Mainstreaming

[SmiLe ImL]

o shuddup! I don't mean it's a verb. u know wut I'm talk'g abt.

 

[sr171soars]

*Scratching my head* Who in the heck are you talking to?

If it was to me, it sounded like you misunderstood my question which is a legimate question BTW.

I just wanted to know why deaf schools don't do higher math like pre-calculus or calculus. I have done both and know it not for the faint of heart. I also know that deafness doesn't have a direct correlation to intelligence. It really depends on one's innate intelligence to understand the concepts. I also know the higher the math the more esoteric the concepts get and it would be very difficult to interpret in ASL if the interpretator has no idea what the speaker is talking about. I think of topology or quantum mechanics and etc. Actually, that would be true of any complicated and difficult subject.

 

[Mizzou]

same name as Jenny315.... sorry, I went to public school all my life and I am profound deaf. I had few friends went to deaf classes and show me how compare of my hearing classes. Lot of different, okay let's see... When I was in 9th grade and they showed their book was when I was in 6th grade! Oh boy, deafies are lot of behind but I know like black get lot of behind from white people in the past. Now black people are equal with white people so deaf is not equal with deaf IQ who in mainstreamed school, yet. I was not interest to go deaf school or gally/ntid because they will be EASY for me but lot of time from my time was very tough for me. I made it thou so went to TEXAS WOMEN UNIVERSITY or could be go to MONTELLOV UNIVERSITY....anything ?? That is all I can say.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Ummm....interesting. Is it a resource issue? Also, I can see it being hairy trying to interpretate calculus and other higher math concepts.

It's an assumption issue. I've seen it also with how they teach any child with differences. Special ED goes at a much slower pace than the regular education classes, and they also have a ceiling cap as to how far they take concepts. It is NOT uncommon for a special ed student to graduate with limited abilities. This is why I'm so pro regular education. Special ED is needed for those who need it, but to lump everyone together, and teach everyone the same is NOT helping anyone. It doesn't matter if your d/hh, or LD, or orthopedically disabled. If you are capable of functioning in a regular education program, you should be given the chance to do so.

 

[shezzbeav]

I was mainstreamed from preschool to Grade 12 - there were few times I was placed into a Deaf/Hearing-Impaired unit at the schools I was enrolled at (my family moved around quite a lot in my childhood).

I have since found that I did better academically in mainstreamed classrooms, than in Deaf units. In a Deaf unit, teachers would give me work that wasn't challenging enough for me. I was academically challenged in a normal hearing classroom, with an interpreter and note-taker provided, which helped me to get where I am now.

I am now a student at Griffith University. Griffith has excellent services for Deaf students - providing NAATI certificated Auslan interpreters, and it also has a notetaking system, where fellow students in my course volunteer to take notes for me during lectures and tutorials/workshops. This has helped me heaps with my studies.

In my opinion, mainstreaming is a LOT better than being placed in a Deaf unit.

 

[cdmeggers]

To add onto my experiences of going to a deaf school part time and mainstreamed into public school part time...

There were 4 of us (deaf students) in the same grade class, but I was more advanced than the other 3. At the deaf school, even our english lessons were different. Towards the end of my 5th grade year, I was already doing 6th grade english and the other 3 students were still behind.

Everyone's education level is going to be differet. And the teachers at the deaf school did everything they can to educate me at the pace I was going. They didn't hold me back with the other 3 students, they encouraged me to get ahead. They changed lesson plans or assignments as they saw fit to each student.

That's why I really liked this deaf school, they accomodated each student's needs and education levels, if one was ahead of the rest of the students, that student wasn't held back just because the other students weren't at the same level, etc.

 

[sr171soars]

It's an assumption issue. I've seen it also with how they teach any child with differences. Special ED goes at a much slower pace than the regular education classes, and they also have a ceiling cap as to how far they take concepts. It is NOT uncommon for a special ed student to graduate with limited abilities. This is why I'm so pro regular education. Special ED is needed for those who need it, but to lump everyone together, and teach everyone the same is NOT helping anyone. It doesn't matter if your d/hh, or LD, or orthopedically disabled. If you are capable of functioning in a regular education program, you should be given the chance to do so.

I can agree with you if one is capable of functioning in a regular education program, they should be allowed to do so. I can see the educational system getting flumoxed over those who don't fit their expectations...sad...so very sad.

Thanks...

 

[dkf747]

Tell me why then some kids do very well, when others do not?

You seem to want to lump all deaf kids together, and that's unfair. You shouldn't assume that a child is going to have a hard time, and automatically send them to deaf school. Like it or not, that child is going to have to adapt to the world around them, and I honestly believe you aren't doing them any good by holding them back. You're sending a strong message of dependance to the kid, and that is wrong. I honestly believing adapting is better for the child later in life. Mommy and Daddy isn't always going to be there, so the kid is going to have to learn to get along on their own. They might as well start early.

I missed your response earlier. I don't see where I said I wanted to lump all deaf kids together. If you could point out where I said that it would help. My point was that, mainstreaming dhh kids is not the same as mainstreaming those with physical disabilities. The post I responded to was saying that it works for group A so it will also work for group B the same. If you approach it that way then it's going to result in failure.

I also disagree, that sending a deaf kid to a deaf school is "holding them back" For some it might be the wrong choice, but that isn't the same thing as holding "them" back. If that's what you think then please eplain why so many in deaf schools do so well in real life.

 

[jillio]

To add onto my experiences of going to a deaf school part time and mainstreamed into public school part time...

There were 4 of us (deaf students) in the same grade class, but I was more advanced than the other 3. At the deaf school, even our english lessons were different. Towards the end of my 5th grade year, I was already doing 6th grade english and the other 3 students were still behind.

Everyone's education level is going to be differet. And the teachers at the deaf school did everything they can to educate me at the pace I was going. They didn't hold me back with the other 3 students, they encouraged me to get ahead. They changed lesson plans or assignments as they saw fit to each student.

That's why I really liked this deaf school, they accomodated each student's needs and education levels, if one was ahead of the rest of the students, that student wasn't held back just because the other students weren't at the same level, etc.

Thanks for sharing that. My son was educated at a deaf school the same way.

 

[cdmeggers]

Not all schools are going to be alike. Each school is going to be different, and they'll have their own systems of how they educate children, and of how they make accomodations for the deaf student(s) being mainstreamed. And each deaf school is different too.

 

[jillio]

Not all schools are going to be alike. Each school is going to be different, and they'll have their own systems of how they educate children, and of how they make accomodations for the deaf student(s) being mainstreamed. And each deaf school is different too.

And if the accommodations they are willing to make does not serve the best interest of the student, there are legal procedures to remedy the situation. My son was placed in a school for the deaf because the services the home school provided were not adequate. I refused to sign the IEP, we went to due process, and his tuition was paid through the home school funds.

 

[Nomad]

I was totally mainstreamed. Never met another deaf person until I was about 25.

I was also one of the first deaf (moderate loss) kid to go through mainstream schools back in the 60's and 70's (in New Zealand). Support systems were zero. My hearing loss wasn't picked up until I was 7. My aquired lip reading skills caused that. No one was prepared for me ......

Did well academically, had few friends, generally one at a time. Socially and emotionally, a very destructive experience in my case. I am the type of person who has to be either hands on or in the field, not in a classroom. I was about 35 before I discovered I'm not the only one like that. I think I was a little ADD as well. So I was no angel, either. I also managed to figure out how to keep out of trouble as well.... My era at school was behave, be quiet and learn or whack!

Team sports were out, as I couldn't hear most of the cues or signals to play effectively. As I have subsequently discovered, most non sporty types are usually left on the sidelines in more ways than one. Not just because they're deaf.

I seem to have been living my adolescence for the last 5 - 10 years. My wife says it's the mid life thingy, but I reckon I'm living what I never did before, so my life development is quite retarded. It's a new experience for me and fun as well, as I've stopped trying to look normal and not foolish in front of everyone. I wonder if many of us are like that?

As to how I would have done in deaf school.....I get asked that a lot - all I can say is I haven't a clue. It's a purely academic question to me.

All new things have to start somewhere, and in this case it was with me. It must have been OK, as I did notice a number of other deaf kids coming through school a few years behind me.....so I must have started a new trend. Something to be proud of I guess. Since I left the country nearly 30 years ago I don't know what has been advanced since then.

In summary I would say mainstream schools didn't suit me, but undoubtedly it would suit some and others with the right support - just like ordinary hearing people.

 

[dkf747]

I seem to have been living my adolescence for the last 5 - 10 years. My wife says it's the mid life thingy, but I reckon I'm living what I never did before, so my life development is quite retarded. It's a new experience for me and fun as well, as I've stopped trying to look normal and not foolish in front of everyone. I wonder if many of us are like that?

That's an interesting way to put it. I sometimes feel like that myself.

 

[BearBeauty]

I grew up fully mainstreamed despite becoming deaf at age 4. I did have a terrible expierence in elementary school. You know young kids are going to pick on people who were different. I was in speech therapy until age 12, but I never felt held back. My teachers were great as I grew up. I did go to the deaf school for a while part time and visits, but eventually I decided to stay with the public schools as to I was more comfortable with hearing people than deaf people.

I was married to a hoh man for 3 years but didn't feel fully comfortable. It was past bad expierences with Deaf and Hoh people that have, sadly, caused me to continue to be more fully intergrated in the hearing world. I Love deaf culture and sign language, but Since I grew up in mainstream school and had a hearing family, I fear i'll always be on the fence, ya know.. not fully included in either world.

 

[RainGurl]

I was mainstreamed in grade 6. I hated it, I missed my Deaf friends who were family to me. The teachers were qualified to work with me. I felt they understood my frustrations, and allowed me the time I needed to contiune to understand ongoing subjects at school. As I contiuned on to Highschool, I struggled even more. Teachers were not accepting of the issues I had with my hearing loss. They said I had more of a self-esteem problem. Which I didn't. They thought I used my hearing loss as an excuse. People don't understand yea sure you put hearing aids on a kid. That does NOT cure Deafness!! We struggle day to day, hearing and understanding what is being said.

Two out of three of my girls are hard of hearing. I have put them in the same school I was in when I was a child. They have an excellect program for Deaf and HofH children. They do total communication, they are trained and qualified to work with them. They go at their own pace. No pressure. Which they really don't need at this point. Finding their strengths, their self esteem, their place in this world is the number one priority.

I put my middlest in a mainstream school after her being in the program for 3 years. She started at 3 and left at 5. Enrolled in SK, the following year. I admit I was just alittle concerned not so much second guessing myself but I knew I was taking her away from the only family she had known. Yet I also knew that the hearing world (sorry to say has a expectation of Deafies that cope, function, etc which affects all aspects of life). Sad to say, but their expections SUCK!

So anyhow, as my story contiunes. She was also being held back in many respects. Her language had developed at a higher rate then the other students, she wasn't being stimulated, challenged nor was she happy to be in the classroom (learning). She only enjoyed the company of the children. They intergrated her in the regular JK room that year, at first her coping skills were not even there. She shouted the answers, never raised her hands, wasn't willing to deal with the 23 some odd kids in her class. But as the months progressed the JK teacher said she functioned and showed tremendous improvement on how she handled herself socially, language wise and overall she was ready.

She graduated from SK and did with flying colours. She got awards for her academic excellence. Now she goes on to grade 1 this year.

My youngest, she is just doing awesome! She is talking in full sentences with the exceptions of leaving "had, or the -ing" out. But other than that her language has come so far. The teachers that visited us for the program in her school told me that she was at a higher level now. I am pushing her to be out for SK as well. I feel that the program is great, but mainstream gives the challenges that they need to function in the hearing world.

I know I am concerned, I do battle teachers on issues. Only because they think they know everything in the mainstream schools. I don't tell them I am HofH until I am actually faced with an issue with them. I basically say Hey, Iam HofH, do you have the experience of hearing loss? They look at me kind of shocked. I basically say this is the way it's going to be. If I can't get what I want, I'll go somewhere else to find a way. I list my resources, my options, and my choices and if plan A doesn't work I go to plan B.

As much as I hate to admit it, I wish the hearing world could be intergrated in our world to see how life really is for us. I guess we have to take the good with the bad. Find support wherever it's available and keep fighting for what we believe in.

If things ever got so bad, where teachers were not cooperative. The school system just not giving my girls what they needed. My last decision would be to pull them out altogether from the mainstream system and just homeschool them myself.

But as long as I am a so called BUG in their ear. As long as I show up or request a meeting every parent/teacher meeting. As long as I drop in to the princples office and share my concerns. As long as I am active in the school and express my knowledge, concerns and experiences. I feel that things will be fine.

You have to push. They don't just do something for nothiing.

 

[deafdyke]

RainGurl, I think your way of educating rocks! About mainstreaming........are there regional "magnet" schools in your area where it's not specificly for dhh kids, but rather attracts a large population of dhh kids? You could try that.
I think one of the hardest things, is that most mainstream teachers really don't know how to teach kids with classic disabilites (as opposed to LD/ADD etc) Also, keep your mind open when your girls hit jr high/ high school age. They may hit a rough patch and want to attend a residental school. A lot of mainstreamed kids do OK early on, but then become misrable around jr high age. Hey..........high school is horrible even for kids with no disabilities!
Early intervention is very crucial......very crucial.

 

[Chrysanthe]

My education was ups and downs. It was quite confusing for me. I must admit sometimes I think IEP system sucks.

When I was about 3 yrs old, I was involved in a deaf school in Minnesota. I don't remember much about it. Then we moved to Utah, we were under USDB program and during at the times, they believed Oral sytem was the best. Hence I learned how to speak. I had a lot of different speech teachers/therapists. It was boring and hell. Then I became one of 'hearing' clone. I lost my identity. At that time, I didn't know who I was. I thought I was HEARING. My youngest brother is deaf. He can't talk and can't hear. I thought he was DEAF and I was not. Confusing?

Almost all of my life, I was in mainstreaming program. During at the time, I was a strong believer for mainstreaming and I thought Deaf school was worthless. I do admit that I was against sign language and deaf people when I was about 5th to 7th grade. The problem was I was never around deaf people, role models or teachers. NOTHING. Until we moved to Fresno, California, my mother told me there was no Oral program in Fresno except CUED. Heck, I didn't know what that was. My mother knew that I might be comfortable with sign language. I disapproved. Of course, I had no choice. She did what she thought the best for me.

When arriving to Fresno Middle school, I entered in a class with 10 students and all of them were signing. My deaf brother was comfortable and became their friends quickly. Of course, I was stunned and lost. I stood there... for a long time and trying to figure out where I was.

At that time I was confused who I was. There was a girl in that classroom, she was oral and she was freaking me out. (I was not a nice person... ) I decided to learn ASL. It was very hard to me. I learned that I could not participate in deaf class. I was placed with hearing students for a whole day (everyday) Except homeroom hour.

I was jealous that these students were in the same class because they could talk and tease. I was completely left out. I was pretty lonely. I couldn't make any friend with hearing.

I became humbled. I learned that I was deaf since I was born. I learned that I became deaf because my birth mother was hard of hearing.

I finally accepted myself being Deaf and I learned to accept that I am in mainstreaming class. I am not mad that I didn't ever go to deaf classes and I am not mad that I went to mainstreaming class. I know that I had a lot of obstacles during my school years. But what I am thankful for to learn alot of things.

There are some thing I used to wish that I could gone to residental school or wish that I was hearing... etc.

But now it is wrong for me to wish. I looked back and thought about my education, it was a great priviledge to learn deaf program, oral, and mainstreaming program. For who I am today is because of these programs. I do not regret.


Then again, I know I said IEP sucks... but IEP will never have a perfect system.

 

[Gemtun]

II didn't find mainstreaming all that bad. It was what I was used to.

I cant say I was mainstreamed technically as I wasnt in a mainstreamed program but dumped off into a private Catholic school in grade 3.

Looking back, I have no idea how I survived it but I managed it with honors. It wasnt until into my third year in college that I realized that I needed special services, so to speak, but it was too late. I suffered badly in college because each class had over 200 students in a course whereas I was raised in a very small Catholic elementary school. My high school had about 150 students or more in each grade.

I survived with my huge love of reading in high school.

I may have received excellent education but I wasnt taught in sense of social senses. I am still learning about socialization to this day, 20 years after I graduated from high school.

 

[RainGurl]

RainGurl, I think your way of educating rocks! About mainstreaming........are there regional "magnet" schools in your area where it's not specificly for dhh kids, but rather attracts a large population of dhh kids? You could try that.
I think one of the hardest things, is that most mainstream teachers really don't know how to teach kids with classic disabilites (as opposed to LD/ADD etc) Also, keep your mind open when your girls hit jr high/ high school age. They may hit a rough patch and want to attend a residental school. A lot of mainstreamed kids do OK early on, but then become misrable around jr high age. Hey..........high school is horrible even for kids with no disabilities!
Early intervention is very crucial......very crucial.

I totally believe in early intervention. Like I said it's a matter of them gaining that self-confidence. If they don't develop a good sense of self even when they are young how are they even going to set foot in the real hearing world? I know there are times, that I feel I do more battle than enjoying the time when my children are at school. It's hard work on all fronts. If I just let the system do what they want, they'll be deprived of what is rightfully theirs. Support. Education. I feel sometimes the government "allows" these precious kids to "fall between the cracks." I feel it's deliberate sometimes as if to say," Oh well it's only this much percentage. The rest will be fine. Well sorry but that doesn't "fly" with me. The thing they don't realize about the Deaf community is that we "give it our all.' In relationships, in friendships, our jobs, our family. I think that is part they miss. We are all heart. If they put half the money they do for unneccessary things into things that we need as a community I think that they would see we would give back 100 fold to what they have given us. There are no free passes in life. As much as we want such. Sometimes it even gets me that the "hearing community" is up and all excited about ASL and Baby Signs yet they forget the every DAY struggle our Deaf/HofH children face. Sure it's another language, sure it's cool, but you know if it's SO cool then why don't they make ASL a third language that is mandatory just as French? Make the Deaf community a vital part of the hearing world. We can work together, and it can happen.

Sky is the limit. For those to dare to reach.

 

[jillio]

I totally believe in early intervention. Like I said it's a matter of them gaining that self-confidence. If they don't develop a good sense of self even when they are young how are they even going to set foot in the real hearing world? I know there are times, that I feel I do more battle than enjoying the time when my children are at school. It's hard work on all fronts. If I just let the system do what they want, they'll be deprived of what is rightfully theirs. Support. Education. I feel sometimes the government "allows" these precious kids to "fall between the cracks." I feel it's deliberate sometimes as if to say," Oh well it's only this much percentage. The rest will be fine. Well sorry but that doesn't "fly" with me. The thing they don't realize about the Deaf community is that we "give it our all.' In relationships, in friendships, our jobs, our family. I think that is part they miss. We are all heart. If they put half the money they do for unneccessary things into things that we need as a community I think that they would see we would give back 100 fold to what they have given us. There are no free passes in life. As much as we want such. Sometimes it even gets me that the "hearing community" is up and all excited about ASL and Baby Signs yet they forget the every DAY struggle our Deaf/HofH children face. Sure it's another language, sure it's cool, but you know if it's SO cool then why don't they make ASL a third language that is mandatory just as French? Make the Deaf community a vital part of the hearing world. We can work together, and it can happen.

Sky is the limit. For those to dare to reach.

Raingurl, I think you are reading my mind! Great post.!!