hallucination that suggest him to kill random people. The psychiatrist puts him on anti-psychotic drugs.

Do you think that Brian should lose the rights to have guns?
 
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