Mainstreaming

There are two different issues here...its like comparing apples to oranges.

1) Education

2) Independence

Neither necessarily have a direct correlation to the other. Sometimes they do and often they don't. Depends on the individual.
 
jillio said:
You seem to want to lump all students from schools for the deaf together. They are undereducated, can't cope with the hearing world, are dependant, haven't adpated to their world, etc, etc. Nothing could be more incorrect.
My son attended a school for the deaf, and is a sophomore this fall at a hearign university. He maintained an A- average his freshman year. He also workds part time, and lives off campus with another deaf student. He is coping better with his independance than a heck of a lot of hearing students I know! Deaf school is not equal to lack of education.
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Listen, I mean no offense. I'm just stating an opinion, but I also stand by what I said. Somewhere earlier in the thread, I also said I supported choice, and I do. I'm not knocking your son for going to a deaf school. It obviously worked out for him. But, parents are sometimes too quick to place their kid in a deaf school, when they might've done just as well in a mainstreamed environment.
 
sr171soars said:
There are two different issues here...its like comparing apples to oranges.

1) Education

2) Independence

Neither necessarily have a direct correlation to the other. Sometimes they do and often they don't. Depends on the individual.
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That's true. :)
 
mainstreaming a person with physical disabilities and deaf or HoH, is not the same
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Ditto............like a kid in a chair or who has a walker/ braces/ cane/ forearm crutches can be educated very easily in the mainstream with very minmal accomondations. Many if not most of them don't need hyperspecialized education. Some do.....like they need adaptive toys, alternative communication etc..........but most of them basicly just need an hour or so in the resource room, plus maybe physical or speech therapy.
But, with dhh kids where's the TOD? Where's the speech therapist who knows more then a handful of signs?
With blind kids where's the TOB? Where's the O& M training? Where's the Braille teacher?
 
deafdyke said:
Ditto............like a kid in a chair or who has a walker/ braces/ cane/ forearm crutches can be educated very easily in the mainstream with very minmal accomondations. Many if not most of them don't need hyperspecialized education. Some do.....like they need adaptive toys, alternative communication etc..........but most of them basicly just need an hour or so in the resource room, plus maybe physical or speech therapy.
But, with dhh kids where's the TOD? Where's the speech therapist who knows more then a handful of signs?
With blind kids where's the TOB? Where's the O& M training? Where's the Braille teacher?
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Services such as this is mandated by law. The school must provide the student with any services that he or she made need. That's the law!

Now, I disagree with you regarding your statement regarding the resource room. That's not always the case. It really depends on the child. Each child is different, and you can't just assume that an hr of resource tutoring is all that is needed. Some require alot more, but some require less. This is the point I'm making. Each child is different, and you shouldn't make assumptions about his or her abilities.
 
jillio said:
You seem to want to lump all students from schools for the deaf together. They are undereducated, can't cope with the hearing world, are dependant, haven't adpated to their world, etc, etc. Nothing could be more incorrect.
My son attended a school for the deaf, and is a sophomore this fall at a hearign university. He maintained an A- average his freshman year. He also workds part time, and lives off campus with another deaf student. He is coping better with his independance than a heck of a lot of hearing students I know! Deaf school is not equal to lack of education.
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My nephew sounds similar to your son - he is very bright too and I am fully expecting him to go to university. However his school for the deaf is still poor educationally speaking and he has sadly lost of a lot of his class mates to other schools in the more senior years for this reason.

I believe the reason why my nephew has done so well is due to the quality of the parenting rather than the school.
 
But, parents are sometimes too quick to place their kid in a deaf school, when they might've done just as well in a mainstreamed environment.
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OB, Sigh...........nobody is saying "automaticly put the kid in Deaf school with no exposure to hearing school"
There are significent benifits to being mainstreamed, yes..........but there are also significent benifits to going to a school for the Deaf, even if part time.
Very few dhh kids are put into a deaf school. Most attendees at a deaf school, have been mainstreamed.
It's very clear to see that you've never experianced the politics of mainstreaming a kid with a disabilty. Yes, the law says that kids can receive special services, but what they don't tell you is that the school is not legally obligated to provide the best education/accomondations. They can just provide minimal accomondations, and that's fine and dandy. Ask any parent of a kid with a disabilty...........they will tell you that it's like pulling teeth to get any good accomondations. You either have to be a disabilty rights lawyer or have a kid who's a Super Deaf or very involved to get anything beyond very minimal accomondations.
And trust me..........most of the time, it's the opposite.....parents kneejerk mainstream their kids, instead of thinking that their kids could benifit from a split placement sort of dealie.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
Listen, I mean no offense. I'm just stating an opinion, but I also stand by what I said. Somewhere earlier in the thread, I also said I supported choice, and I do. I'm not knocking your son for going to a deaf school. It obviously worked out for him. But, parents are sometimes too quick to place their kid in a deaf school, when they might've done just as well in a mainstreamed environment.
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No offense taken. I'm simply sharing my experience. And, in dealing with the public schools systems and recommendations for IEP, the last thing they want to do is put a kid in a school for the deaf. I had to fight tooth and nail to have him placed. The push in the public school system is for mainstreaming, yet they are incapable of keeping interpreters on staff and have no specialists in deaf education. They assume that sending a kid to a resource room under the supervision of a generic special ed teacher addresses the needs of a deaf student. Language enrichment is geared toward the LD student and does not take into consideration the special language needs of the deaf student. Most deaf students, when language delayed, experience these delays as a result of not being exposed to language in a mode that makes acquisition natural, and you cannot correct such by continuing to expose them to the same circumstance.
 
jillio said:
No offense taken. I'm simply sharing my experience. And, in dealing with the public schools systems and recommendations for IEP, the last thing they want to do is put a kid in a school for the deaf. I had to fight tooth and nail to have him placed. The push in the public school system is for mainstreaming, yet they are incapable of keeping interpreters on staff and have no specialists in deaf education. They assume that sending a kid to a resource room under the supervision of a generic special ed teacher addresses the needs of a deaf student. Language enrichment is geared toward the LD student and does not take into consideration the special language needs of the deaf student. Most deaf students, when language delayed, experience these delays as a result of not being exposed to language in a mode that makes acquisition natural, and you cannot correct such by continuing to expose them to the same circumstance.
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Point taken. Explain it this way, and you're right. I think what has to happen is this, then. If you're going to mainstream children, give them the services they need. It's really that simple. If they think mainstreaming is the way to go, then give people the services needed to make it successful.

:gpost:

I'm sorry if you were offended by what I said, because in this sense, you're absolutely right!
 
Oceanbreeze said:
Point taken. Explain it this way, and you're right. I think what has to happen is this, then. If you're going to mainstream children, give them the services they need. It's really that simple. If they think mainstreaming is the way to go, then give people the services needed to make it successful.

:gpost:

I'm sorry if you were offended by what I said, because in this sense, you're absolutely right!
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No apology necessary. I was not offended. And I try to share my experience in these forums because so much of what is considered to be policy actually works another way in practice. That's what these discussions should be about; exchange of information and experience wo that all the information gets out there. Too often, what we are told is one sided.
 
They assume that sending a kid to a resource room under the supervision of a generic special ed teacher addresses the needs of a deaf student. Language enrichment is geared toward the LD student and does not take into consideration the special language needs of the deaf student.
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Thank you jillo! One thing that could help a lot might be seperating the administration of special education of kids with classic disabilites from the LD kids.
 
Ummm...so it is a problem of "lumpnitus" (lumping everybody together regardless of disability)...eh? That is a very valid point some of you made there. I agree they need to fit the solution to the problem...

DD - When I was mainstreamed, they knew I really didn't need much help but they did provide speech therapy until I got to JH. Even in JH, they kept an eye on me to make sure I was doing okay. This was back in the 60's & 70's. I think LD wasn't really on the radarscope until just after my time.
 
sr171soars said:
Ummm...so it is a problem of "lumpnitus" (lumping everybody together regardless of disability)...eh? That is a very valid point some of you made there. I agree they need to fit the solution to the problem...

DD - When I was mainstreamed, they knew I really didn't need much help but they did provide speech therapy until I got to JH. Even in JH, they kept an eye on me to make sure I was doing okay. This was back in the 60's & 70's. I think LD wasn't really on the radarscope until just after my time.
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You're right. LD wasn't really recognized until late 70's. And so many of the speech therapists in public schools are trained in the area of speech production problems such as disfluency and phonetic production, not in language acquisition problems as applied to deaf individuals. Also they are used to working with students who are hearing and have speech production problems. Deaf student reqire different techniques. It has been my experience that public schools tend to view deafness as an LD problem, rather than as a cultural and linguistic difference, and they attempt to adress all problems from the same view point.
 
exactly!!! :h5: Thanks jillo......Another problem is that while there are some legimitate LD kids, others who are labeled as LD, are more..............very apathetic towards learning, or the type of person who's like "Ummm who's President Bush?" That really doesn't help legit LD kids all that much either......I mean we all get lumped in and assumed that we're not gonna acheive or whatever. I know smart LD kids, and then I know dumbass kids....and trust me the difference is amazing.
I really think that most kids would be best served by split placement sort of deals, at least early on to find the best placement. A mainstream classroom should not be the automatic placement......remember OB and others.....mainstreaming tends to be targeted towards those who are just plain ol' average. It really doesn't make allowences for people who learn differently........didja know for example that gifted kids often have the same sorts of academic/acheivement problems as sped kids?
 
deafdyke said:
exactly!!! :h5: Thanks jillo......Another problem is that while there are some legimitate LD kids, others who are labeled as LD, are more..............very apathetic towards learning, or the type of person who's like "Ummm who's President Bush?" That really doesn't help legit LD kids all that much either......I mean we all get lumped in and assumed that we're not gonna acheive or whatever. I know smart LD kids, and then I know dumbass kids....and trust me the difference is amazing.
I really think that most kids would be best served by split placement sort of deals, at least early on to find the best placement. A mainstream classroom should not be the automatic placement......remember OB and others.....mainstreaming tends to be targeted towards those who are just plain ol' average. It really doesn't make allowences for people who learn differently........didja know for example that gifted kids often have the same sorts of academic/acheivement problems as sped kids?
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Absolutely, dd! Gifted students are often so bored by the average curriculum that their motivation is ruined. They are often labeled as behavior problems, or mistakenly IDed as LD. Some LD kids are extremely intelligent, and figure out ways to compensate on their own. As a consequence, they often go all the way through the school system without ever being IDed as LD and don't get the services they need. Other students are perfectly capable of learning but are simply unmotivated. Split placement would be an ideal solution.
 
deafdyke said:
remember OB and others.....mainstreaming tends to be targeted towards those who are just plain ol' average. It really doesn't make allowences for people who learn differently........didja know for example that gifted kids often have the same sorts of academic/acheivement problems as sped kids?
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It really doesn't matter to me, DD. I was just making the point that some kids do well in a mainstream environment; while others don't. I still think alot of kids would do well mainstreamed, but that's my opinion. I really don't care to take it any further than that.
 
Well, My children are deaf also,, soo one of my oldest daughter 6 yrs old HOH and she so smart and she easy pick up to learn education at school for the deaf and plus our ASL. School for the deaf as we notice her was very emotional at school for the deaf. We decide put her in mainstreaming first of grade. She s happy in mainstreaming better. IMPORTANT for children happy which to go school. OF Course, balance social event with deaf children!!! Another my young daughter soon 4 yrs old still at deaf program school. My last young baby three months old will going to Early Intervention ! Two of girls are still go speech therpy since the babies.. I am grew up at school for the deaf as I was not good at all (long story)! Anyway
 
Tootsie said:
Well, My children are deaf also,, soo one of my oldest daughter 6 yrs old HOH and she so smart and she easy pick up to learn education at school for the deaf and plus our ASL. School for the deaf as we notice her was very emotional at school for the deaf. We decide put her in mainstreaming first of grade. She s happy in mainstreaming better. IMPORTANT for children happy which to go school. OF Course, balance social event with deaf children!!! Another my young daughter soon 4 yrs old still at deaf program school. My last young baby three months old will going to Early Intervention ! Two of girls are still go speech therpy since the babies.. I am grew up at school for the deaf as I was not good at all (long story)! Anyway
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It does depend on the child. I firmly believe that you should make your decisions on what the individual child needs. That's why I think the either/or debate is ridiculas. Just because my son went to school for the deaf, and was successful, doesn't mean that all deaf children should do the same. There were advantages for him, and there are good points about the environment at the deaf school. There are also good points about a mainstreamed school placement when it is handled correctly. That's why I agree with deafdyke. A split placement would be ideal so that kids are exposed to both hearing and deaf.
 
That deaf schools do not have pre-calculate, only up to algebra II at mainstream schools have more higher academic levels.
 
SmiLe ImL said:
That deaf schools do not have pre-calculate, only up to algebra II at mainstream schools have more higher academic levels.
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Ummm....interesting. Is it a resource issue? Also, I can see it being hairy trying to interpretate calculus and other higher math concepts.
 
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