L.A. riots: Good Samaritan remembers his scary truck-driver rescue

[Steinhauer]

I should remind you that it was the democrats that implemented this failure of a policy.

Why did you not highlight the fact that on average there are 250 incidents of profiling on average per year in this unnamed Yale researcher's research, that all have been cleared? With the exception of this one officer, it would seem like people like to play the race card to get out of a ticket/jail time (but that is just a guess).

 

[Foxrac]

I should remind you that it was the democrats that implemented this failure of a policy.

Why did you not highlight the fact that on average there are 250 incidents of profiling on average per year in this unnamed Yale researcher's research, that all have been cleared? With the exception of this one officer, it would seem like people like to play the race card to get out of a ticket/jail time (but that is just a guess).

Love to blame on democrats? :roll:

 

[Steinhauer]

Love to blame on democrats? :roll:

It was in response to another "it's Bush's fault" psychobabble.

The two points, of course, are political - but so was the link Jiro posted.

I still stand by my statements that this is not a racist problem - it is something much deeper - I think it has more to do with who is in power and who can push all the power play buttons.


I know this may seem a little odd ... but if Rodney King had been white, the same individuals that thought he deserved to get a beat down, would have thought the same thing if Rodney King had been white - race is not a factor - actions are.

 

[Jiro]

I should remind you that it was the democrats that implemented this failure of a policy.

Why did you not highlight the fact that on average there are 250 incidents of profiling on average per year in this unnamed Yale researcher's research, that all have been cleared? With the exception of this one officer, it would seem like people like to play the race card to get out of a ticket/jail time (but that is just a guess).

because we do not prosecute something that's abstract.... and now.... Officer Smith got caught. just because all but one has been cleared doesn't mean there's nothing going on.

Whether perception or reality, about 250 formal allegations are brought against officers each year. The fact that all the allegations, until Smith, were cleared was due to the murky nature of the allegation, police officials have said. Because profiling cases hinge on what officers are thinking in the moment they make a stop, it was all but impossible to determine whether they were motivated by a racial bias unless they confess, officials said. "We cannot climb inside the head of the officers," was a familiar Bratton refrain.

btw - this "unnamed Yale researcher's research"... here's an info - "A Study of Racially Disparate Outcomes in the Los Angeles Police Department"

This disparity in the likelihood of being stopped is not driven by a policy of assigning more police to minority neighborhoods. Indeed, the racial disparity in stop rates was higher in non-minority neighborhoods than in minority neighborhoods. For example, regressions, controlling for the crime rate, estimated that the stop rate disparity for African Americans was 3,400 stops higher in RDs where blacks and Hispanics were less than one-third of the residents relative to RDs where blacks and Hispanics were more than two-thirds of the residents. See Figure 1.

There is some evidence that stops by minority officers produced smaller racial disparities than stops by non-minority officers. The disparities for stopped African Americans were often smaller when the stops were conducted by African American officers. For example, the racial disparity in arrests disfavoring stopped African Americans fell from 27% with regard to non-minority officers to 18% when an African American was the stopping officer. And African American officers were nearly 20% less likely than non-minority officers to force African Americans to participate in a ―no action‖ stop. These officer race disparities were statistically significant. The relatively better treatment that stopped African Americans experienced when stopped by African American officers versus non-minority officers raises concerns of racially biased policing. See Tables 11 and 12.

The Report’s approach implies that it would not be problematic if the police only engaged in racial profiling in certain divisions. The implicit idea seems to be that a department engaged in racially biased policing should produce a consistent pattern of racial disparities across all divisions (and possibly across all races). But policy makers could be concerned about unjustified racial disparities that only occur in a subset of divisions. Even the possibility that some divisions would show an estimated racial disparity disfavoring whites relative to blacks or Hispanics should not absolve the police force from a finding that there were unjustified disparities disfavoring minorities in other divisions.

In the absence of information about criminality of racial groups, an alternative benchmark that has been used in other racial disparity testing is to investigate the behavior of minority officers. Minority officers themselves might be subject to racial bias against their own race. But if minority officers are likely to show less conscious or unconscious bias with regard to suspects of the same race, then a discrepancy in the police behaviors of minority and non-minority officers could provide evidence of unjustified racial disparity. Tables 11 and 12 provide an analysis of racial disparities controlling for officer race using the controls from the ―Unrestricted Model‖ discussed above.

Table 11 shows, for example, that with regard to arresting decisions, the racial disparities for minority officers are systematically lower than that of non-minority officers. Non-black officers were 26.9%
more likely to arrest stopped blacks, but black officers were only 17.7% more likely to arrest stopped blacks. Similarly we find that non-Hispanic officers were 31.1% more likely to arrest stopped Hispanics, but Hispanic officers were only 24.5% more likely to arrest stopped Hispanics. This evidence of differential policing behavior by minority and non-minority officers is further evidence that at least some portion of the racial disparity is unjustified.

 

[Steinhauer]

because we do not prosecute something that's abstract.... and now.... Officer Smith got caught. just because all but one has been cleared doesn't mean there's nothing going on.



btw - this "unnamed Yale researcher's research"... here's an info - "A Study of Racially Disparate Outcomes in the Los Angeles Police Department"

Are you saying the program imposed upon the LAPD by an all seeing all powerful Democracy is perhaps ..... flawed?

Maybe nothing really was going on.

 

[saywhatkid]

I should remind you that it was the democrats that implemented this failure of a policy.

Geez, what took you so long to get a dig in on the Dems? I expected this about 15 pages ago.

 

[saywhatkid]

Are you saying the program imposed upon the LAPD by an all seeing all powerful Democracy is perhaps ..... flawed?

Maybe nothing really was going on.

Here is where you set the hook...*sound of Stein gathering up all his anti-Dem diatribes from bloggers*

 

[Jiro]

It was in response to another "it's Bush's fault" psychobabble.

huh? do you have reading comprehension? perhaps I should make my post much shorter for you to read easily?

I didn't say this mess in police department is Bush's fault. I said GWB recognized the gravity of this problem and took action on it. His effort was applaudable.

The two points, of course, are political - but so was the link Jiro posted.

ah... of course! everything is political to you. you conveniently are ignoring the academic studies and independent finding.

I still stand by my statements that this is not a racist problem - it is something much deeper - I think it has more to do with who is in power and who can push all the power play buttons.

so... what is it? any conspiracy theory? any plausible explanation? anything at all?

I know this may seem a little odd ... but if Rodney King had been white, the same individuals that thought he deserved to get a beat down, would have thought the same thing if Rodney King had been white - race is not a factor - actions are.

ok.

 

[Jiro]

Are you saying the program imposed upon the LAPD by an all seeing all powerful Democracy is perhaps ..... flawed?

Maybe nothing really was going on.

I see you are just arguing for the sake of argument and you are not interested in engaging an intellectual discussion despite of independent analysis, academic studies, and peer-reviewed source that I've given you.

oh well. this was a rather waste of my time.

 

[saywhatkid]

huh? do you have reading comprehension? perhaps I should make my post much shorter for you to read easily?

I didn't say this mess in police department is Bush's fault. I said GWB recognized the gravity of this problem.


ah... of course! everything is political to you. you conveniently are ignoring the academic studies and independent finding.


so... what is it? any conspiracy theory? any plausible explanation? anything at all?


ok.

When I see how much he blames the Dem/Libs for all that is evil, I am surprised he has not gone postal at the local voting places.

 

[saywhatkid]

I see you are just arguing for the sake of argument and you are not interested in engaging an intellectual discussion despite of independent analysis, academic studies, and peer-reviewed source that I've given you.

oh well. this was a rather waste of my time.

He just posts more anti-Dem, anti-Liberal, anti-Obama stuff to remind us of his stoic views.

 

[Foxrac]

It was in response to another "it's Bush's fault" psychobabble.

The two points, of course, are political - but so was the link Jiro posted.

I still stand by my statements that this is not a racist problem - it is something much deeper - I think it has more to do with who is in power and who can push all the power play buttons.


I know this may seem a little odd ... but if Rodney King had been white, the same individuals that thought he deserved to get a beat down, would have thought the same thing if Rodney King had been white - race is not a factor - actions are.

Ok, I think you should be more smarter than being counterattack or blame on different parties.

I don't think it is really democrat's issue but I know some police officers are strongly republican supporter.

 

[Steinhauer]

I see you are just arguing for the sake of argument and you are not interested in engaging an intellectual discussion despite of independent analysis, academic studies, and peer-reviewed source that I've given you.

oh well. this was a rather waste of my time.

Have you provided any information disputing the Cato Institute's findings on Affirmative Action and how it is a hindrance to minorities more than a help?

I saw you going in circles there for a while ... I got of the merry go round.

Added this link to answer your statement and implications that "some other things must be going on for over 200 incidents involving racism to be cleared" - we both know what you meant:

http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id315.htm

The Tawana Brawley case was quickly seized upon by a trio of black activists who viewed it as a means by which to demonstrate that the police and judicial system were racist and corrupt. Attorney Alton H. Maddox had been beaten by a white mob as a teenager in Newnan, Georgia; confrontational and virulently anti-white, Maddox seemed at times less interested in justice than in the potential for conflict that high profile cases like Tawana Brawley's provided. C. Vernon Mason, another New York attorney, also used cases to drum up publicity and address wider issues. Al Sharpton was a flamboyant Pentecostal preacher who spent $2,000 a year for hair care at Brooklyn's Prima Donna Beauty Salon; his hunger for celebrity caused some to question both his motives and methods. Maddox, Mason and Sharpton had joined forces before, in the Howard Beach case a year earlier. Several black men had been accosted by a white mob and one of them, Michael Griffith, was chased out onto a highway where he was struck by a vehicle and killed. In previous cases, Maddox and Mason had used the tactic of non-cooperation, refusing to let their clients testify in an effort to facilitate a "miscarriage of justice" in which the perpetrator(s) would get off. In this way they could heighten the outrage of the black community and claim the result proved that the judicial system discriminated against blacks.

 

[Steinhauer]

Ok, I think you should be more smarter than being counterattack or blame on different parties.

I don't think it is really democrat's issue but I know some police officers are strongly republican supporter.

The link Jiro posted was a democrat party report. They championed it. They passed it through the house.

It was not unbiased. That was my whole point.

 

[Jiro]

Have you provided any information disputing the Cato Institute's findings on Affirmative Action and how it is a hindrance to minorities more than a help?

I saw you going in circles there for a while ... I got of the merry go round.

Added this link to answer your statement and implications that "some other things must be going on for over 200 incidents involving racism to be cleared" - we both know what you meant:

29. The Tawana Brawley Hoax

huh? going in circle? I was waiting for you to answer my question. I asked you in Post #419 regarding Cato Institute's so-called finding.

I have given you a few peer-reviewed sources that support my statements... and you have not given any that backs your statements. and you did not bother discussing about peer-reviewed sources I found for you so why should I bother? (btw - yes I've already found peer-reviewed source that debunked your source but I didn't bother posting it because I just realized that you're just wasting my time and arguing for the sake of argument)

Added this link to answer your statement and implications that "some other things must be going on for over 200 incidents involving racism to be cleared" - we both know what you meant:

29. The Tawana Brawley Hoax

I find it quite comical and amusing that you continue to find links unrelated to LAPD. All the sources I've given you are specifically about LAPD. Focus Focus Focus!

 

[Jiro]

and I have a big question for you - the Cato Institute source you gave me..... it's about affirmative action at university...

this is related to LAPD...... how?

 

[Steinhauer]

huh? going in circle? I was waiting for you to answer my question. I asked you in Post #419 regarding Cato Institute's so-called finding.

I have given you a few peer-reviewed sources that support my statements... and you have not given any that backs your statements. and you did not bother discussing about peer-reviewed sources I found for you so why should I bother? (btw - yes I've already found peer-reviewed source that debunked your source but I didn't bother posting it because I just realized that you're just wasting my time and arguing for the sake of argument)


I find it quite comical and amusing that you continue to find links unrelated to LAPD. All the sources I've given you are specifically about LAPD. Focus Focus Focus!

You also made references to how the LAPD investigation created the need for "affirmative action" - which was the result of the findings of the investigation - no?

I am glad this amuses you. I find it quite serious.

Have you ever heard of the Center for Democratic Renewal (CDR) or even the National Council for Churches (NCC)?

What about the Rev. Mac Charles Jones?

Do you not think it is important to at least review the type of rhetoric that was used to get such a large angry mob to nearly destroy L.A.?

 

[Jiro]

You also made references to how the LAPD investigation created the need for "affirmative action" - which was the result of the findings of the investigation - no?

where exactly in the report did it say that? please tell me the page number.

I am glad this amuses you. I find it quite serious.

so do I. you're making a mockery out of this and you're wasting my time.

Have you ever heard of the Center for Democratic Renewal (CDR) or even the National Council for Churches (NCC)?

What about the Rev. Mac Charles Jones?

no I have not heard of them. what about them?

Do you not think it is important to at least review the type of rhetoric that was used to get such a large angry mob to nearly destroy L.A.?

that's precisely what this fact-finding investigation was for. since then, LAPD was monitored by federal oversight and several leading experts were hired by LA/LAPD to create training courses and policy to ensure that it will not happen again.

btw - I'm confused. a rhetoric that caused a large angry mob to nearly destroy LA? what rhetoric? wasn't LA riot caused by officers' acquittal?

 

[Steinhauer]

I find it quite comical that you had to go out of the way to find one case just to invalidate other case. It's a damn shame that you're so blind to what's really happening in here. It was a national problem and it was federally and scientifically recognized.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/02/08/home/rodney-report.html




Officer Powell and Sergeant Koon are just as bad as thugs who beat up Reginald Denny. Both cases were the result of racial injustice.

Do you not see how you are twisting facts around? Officer Koon and Officer Powell were attacked while apprehending a criminal while in performance of their duties - they were not rioters targetting people of a specific race that were OBEYING THE LAW, then dragging them out of their vehicles to bash their brains in specifically because of the color of their skin.

Quite a distinct difference you seem to be having trouble grasping.

 

[Steinhauer]

where exactly in the report did it say that? please tell me the page number.


so do I. you're making a mockery out of this and you're wasting my time.


no I have not heard of them. what about them?


that's precisely what this fact-finding investigation was for. since then, LAPD was monitored by federal oversight and several leading experts were hired by LA/LAPD to create training courses and policy to ensure that it will not happen again.

btw - I'm confused. a rhetoric that caused a large angry mob to nearly destroy LA? what rhetoric? wasn't LA riot caused by officers' acquittal?

No, the LA riots were caused by hateful racial rhetoric. Why were stores looted? Why were people beaten, killed, and maimed specifically for being white? People who had absolutely nothing at all to do with the Rodney King verdict?

Because of hateful racial rhetoric ... that's why.