Literacy of Deaf People

[Jiro]

I mean people who were raised using the oral system but for some reason they never mastered it. So until someone cottoned on to that they were left with no language skills to speak of. Even oral 'successess' have some problems. I know from my time at PHU and my deafblind friend Kerry. Her dad was very big on the oral only way of doing things. She could speak but her comprehention skills left a lot to be desired.

yes but written and spoken language are different - even for same language. you can actually be a great speaker but a horrible writer. and vice versa

 

[dreama]

yes but written and spoken language are different - even for same language. you can actually be a great speaker but be horrible at writing.

I agree totally!

Aren't we saying the same thing more or less? Maybe I'm not explaining myself well enough?

 

[Jiro]

I agree totally!

Aren't we saying the same thing more or less? Maybe I'm not explaining myself well enough?

I perfectly understand you but it's where we disagree on same issue. Let me clarify - You said that poor written english skill is due to failed oralism for deaf. But I disagreed with that because written and spoken are different skill.

 

[Hear Again]

yes but written and spoken language are different - even for same language. you can actually be a great speaker but be horrible at writing.

...and the reverse is true as well.

 

[Jiro]

...and the reverse is true as well.

I just corrected my grammar

 

[Hear Again]

The deaf people with the worst grammar tend to be oral failures.

that's quite an unfair generalization you're making there, dreama. i was born with a mild hearing loss that progressed to moderately-severe by age 15 and i had absolutely no difficulties with the english language.

 

[Hear Again]

I just corrected my grammar

no problem.

 

[Rio]

This is just my opinion, English is one difficult language to tackle. It just takes practice to acquire English grammar and spelling. The more you read the better the grammar and spelling improvments in one's writing abilities. I do run across words that I never seen before, it gives me a chance to look it up in the dictionary. Making new discoveries excites me as an interpreter to put those words in context in my work if and when I do hear it at a later time

practice, practice, read, read,

 

[Zaicate]

Thanks for typing out the transcript for deaf-blind members, Jiro. I truly appreciate it I would have gotten on but boyfriend was on so I had to wait for my turn on the computer (we only have one computer until I save enough money to get a computer of my own)

The creator of that video is my ex husband and he do not have any anger toward D/deaf culture or community at all. He just hate to see grammar errors or that kind of thing, I get corrected whenever I write to him to communicate with him on my grammar and English errors which is almost all of the time. But it really helped me out by making me work harder to improve so he won't find anything wrong with my writing. So why judge him based on just that video and make your quick judgments about him (like him being angry at deaf community when he is not and that kind of thing)?

Granted, the little 'joke' at the end of the clip is amusing (to me but again, I have lived with him for 5 years so my sense of humor is warped) and could have done in more tasteful manner. And there were TWO songs playing in background (I forgot the names but yeah.. two songs)

As for the drug abuse thing, he was using the couple of people he met (through me) as an example, he wasn't basing the entire deaf community on the example he did (the drug-abuse, government teat-suckler one) *shrugs*

Why should he sugarcoat his words when he want to give his advice to someone? (which is very rare because he is very anti-social person) Personally I can see everybody's point and agree with some aspects of those posts.

@ hohDougRN: your comment "The longer Im deaf the less I care about grammatical differences or cuturally accepted jargon" irks me big time because english, grammatical differences is VERY important when you are in the real world because your job might require some writing or communicating via paper and pen. Each one of us are the Representative of the deaf community in the real world and whatever we do or say (or attempt to do or say) reflect on us AND the deaf community. But again, I am a bookworm and english is always part of my daily life so I couldn't fathom not caring about it at all. So I am trying to understand why you are saying that.. can you explain more?

@VamPyroX: definitely agreed.

@shel90: Agreed. But the poor foundation of english eduaction CAN be strengthened with some motivational, determination and more remedial classes at the better schools.
And reading books can really help out because it teach you things subconsciously.. even funny short stories can really teach you about the English, grammar and things related to the topic. So yes, I do encourage D/deaf people to take 30 minutes out of their daily lives to sit down to read a book or write something.

@Berry: You are jumping to conclusion and making quick judgments without getting more information about it. Yes, there is illiterate hearing peoples out there but it is not a point.. the point the OP is trying to make is that D/deaf people need to pick up a book, or go to english class or TRY to make effort to type properly (not necessarily STIFF properly) instead of letting their english capacity slip (and he knows that every one of D/deaf people is CAPABLE of writing without mangling the english language. He is very blunt (maybe too blunt for his own good) and like I say before, he doesn't sugarcoat things and will tell the person what he is REALLY thinking.
As for the drug thing *points up to her comment above her replies*

Don't feel sorry for me, Berry My boyfriend might be brash and crude but he does care. One of his huge pet peeves is net speaking because he thinks its stupid and lazy way to mangle the english language and lower the entire community's IQ level.

@ Jiro: Confusing educational system, you say? I disagree with you there. The educational system are always trying to find a way to make things more easier and clear. Some people might need some one-on-one tutoring so they could get more out of it (nothing wrong with that, I had some when I was in elementary school and it benefited me greatly). Like some people in here said, there is various reasons for some AD'ers lack of english skills so who knows?
The point is that it is not hard to take 30 minutes out of your daily life (which some people use to surf this forum :P) to read a book or write something. The entire point of the video is my boyfriend trying to tell the D/deaf community to pick up a book or pen and DO something about it.. there is no offense meant to be made.

Chill.. take in deeeeep breath because this is just a debate (and opinions because I am curious about them) so don't get all twisted up about it

 

[jillio]

Thanks for typing out the transcript for deaf-blind members, Jiro. I truly appreciate it I would have gotten on but boyfriend was on so I had to wait for my turn on the computer (we only have one computer until I save enough money to get a computer of my own)

The creator of that video is my ex husband and he do not have any anger toward D/deaf culture or community at all. He just hate to see grammar errors or that kind of thing, I get corrected whenever I write to him to communicate with him on my grammar and English errors which is almost all of the time. But it really helped me out by making me work harder to improve so he won't find anything wrong with my writing. So why judge him based on just that video and make your quick judgments about him (like him being angry at deaf community when he is not and that kind of thing)?

Granted, the little 'joke' at the end of the clip is amusing (to me but again, I have lived with him for 5 years so my sense of humor is warped) and could have done in more tasteful manner. And there were TWO songs playing in background (I forgot the names but yeah.. two songs)

As for the drug abuse thing, he was using the couple of people he met (through me) as an example, he wasn't basing the entire deaf community on the example he did (the drug-abuse, government teat-suckler one) *shrugs*

Why should he sugarcoat his words when he want to give his advice to someone? (which is very rare because he is very anti-social person) Personally I can see everybody's point and agree with some aspects of those posts.

@ hohDougRN: your comment "The longer Im deaf the less I care about grammatical differences or cuturally accepted jargon" irks me big time because english, grammatical differences is VERY important when you are in the real world because your job might require some writing or communicating via paper and pen. Each one of us are the Representative of the deaf community in the real world and whatever we do or say (or attempt to do or say) reflect on us AND the deaf community. But again, I am a bookworm and english is always part of my daily life so I couldn't fathom not caring about it at all. So I am trying to understand why you are saying that.. can you explain more?

@VamPyroX: definitely agreed.

@shel90: Agreed. But the poor foundation of english eduaction CAN be strengthened with some motivational, determination and more remedial classes at the better schools.
And reading books can really help out because it teach you things subconsciously.. even funny short stories can really teach you about the English, grammar and things related to the topic. So yes, I do encourage D/deaf people to take 30 minutes out of their daily lives to sit down to read a book or write something.

@Berry: You are jumping to conclusion and making quick judgments without getting more information about it. Yes, there is illiterate hearing peoples out there but it is not a point.. the point the OP is trying to make is that D/deaf people need to pick up a book, or go to english class or TRY to make effort to type properly (not necessarily STIFF properly) instead of letting their english capacity slip (and he knows that every one of D/deaf people is CAPABLE of writing without mangling the english language. He is very blunt (maybe too blunt for his own good) and like I say before, he doesn't sugarcoat things and will tell the person what he is REALLY thinking.
As for the drug thing *points up to her comment above her replies*

Don't feel sorry for me, Berry My boyfriend might be brash and crude but he does care. One of his huge pet peeves is net speaking because he thinks its stupid and lazy way to mangle the english language and lower the entire community's IQ level.

@ Jiro: Confusing educational system, you say? I disagree with you there. The educational system are always trying to find a way to make things more easier and clear. Some people might need some one-on-one tutoring so they could get more out of it (nothing wrong with that, I had some when I was in elementary school and it benefited me greatly). Like some people in here said, there is various reasons for some AD'ers lack of english skills so who knows?
The point is that it is not hard to take 30 minutes out of your daily life (which some people use to surf this forum :P) to read a book or write something. The entire point of the video is my boyfriend trying to tell the D/deaf community to pick up a book or pen and DO something about it.. there is no offense meant to be made.

Chill.. take in deeeeep breath because this is just a debate (and opinions because I am curious about them) so don't get all twisted up about it

His "advise" did not come across as advise. It came across as criticism. Especially since no one asked for his advise. I implore you, oh maker of the video, pick up a book and learn a little multiculturalism. This is just another example of the profound judgement of the hearing against the deaf.

 

[luxdormiens]

The more you read the better the grammar and spelling improvments in one's writing abilities. I do run across words that I never seen before, it gives me a chance to look it up in the dictionary. Making new discoveries excites me as an interpreter to put those words in context in my work if and when I do hear it at a later time

I agree. I love reading, and I read all the time. I've learned to develop an eye for what's good writing and tried to emulate that in my writing. I think it was an interest in being a writer that drove me to read grammar books from the library, to read books about other writers, books that explain how writers write, and to read about poetry and how others use it.

That said, what's important is people's attitude toward languages, cultures, and clarity in general. People who love languages and their powers will strive to be as clear as possible, to empathize with the readers and see things from their perspectives. They will think about how the readers might react, and revise their drafts accordingly. It's also, I think, learning a third or fourth language will help people understand the underlying structure of communication. I've only learned Spanish, but someday I will learn another language.

 

[Zaicate]

Jillo, any advice videos you see on youtube are mostly not asked for. At least he cared enough to sit down and make that video to encourage people to pick up a book and read or sit down and write in journal or write something.

ASL =/= Written English Language (which is a problem for MANY of D/deaf people. They think that whatever sentences they signed can be taken as direct verbatim (word for word) on the paper is wrong because ASL is a visual language while WEL (Written English Language) is.. well.. written.)
You can scream that everybody have different educational levels, reasons or whatever for their incapability to write WEL without mangling it until you become blue in the face but it won't change the fact that it will be OTHER people that reads it will suffer from headache of trying to understand what the person is trying to say.
Do you see what I am trying to say here?

and again, do not jump to conclusion about my boyfriend being clueless about D/deaf community or culture because he is well-knowledgeable in it (because I am profound Deaf and lived (currently and in past) with him for 5 years so I have been immersing him with Deaf-related information and etc.

It pisses me off when people make those kind of judgments about my boyfriend when they don't even know the details about his knowledge of the said subject.

 

[jillio]

Jillo, any advice videos you see on youtube are mostly not asked for. At least he cared enough to sit down and make that video to encourage people to pick up a book and read or sit down and write in journal or write something.

ASL =/= Written English Language (which is a problem for MANY of D/deaf people. They think that whatever sentences they signed can be taken as direct verbatim (word for word) on the paper is wrong because ASL is a visual language while WEL (Written English Language) is.. well.. written.)
You can scream that everybody have different educational levels, reasons or whatever for their incapability to write WEL without mangling it until you become blue in the face but it won't change the fact that it will be OTHER people that reads it will suffer from headache of trying to understand what the person is trying to say.
Do you see what I am trying to say here?

I see exactly what you are trying to say. Do you see that I am saying that posting such a critical video of the deaf community is insensitive to say the least, and offensive to say the most. Unsolicited "advise" is never well received.

If he has difficulty understanding the posts on AD, then perhaps he would be better off not reading them.

And, he might want to check the legal status of using a quote in a video for which he did not obtain permission.

 

[Zaicate]

I see exactly what you are trying to say. Do you see that I am saying that posting such a critical video of the deaf community is insensitive to say the least, and offensive to say the most. Unsolicited "advise" is never well received.

If he has difficulty understanding the posts on AD, then perhaps he would be better off not reading them.

And, he might want to check the legal status of using a quote in a video for which he did not obtain permission.

It is youtube, he have all of the rights to make any kind of videos and post them up. I can list some of the videos that I object to but I can't do anything because its within THEIR rights to make those videos and post them. Reactions varies. Some will agree with his advice, some (like you and some others in here) will object to it.

Maybe he is making effort to get more involved in Deaf things I am doing, ever thought about that? He rarely go to this site because of the literature thing. EVERYBODY have the right to be here and read the posts.

And actually, he didn't name the authors of posts so there is no legal situation involved. Plus it's not illegal to take something that is readily available to anyone not logged in and use it in criticism or parody. It's called the Fair Use Policy. Google it.

 

[jillio]

I agree. I love reading, and I read all the time. I've learned to develop an eye for what's good writing and tried to emulate that in my writing. I think it was an interest in being a writer that drove me to read grammar books from the library, to read books about other writers, books that explain how writers write, and to read about poetry and how others use it.

That said, what's important is people's attitude toward languages, cultures, and clarity in general. People who love languages and their powers will strive to be as clear as possible, to empathize with the readers and see things from their perspectives. They will think about how the readers might react, and revise their drafts accordingly. It's also, I think, learning a third or fourth language will help people understand the underlying structure of communication. I've only learned Spanish, but someday I will learn another language.

That is something the author of this video failed to do.

 

[naisho]

Took a look at the video, read the first 10 replies or so, skimmed the rest.

Regardless of what I think about the video -- I think -- or actually I KNOW the user is on the forum right now. I prefer to know more about the user than the video itself. Because the person that posts it, has the most influence.

What seems to be known about him:
- Definitely frequents our forum. If you're reading this right now, might want to watch out. I find that I like to play detective in mysteries, I'll give you a head start with a run for your money.
- Plays/ed A LOT of videogames.
- States he is 28 years old. I am assume it is a he, but I may be wrong.
- Likes Hentai/Anime
- Likes Cats and finds them cute.
- Has understanding of video encoding lingo, as it is shown throughout his clips. Probably understands moderate computer usage at minimum.
- Quote quid pro quo "As long as there are humans, there will be jealousy. As long as there is jealousy, there will be drama."
- Definitely has another handle or alias. I will find out should I get more free time, but not now.

- Self proclaimed die hard gamer for a game called Darkness.
-- This wiki list should be fine to refer to for "The Darkness" videogame. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Darkness_(video_game) the plot of the VG seems to focus on an emo world, or much rather just kill everything that's going crazy.

With all this info, I have to say. I don't take the original feed seriously.

 

[Zaicate]

Naisho, I am quite impressed with the collection of information you got on my boyfriend (not going to say which is right or wrong )
But he don't frequent the site, actually. He was looking for good examples for his video and thought of this site so he checked it out (without logging on, mind you because apparently we can do that.. we can surf AllDeaf without having to sign in on our accounts here).

 

[naisho]

Naisho, I am quite impressed with the collection of information you got on my boyfriend (not going to say which is right or wrong )
But he don't frequent the site, actually. He was looking for good examples for his video and thought of this site so he checked it out (without logging on, mind you because apparently we can do that.. we can surf AllDeaf without having to sign in on our accounts here).

In that case, since you have publicly testified I'll leave the investigation alone.

I think that although a good amount of his words are missiles that hit their target dead on the spot - I'm sure someone has already stated it in this thread, but I'm damn hungry and don't want to read through the rest of the 30+ posts.

I personally believe he did echo much of the deaf community's dirt under the carpet. But why is the teapot calling the kettle black? Hearing people are just as guilty of doing this as well. Actually, hearing people have the best out of our world since it is the majority; and yet often they cannot make full use of their "grammar" over us by the reins. Only those that want ridicule to, tend to do it.

Want proof? Just hit up myspace.com for plenty of evidence or yahoo answers. It can't be denied because, for one, there is plenty of substantiating evidence out there that non-deaf/HH people cannot speak coherently albeit string two sentences together in proper format.

I've monitored and watched conversations of satiric ludicriousity, that it's just amazing how much a person without a hearing disability, or one that doesn't seem to have a disability rather, make poor use of his/her ability to talk or type coherent sentences, yet alone purposely force themselves to miss-word it.
"HAY guIz LoL toDaI i weNt n' got sum chickun 4rm KFC n' OMG it wuz guuuuuud"
"sup mah homies u all b mah peeps lets go kick'n it out there and a beer at BJs yah!? alwight lessgo!"

Point and case rested. You want deaf people to fix up their inconsistencies, hearing people ought to fix it as well. Then come back and start asking us to straighten up.

There are always negative conceptual stuff to anything and there are always people who tend to find the time to point them out, for no other purpose than being a skeptic who has no desire other than siphoning off the self esteem of others.

Sorry, but the schadenfreude force is high with this one. Incase it's not in his vocab, it just means people who like to earn pleasure off another's misfortune.

PS. Would you also call it reasonable to go about harping on international students or people coming from abroad, who speak extremely fragmented english?

 

[Desumon]

 

[Hear Again]

would someone mind describing the pic that desumon posted? thanks.