Mainstreamed deaf people do you remember your childhood that well?

Grummer said:
Jillio you said it well here, that is about the environment as not fitting to our (deaf/Deaf children/adults) needs...in " But you do seem to have vivid visual memories, which just goes to show that it is not a problem with you, but a problem with the environment that didn't meet your needs.", , like Exactly !! that's the sort of issues which should be highlighted in future more extensivly, imo , language is important but its not enough, its about time to discuss about what do we mean by what is the appropriate environment to include deaf people to the '[alternate] manistream environment. This 'mainstream environment' i speak of, is not he same as "mainstreaming" as we know it today per se, an environment which (not dont use 'minimise' - i hatwe that word, its so too much as a veiled 'cop-out' for policy-making. I 'd prefer to see " to ensure an inclusive environment - that is a more positive and pro-active approach than the 'hazard management' method of dealing with changing the environment.

Deafdyke, Even though I was in the deaf unit with another 20 deaf pupils in the early primary school, I too 'felt' I was the only one wearing hearing aids (was in the hearing classroom for an increasing portion of the day as I progressed through Primary schooling) but I never felt completely accepted, always felt I was on the outside. I admit thats strange to think like that, but I guess I did because I 'knew' being deaf is different and as I 'understood' it's like having a crippled ear nevertheless I strived on the forever game of 'catching up'.
Could you elaborate on how it affected the self-esteem?

Cheers :)
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Thank you:ty:, Grummer. I agree...inclusion means far more than simply placing in a mainstream environment. That is something that we seem to have trouble getting the majority to understand.
 
jillio said:
Thank you:ty:, Grummer. I agree...inclusion means far more than simply placing in a mainstream environment. That is something that we seem to have trouble getting the majority to understand.
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Could it be that deaf children dont show signs nor recognize the signs that they are not getting equal access in the mainstreamed setting? Too often teachers, parents, and even counselors see the deaf children sitting in the classroom looking like they are understanding everything that is happening around them when it is not true.

I learned so many tricks to hide the fact that I barely understood anything most of the time.

As I got older, I realized that I wasnt getting equal access but by then my self-esteem was so damaged that I was afraid to speak up and I also blamed myself for not trying hard enough.
 
shel90 said:
Could it be that deaf children dont show signs nor recognize the signs that they are not getting equal access in the mainstreamed setting? Too often teachers, parents, and even counselors see the deaf children sitting in the classroom looking like they are understanding everything that is happening around them when it is not true.

I learned so many tricks to hide the fact that I barely understood anything most of the time.

As I got older, I realized that I wasnt getting equal access but by then my self-esteem was so damaged that I was afraid to speak up and I also blamed myself for not trying hard enough.
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Oh, I think so. Kind of the old saying "yes" when you mean "no" syndrome. If a kid just acts like they understand, it draws less attention to the fact that they are different from their classmates. It happens all the time.
 
jillio said:
Oh, I think so. Kind of the old saying "yes" when you mean "no" syndrome. If a kid just acts like they understand, it draws less attention to the fact that they are different from their classmates. It happens all the time.
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Then, those educators, counselors, and parents need to be educated about recognizing those signs. I dont think they have been educated.
 
shel90 said:
Then, those educators, counselors, and parents need to be educated about recognizing those signs. I dont think they have been educated.
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No, they haven't. Nor do they bother, much of time, to ask follow up questions that would indicate whether a child understood or not. They just say, "Do you understand?" and leave it there.
 
jillio said:
No, they haven't. Nor do they bother, much of time, to ask follow up questions that would indicate whether a child understood or not. They just say, "Do you understand?" and leave it there.
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Yea, I remember my teachers constantly asking me if I understand and I would lie saying yes and then all was solved in their eyes.
 
shel90 said:
Yea, I remember my teachers constantly asking me if I understand and I would lie saying yes and then all was solved in their eyes.
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I know what you mean. They see your head nodding "yes" but miss that puzzled look in your eyes.
 
jillio said:
I know what you mean. They see your head nodding "yes" but miss that puzzled look in your eyes.
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My brother used to do that all the time with hearing family members..he would nod his head so rapidly. I recognized that was a sign he wasnt understanding anything but nobody else did. How could they not recognize it cuz that is not normal for people just nod without commenting back. U would think after all those years, they would have gotten a hint? I never said anything cuz I didnt want to embarrass him.
 
shel90 said:
My brother used to do that all the time with hearing family members..he would nod his head so rapidly. I recognized that was a sign he wasnt understanding anything but nobody else did. How could they not recognize it cuz that is not normal for people just nod without commenting back. U would think after all those years, they would have gotten a hint? I never said anything cuz I didnt want to embarrass him.
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You would think so, but I guess they figured with very little speech, he was just doing what was natural for him! People!

The whole time he was standing there nodding his head, he was probably thinking, "These people don't have a clue!"
 
jillio said:
You would think so, but I guess they figured with very little speech, he was just doing what was natural for him! People!

The whole time he was standing there nodding his head, he was probably thinking, "These people don't have a clue!"
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Last Thanksgiving, my brother and his friend who is a VRS terp went to Colorado for the weekend. My mom's sister lives there so they decided to pay them a visit. When I asked my brother how it went. He said that he made them laugh so hard but what hit me was my aunt and my cousin's comments were that they didnt know he had such a great sense of humor. I told my brother that I was glad he had a good time and that finally, my aunt finally got to know who he is despite 32 years of being in the same family.
 
shel90 said:
Last Thanksgiving, my brother and his friend who is a VRS terp went to Colorado for the weekend. My mom's sister lives there so they decided to pay them a visit. When I asked my brother how it went. He said that he made them laugh so hard but what hit me was my aunt and my cousin's comments were that they didnt know he had such a great sense of humor. I told my brother that I was glad he had a good time and that finally, my aunt finally got to know who he is despite 32 years of being in the same family.
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Yeah, its a sahme that it took so long. Think of all the joy family members denied themselves just because they didn't take the time to communicate.
 
Grummer

I never had an experience mainstream school entire my life. Went to Deaf school since I was three years old. Very confuse four languages during my childhood because most of hearing teachers had their homemade sign language. My dad uses very old fashioned sign language. My grandmother used BSL and oral method. I do not know much ASL until I was entrolled college, it impact me alot... Wow... I become more admire into Deaf Community because it is true my idifity. I realized, what I have so much miss in my academic during my school.

I remember, I went to Girl Scout Camping, parties and neighbors. They put me isolate because they did not want to bother to talk with me. I never understand their speak, no patient to speak slow for me. I always disappointed when the school closed every year. Summer always bored for me because I had a difficult to interact with other hearing kids due to communication barrier.

Until I was high school students, we started to sleep over their houses, they came over my house during summer time. I had so much fun with Deaf friends than hearing friends.

I looked back what I went through. 75% I was not happy where I went to Deaf School. 25% good memories like involve prom, yearbook, student couneslor, basketball, cheerleader and field hockey teams. My most favorite Deaf teacher (Mr. John Spellman). He died due to cancer. He impact my life because he hided in the classroom with sign language, we dropped our jaws on the floor. I always love going to his class than other teachers because of his sign was much better than others.

Glad, I did go to college. I learned so much from other Deaf students until now...
 
shel90 said:
Last Thanksgiving, my brother and his friend who is a VRS terp went to Colorado for the weekend. My mom's sister lives there so they decided to pay them a visit. When I asked my brother how it went. He said that he made them laugh so hard but what hit me was my aunt and my cousin's comments were that they didnt know he had such a great sense of humor. I told my brother that I was glad he had a good time and that finally, my aunt finally got to know who he is despite 32 years of being in the same family.
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wow that is awesome. Glad, your aunt finally realizes for who your brother is. Yes definetly communication is the key !
 
shel90 said:
Could it be that deaf children dont show signs nor recognize the signs that they are not getting equal access in the mainstreamed setting? Too often teachers, parents, and even counselors see the deaf children sitting in the classroom looking like they are understanding everything that is happening around them when it is not true.

I learned so many tricks to hide the fact that I barely understood anything most of the time.

As I got older, I realized that I wasnt getting equal access but by then my self-esteem was so damaged that I was afraid to speak up and I also blamed myself for not trying hard enough.
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so did I, but honestly i dont even know it, its probably so well hidden, concealed in to my subconscious.

I think it would be a good idea to create some sort of initative to create some sort of workshop to reveal that 'hidden denial' behaviours which we have done to ourselves, as a way to get past the mere language politics, becasue like without the 'why deaf people had to go thru - awareness in the public (than just Sign language _ because hearing people automatically thinks sign language problems only 'belongs to deaf people, and partly the education system - all without realising they (actual hearing people closest (and close proximy in according to Brofenbrenner's ecological system) to their deaf members have contributed that unwitting re-inforcement to the suppression of deaf people's real struggle surrounding being cut off from interaction and inclusion. Im just blabbing off ideas here, i kind of feel its a good time and thing to investigate this sort of matter further. Language politics is 'here to stay but it cant advance without those other dis-abliing factors brought to the fore.

Cheers
 
Kalista, you are not the only one who was not happy at school for the deaf.

However, my reason was different.

I remember finally gave up and told my family I wanted to transfer to public school at my junior year. After some fighting with moron staff/counselor/whoever they are, they decided to let me go. Ironic, I own it to my parent and one teacher who realized that I would be better off being at public school. So, she stood up for me. I would never forget that. I guess this is the only time someone at the school for the deaf actually stood up for me, now I think about it. Sure there are some people I liked at that school but spending everyday being bored to death because all information is below my level. Lol, I remember my family being surprised that I got a "D" at some courses. Never got below "B" in public school. Come on, that would happens if you lost your hope or dream for the future. I remember hating teachers who are deaf quite more than teachers that aren't. I never understood why, even now I am not quite sure why.

I remember when I got homeworks from public school and sat down on the floor and spend quite long time on the homeworks. I was thinking to myself something like this, "That is what the students normally do? That's how it feels to be a real student?" I was so happy to do hard works where I barely had to at school for the deaf. I know this sounds crazy but...

I don't have a lot of fond memories at that school for the deaf. There are a lot of things I am trying to forget. The last two years at public school (junior-senior) is the happiest two years of my life.
 
Grummer said:
Yeah its weird, I have bits and peices too, I really wish I could ask some people, but then some of these people have ceased, or drifted off completely like my parents have no longer connection with them, people move on and such, it can be slightly irratating that there'd be questions never answered, even for tiny silly details like "why did you say that, or did you tell me this when I was little?"

I'm not surpised at all when you mentioned remembering things like patterns, I have that similar fascination too especially with remembering the vinyl floor patterns or the bathroom glass windows in the 1970's.
In a way it was comforting and I admit I missed some fo those patterns, the nice orangey, or brown coloured paterns on those 70's wallpapers and in a quirky way it remained me of seasame street' "counting" animations that wowed me alot LOL - wierd ?! yes so having said that now I think I know what you mean by saying 'weird' nods.......

We could say our memories are too weird, its not 'normal' that this sort of confusion arent healthy nor helping the social and personal growth we needed.
I can hardly remember things like if a kid was laughing on the chair, but i do old 'earliest school classmates' and their play-time/ground talks about the "six million dollar man' on tv, or Logan's Run Tv series as we'd take turn to imitate these characters in the playground, - but all the while I would not KNOW anything of what they TALKED about like the 'dialouges' which the kids would 'repeat' or imitate, becuase i was deaf, i just only heard some blip ' or laser gun noises' we all imitiated that ofc but the more -harder to pick out voices,(and cartoons are impossible to lipread ofc!) im completely lost, i recall qutie vividly one day, that about when i was 7 or 8 years old (in a group of classmate some how go together at a long lunchtime (1 hr seemed a long time when you're small) we decided to play The Flintstones (while I knew Fred flintstone but had no idea who was Barney Rumble was,i was asked to Play him, I was dumbstruck as I didnt know how Barney would talk (he was a quite character in the show) and did found out about 6 months later when Flintstone was aired again) However, that playground incident was kind of sour and not much fun and i did recall the bell rang ('being saved by the bell" !!) but still i was left wondering who was Barney and felt stink that i didnt play well, kind of spoiled the fun. When I was much older, like 20 years later or so, yes that long! I just didnt think about it untill, like "oh geezz" it was embarrassing) but at the time i was perplexed as well as ignorant, but felt dumb yet was happy to be playing with that 'dream girl' of the classroom of the day lol, so much that i didnt realise I was looked an idiot. hell i didnt even know how I got through it. But what pains me is that these sort of thing have lasting effects on just ourselves but also the way hearing children perceives us (and their parents). it is needless and quite damaging even in subtle ways, like the complete lack of leadership role , or loooking stupid (even when I was completely unware of that), which these hearing kids really got the idea of, or group interaction while being deaf, we got zip, nothing at all, only parroting and following, i think its cruel.
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I know exactly what you mean when you was talking about the cartoon characters. It wasn't until I went to college and was in a discussion with other students about retro (and more contemporary) cartoons that I realized I didn't know the names of many of them...so I immediatly excused myself and went to the computer lab and that's how I learned the names not only of the characters but the shows. It may seem trivial to some people but I was mortified to even admit to my closest friends about this...I'm not dumb (well, for the most part...I've done dumb things like everyone else)...but there are gaps that should not be there. Like for example, in high school, I was taking college classes and advanced courses - but I had NO earthly idea that I could order what I wanted from McDonald's. I thought you just showed up, give them some money, and they would give you whatever was next. I used to pray that I would get what I wanted - like I was in some kind of casino, waiting for my luck to happen. (My mother ordered for me but I wasn't aware that what she was saying). And it was only a few years ago that I learned the function of the intercom. I was a teacher! Now it all makes sense why sometimes kids and teachers in my school would stop and turn their heads a little. I can remember sitting in one of those desks as a kid, thinking, "There's something seriously wrong...the question is...with them? or me?"
 
Silentwolfdog said:
Kalista, you are not the only one who was not happy at school for the deaf.

However, my reason was different.

I remember finally gave up and told my family I wanted to transfer to public school at my junior year. After some fighting with moron staff/counselor/whoever they are, they decided to let me go. Ironic, I own it to my parent and one teacher who realized that I would be better off being at public school. So, she stood up for me. I would never forget that. I guess this is the only time someone at the school for the deaf actually stood up for me, now I think about it. Sure there are some people I liked at that school but spending everyday being bored to death because all information is below my level. Lol, I remember my family being surprised that I got a "D" at some courses. Never got below "B" in public school. Come on, that would happens if you lost your hope or dream for the future. I remember hating teachers who are deaf quite more than teachers that aren't. I never understood why, even now I am not quite sure why.

I remember when I got homeworks from public school and sat down on the floor and spend quite long time on the homeworks. I was thinking to myself something like this, "That is what the students normally do? That's how it feels to be a real student?" I was so happy to do hard works where I barely had to at school for the deaf. I know this sounds crazy but...

I don't have a lot of fond memories at that school for the deaf. There are a lot of things I am trying to forget. The last two years at public school (junior-senior) is the happiest two years of my life.
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That is the change I want to see happening in the school for the deaf. I want to see school for the deaf improving their currculum instead of closing down those schools and mainstreaming those kids. The deaf kids need both ASL and a great curriculum that push them to do the best they can do.

I never have been mainstreaming but I do understand what do you mean because my oral day school is like your deaf school. That is why I asked my parents to send me to a private catholic deaf school. Better curriculum there.
 
Buffalo said:
That is the change I want to see happening in the school for the deaf. I want to see school for the deaf improving their currculum instead of closing down those schools and mainstreaming those kids. The deaf kids need both ASL and a great curriculum that push them to do the best they can do.

I never have been mainstreaming but I do understand what do you mean because my oral day school is like your deaf school. That is why I asked my parents to send me to a private catholic deaf school. Better curriculum there.
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The sad fact of the matter is, the public schools do not even serve the best needs of the hearing students. Our public school system has numerous problems, and are turning out hearing students unable to read and write at an advanced level. Math skills are on the decline. Knowledge of science is lacking. If a public system cannot serve a student population who does not need additional accommodation, how can they best serve a student population that does need additional accommodation? IMO, mainstreaming simply puts kids at risk in an environment that is at risk.
 
SilentWolfdog and Kalista, I honestly think that it should be much easier for dhh kids to do a split placement. Like part of the week or day at the deaf school/program and then the rest of the time at the hearing school.
And yes, jillo you're right. Add to that the fact that most mainstream teachers (including special ed) really don't get all that much training in how to teach kids with "classic" disabilites.
 
jillio said:
The sad fact of the matter is, the public schools do not even serve the best needs of the hearing students. Our public school system has numerous problems, and are turning out hearing students unable to read and write at an advanced level. Math skills are on the decline. Knowledge of science is lacking. If a public system cannot serve a student population who does not need additional accommodation, how can they best serve a student population that does need additional accommodation? IMO, mainstreaming simply puts kids at risk in an environment that is at risk.
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Are you saying that the public schools are doing a poor job of meeting the needs of the students because of the policies set by policymakers or the teachers arent getting quality training from the teaching programs?
 
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