Literacy of Deaf People

Desumon said:
lolgrammar.jpg
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:lol: Funny pic!
 
The deaf community will ALWAYS defend themselves in terms like this. One statement that is repeated is that a lot of hearing people have poor English skills too, but let's say that an extensive study was made and there indeed is a much larger percentage of deaf adults who have less than high school literacy than hearing people. Do you think deaf people will then admit "Okay maybe we need to kick up on our literacy"? Nope, there's a lot of other things to blame "English is hard", "My language was delayed", "Why should I work harder for the damn hearing world?" and so on.

You should not judge people just because you saw that they have bad grammar in a forum or something because you know nothing about them. However, if I meet someone, got to know them a bit, and realize that they have really bad grammar because they didn't make the effort, I will be irked.
 
Hear Again said:
would someone mind describing the pic that desumon posted? thanks.
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I can't even explain the pic (nor do I get it!) but Ill try. It's a black and white drawing cartoon. The first panel has a guy jumping and landing on the floor with his chest, pointing to a group of people who are looking at him. The second panel has a close-up of that guy on the floor saying "Grammar." The third panel has the floor guy watching as the group of people start attacking each other, their faces were greatly exaggerated with sharp teeth baring, eyes widened.

I understand how this comic fits into the topic but I don't understand the comic itself! Sorry desumon!
 
Hear Again said:
would someone mind describing the pic that desumon posted? thanks.
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it is black and white cartoon of people. ( i cant tell if they are girl or boy)


*first, the people stands looking down at the person when the person jumps landing on the floor with his finger points at the group.

*second, the close picture of the person who is on the floor saying "GRAMMAR!", still his finger points at the group.

*last, the group ended up fighting each other so violently. while the person on the flooor had big teeth smiling like *hehehe*.
 
Byrdie714 said:
I thought it was a good opinion until the smart-aleck comment at the end of the video in regards to the sound file of people having sex and that we can't hear it.

Made me lose total respect for the said opinion.

If one wants to present a respectable opinion, they should without the expense of making fun of the Deaf community.
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ITA, Byrdie! I was nodding my head until that last comment.

I've always been a stickler for spelling, punctuation and grammar. It's important to note that this isn't just something deaf people are deficient in-a lot of hearing people seem to have problems with written communication too, but with ASL-speak, I have to translate in my head which isn't a big problem for me but will seem like terrible English to employers. I believe there's nothing wrong with writing in ASL when communicating with other deaf people but this is the real world and they demand clear communication. I don't know if teachers in deaf schools are to blame or if it's the individuals.
 
Daredevel7 said:
The deaf community will ALWAYS defend themselves in terms like this. One statement that is repeated is that a lot of hearing people have poor English skills too, but let's say that an extensive study was made and there indeed is a much larger percentage of deaf adults who have less than high school literacy than hearing people. Do you think deaf people will then admit "Okay maybe we need to kick up on our literacy"? Nope, there's a lot of other things to blame "English is hard", "My language was delayed", "Why should I work harder for the damn hearing world?" and so on.

You should not judge people just because you saw that they have bad grammar in a forum or something because you know nothing about them. However, if I meet someone, got to know them a bit, and realize that they have really bad grammar because they didn't make the effort, I will be irked.
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Agreed. But deaf people are trying to do something about it...hence the fight to improve education for the deaf and organizations like the Deaf Bilingual Coalition and the efforts of the NAD.
 
Zaicate said:
It is youtube, he have all of the rights to make any kind of videos and post them up. I can list some of the videos that I object to but I can't do anything because its within THEIR rights to make those videos and post them. Reactions varies. Some will agree with his advice, some (like you and some others in here) will object to it.

Evidently, you wanted other deaf's reactions to what he posted, and you got it. It is, by and large, negative. That can be used as a learning experience for him in order to change his approach, if indeed his intent is good. Or it can be used as a way to try and justify his insensitivity and critical approach.

Maybe he is making effort to get more involved in Deaf things I am doing, ever thought about that? He rarely go to this site because of the literature thing. EVERYBODY have the right to be here and read the posts.

If he is making the effort to get more involved in Deaf things, then he needs to learn how to approach the Deaf community from their perspective, and not from his own. Otherwise, he will continue to receive negative reactions. I have a question on that matter, however. If he were truly attempting to reach out to the Deaf community in a positive way, why didn't he post the video in ASL? I would venture to say, it is because he doesn't know the language.
And actually, he didn't name the authors of posts so there is no legal situation involved. Plus it's not illegal to take something that is readily available to anyone not logged in and use it in criticism or parody. It's called the Fair Use Policy. Google it.
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He doesn't have to name the poster to have legal liability. Not to mention, it is just another indication of his insensitivity and inconsideration for deaf individuals for not asking permission first.
 
Zaicate said:
Thanks for typing out the transcript for deaf-blind members, Jiro. I truly appreciate it :) I would have gotten on but boyfriend was on so I had to wait for my turn on the computer (we only have one computer until I save enough money to get a computer of my own)

The creator of that video is my ex husband and he do not have any anger toward D/deaf culture or community at all. He just hate to see grammar errors or that kind of thing, I get corrected whenever I write to him to communicate with him on my grammar and English errors which is almost all of the time. But it really helped me out by making me work harder to improve so he won't find anything wrong with my writing. So why judge him based on just that video and make your quick judgments about him (like him being angry at deaf community when he is not and that kind of thing)?

Granted, the little 'joke' at the end of the clip is amusing (to me but again, I have lived with him for 5 years so my sense of humor is warped) and could have done in more tasteful manner. And there were TWO songs playing in background (I forgot the names but yeah.. two songs)

As for the drug abuse thing, he was using the couple of people he met (through me) as an example, he wasn't basing the entire deaf community on the example he did (the drug-abuse, government teat-suckler one) *shrugs*

Why should he sugarcoat his words when he want to give his advice to someone? (which is very rare because he is very anti-social person) Personally I can see everybody's point and agree with some aspects of those posts.

@ hohDougRN: your comment "The longer Im deaf the less I care about grammatical differences or cuturally accepted jargon" irks me big time because english, grammatical differences is VERY important when you are in the real world because your job might require some writing or communicating via paper and pen. Each one of us are the Representative of the deaf community in the real world and whatever we do or say (or attempt to do or say) reflect on us AND the deaf community. But again, I am a bookworm and english is always part of my daily life so I couldn't fathom not caring about it at all. So I am trying to understand why you are saying that.. can you explain more?
@VamPyroX: definitely agreed.

@shel90: Agreed. But the poor foundation of english eduaction CAN be strengthened with some motivational, determination and more remedial classes at the better schools.
And reading books can really help out because it teach you things subconsciously.. even funny short stories can really teach you about the English, grammar and things related to the topic. So yes, I do encourage D/deaf people to take 30 minutes out of their daily lives to sit down to read a book or write something.

@Berry: You are jumping to conclusion and making quick judgments without getting more information about it. Yes, there is illiterate hearing peoples out there but it is not a point.. the point the OP is trying to make is that D/deaf people need to pick up a book, or go to english class or TRY to make effort to type properly (not necessarily STIFF properly) instead of letting their english capacity slip (and he knows that every one of D/deaf people is CAPABLE of writing without mangling the english language. He is very blunt (maybe too blunt for his own good) and like I say before, he doesn't sugarcoat things and will tell the person what he is REALLY thinking.
As for the drug thing *points up to her comment above her replies*

Don't feel sorry for me, Berry :) My boyfriend might be brash and crude but he does care. One of his huge pet peeves is net speaking because he thinks its stupid and lazy way to mangle the english language and lower the entire community's IQ level.

@ Jiro: Confusing educational system, you say? I disagree with you there. The educational system are always trying to find a way to make things more easier and clear. Some people might need some one-on-one tutoring so they could get more out of it (nothing wrong with that, I had some when I was in elementary school and it benefited me greatly). Like some people in here said, there is various reasons for some AD'ers lack of english skills so who knows?
The point is that it is not hard to take 30 minutes out of your daily life (which some people use to surf this forum :P) to read a book or write something. The entire point of the video is my boyfriend trying to tell the D/deaf community to pick up a book or pen and DO something about it.. there is no offense meant to be made.

Chill.. take in deeeeep breath because this is just a debate (and opinions because I am curious about them) so don't get all twisted up about it :)
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Zaicate, sorry I upset you, it was not intended to do so. As further clarification of my meaning: I meant that the further I go the more I tolerate if others' differences in communication. When you get to know me more you will know I am very articulate communicator. I am more than capable in producing grad school quality literature, authorship, or editing. At the same time, you will not likely see me ever correct somebody's grammer here. I hope this helps :)
 
If we are going to do some grammar corrections, let's start with the OP.

The first picture (should read "frame", as this is a video) is a prime example of netspeak. (Should be a capital N on Netspeak) I don't know how lazy someone has to be to not type out an extra two letters to correctly spell 'you',(Should be " " around you) (comma needed before but) but it reflects badly on the person. The second picture (should read "frame")is a prime example of bad (should read "incorrect"; grammar is neither good nor bad but correct or incorrect)grammar. Yoda spoke better than this drivel. (Sentence should read, Yoda used more correct grammar than the examples.)The English written language (should read English written language. Written is a descriptive of English) is just that: a written language. It is nobody's (should read no one's) first language. From the moment we are born, we slowly absorb everything around us, (no comma needed. This is not a listing) and the first language we learn is the spoken or signed language of our parents. Because of this, we learn the written portion of our language a little later in life when we can comprehend what the words mean.(Capital "t" at the beginning of a sentence) this holds true to everyone,(;, not ,) deaf or not.(should read "deaf or hearing" for clarity) As an adult, there is no excuse for having bad grammar and/or spelling. Nobody's (should read No one's) grammar is perfect,(no comma needed) but making something simple to write turn out to be (entire phrase "turn out to be" is redundant and verbose) incomprehensible to someone else is just plain lazy. As an adult,(no comma needed) you have ample opportunity to learn and improve,(should be a period) but (No "but, and capital "s") some choose to not do so (should read "not to do so") for one reason or another. I know of a couple in Dover, Delaware (either use parentheses around the phrase stating the names or rephrase the entire sentence) by the names of Amy and Daniel who simply refuse to learn. The woman is clearly an adult, (no comma needed) and (who? need the word "she") here ( here is not needed) has yet to take the GED. Her spelling and grammar are so atrocious that success on the test is nigh-(this is not a hypenated word, but two completely separate words) impossible. But (no But and capital C on considering) considering that they are jobless drug-addicts who prefer to suckle on the government teat rather than expand their ambition, I do not believe they will make it very far in this world.(run on sentence structure) I implore you, deaf community,(a colon, not a comma) to (no "to")pick up an English study guide and LEARN.

Thank you for your time.

PS,(no comma. Need a period) the sound file in the background are (is, not are; file is singular) two people having sex. Too bad you can't hear it.

Looks like someone needs to take their own "advise".
 
Ouch.. that's got to leave a hefty mark saying OWNED. May I present the honor for you to take the cattle branding stick jillio?

Zaicate, incase you do read this before you respond to above. Jillio isn't ranting you out, she's just pointing out flaws and inconsistencies that even the hearing or those that do well on grammar tend to have, as nobody is perfect, and she just perfectly backed up her statement. Don't start a ball game with de-proving this.
 
jillio said:
If we are going to do some grammar corrections, let's start with the OP.

The first picture (should read "frame", as this is a video) is a prime example of netspeak. (Should be a capital N on Netspeak) I don't know how lazy someone has to be to not type out an extra two letters to correctly spell 'you',(Should be " " around you) (comma needed before but) but it reflects badly on the person. The second picture (should read "frame")is a prime example of bad (should read "incorrect"; grammar is neither good nor bad but correct or incorrect)grammar. Yoda spoke better than this drivel. (Sentence should read, Yoda used more correct grammar than the examples.)The English written language (should read English written language. Written is a descriptive of English) is just that: a written language. It is nobody's (should read no one's) first language. From the moment we are born, we slowly absorb everything around us, (no comma needed. This is not a listing) and the first language we learn is the spoken or signed language of our parents. Because of this, we learn the written portion of our language a little later in life when we can comprehend what the words mean.(Capital "t" at the beginning of a sentence) this holds true to everyone,(;, not ,) deaf or not.(should read "deaf or hearing" for clarity) As an adult, there is no excuse for having bad grammar and/or spelling. Nobody's (should read No one's) grammar is perfect,(no comma needed) but making something simple to write turn out to be (entire phrase "turn out to be" is redundant and verbose) incomprehensible to someone else is just plain lazy. As an adult,(no comma needed) you have ample opportunity to learn and improve,(should be a period) but (No "but, and capital "s") some choose to not do so (should read "not to do so") for one reason or another. I know of a couple in Dover, Delaware (either use parentheses around the phrase stating the names or rephrase the entire sentence) by the names of Amy and Daniel who simply refuse to learn. The woman is clearly an adult, (no comma needed) and (who? need the word "she") here ( here is not needed) has yet to take the GED. Her spelling and grammar are so atrocious that success on the test is nigh-(this is not a hypenated word, but two completely separate words) impossible. But (no But and capital C on considering) considering that they are jobless drug-addicts who prefer to suckle on the government teat rather than expand their ambition, I do not believe they will make it very far in this world.(run on sentence structure) I implore you, deaf community,(a colon, not a comma) to (no "to")pick up an English study guide and LEARN.

Thank you for your time.

PS,(no comma. Need a period) the sound file in the background are (is, not are; file is singular) two people having sex. Too bad you can't hear it.

Looks like someone needs to take their own "advise".
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*snickers*
 
:applause:

That is a perfect example in jillo's correcting OP's grammar, that hearing peoplel DO make grammatical errors. :aw:
 
jillio said:
If we are going to do some grammar corrections, let's start with the OP.

The first picture (should read "frame", as this is a video) is a prime example of netspeak. (Should be a capital N on Netspeak) I don't know how lazy someone has to be to not type out an extra two letters to correctly spell 'you',(Should be " " around you) (comma needed before but) but it reflects badly on the person. The second picture (should read "frame")is a prime example of bad (should read "incorrect"; grammar is neither good nor bad but correct or incorrect)grammar. Yoda spoke better than this drivel. (Sentence should read, Yoda used more correct grammar than the examples.)The English written language (should read English written language. Written is a descriptive of English) is just that: a written language. It is nobody's (should read no one's) first language. From the moment we are born, we slowly absorb everything around us, (no comma needed. This is not a listing) and the first language we learn is the spoken or signed language of our parents. Because of this, we learn the written portion of our language a little later in life when we can comprehend what the words mean.(Capital "t" at the beginning of a sentence) this holds true to everyone,(;, not ,) deaf or not.(should read "deaf or hearing" for clarity) As an adult, there is no excuse for having bad grammar and/or spelling. Nobody's (should read No one's) grammar is perfect,(no comma needed) but making something simple to write turn out to be (entire phrase "turn out to be" is redundant and verbose) incomprehensible to someone else is just plain lazy. As an adult,(no comma needed) you have ample opportunity to learn and improve,(should be a period) but (No "but, and capital "s") some choose to not do so (should read "not to do so") for one reason or another. I know of a couple in Dover, Delaware (either use parentheses around the phrase stating the names or rephrase the entire sentence) by the names of Amy and Daniel who simply refuse to learn. The woman is clearly an adult, (no comma needed) and (who? need the word "she") here ( here is not needed) has yet to take the GED. Her spelling and grammar are so atrocious that success on the test is nigh-(this is not a hypenated word, but two completely separate words) impossible. But (no But and capital C on considering) considering that they are jobless drug-addicts who prefer to suckle on the government teat rather than expand their ambition, I do not believe they will make it very far in this world.(run on sentence structure) I implore you, deaf community,(a colon, not a comma) to (no "to")pick up an English study guide and LEARN.

Thank you for your time.

PS,(no comma. Need a period) the sound file in the background are (is, not are; file is singular) two people having sex. Too bad you can't hear it.

Looks like someone needs to take their own "advise".
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:giggle: Oh you're bad!
 
jillio said:
He doesn't have to name the poster to have legal liability. Not to mention, it is just another indication of his insensitivity and inconsideration for deaf individuals for not asking permission first.
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exaclty thats first thing in my mind. How dare he took someone else's english as an example in the public announcement.
 
Frisky Feline said:
exaclty thats first thing in my mind. How dare he took someone else's english as an example in the public announcement.
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Yep. Common curtesy dictates that you ask first. Not to ask shows a disrespect for the person.
 
jillio said:
"If you are going to criticise an entire community, you need to clean up your own act first."
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I still prefer the term "teapot calling the kettle black." It seems a lot more retrohip than plain ole' english. Plus, it makes you look a zillion times cooler too.:laugh2:
 
naisho said:
I still prefer the term "teapot calling the kettle black." It seems a lot more retrohip than plain ole' english. Plus, it makes you look a zillion times cooler too.:laugh2:
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That phrase crossed my mind, as well.:giggle:
 
Daredevel7 said:
The deaf community will ALWAYS defend themselves in terms like this. One statement that is repeated is that a lot of hearing people have poor English skills too, but let's say that an extensive study was made and there indeed is a much larger percentage of deaf adults who have less than high school literacy than hearing people. Do you think deaf people will then admit "Okay maybe we need to kick up on our literacy"? Nope, there's a lot of other things to blame "English is hard", "My language was delayed", "Why should I work harder for the damn hearing world?" and so on.

You should not judge people just because you saw that they have bad grammar in a forum or something because you know nothing about them. However, if I meet someone, got to know them a bit, and realize that they have really bad grammar because they didn't make the effort, I will be irked.
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Yeah, that's one big problem...

They say two things:

"English is so hard!" "They should take it easy on us cuz we're deaf!" "I can't help it if my ASL makes me like this."

"I wish hearing people would treat us deaf people as equals!"

Well, that's the problem... if deaf people want hearing people to treat them as equals, then they should suck up and learn everything just as hearing people did. If hearing people learned English, then deaf people should learn English too.
 
VamPyroX said:
Yeah, that's one big problem...

They say two things:

"English is so hard!" "They should take it easy on us cuz we're deaf!" "I can't help it if my ASL makes me like this."

"I wish hearing people would treat us deaf people as equals!"

Well, that's the problem... if deaf people want hearing people to treat them as equals, then they should suck up and learn everything just as hearing people did. If hearing people learned English, then deaf people should learn English too.
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But, Vampy, equal treatment should be given no matter what language one speaks or how well they speak it. Equality is a matter of respect for differences, not of assimilation. That is like saying "If black people want to be treated equally, they should act more like white people."
 
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