KristinaB's Garage Conversion

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Here's the latest in this continuing saga.

Now, after almost 1 year, the Town Hall is saying our plans are not good. They claim we are required to have a minimum of 1750 square feet. Our contractor is fighting that since I dropped of the first draft of the building plans last April and they plainly stated on the front page in bold letters and numbers, that we were having 1344 square feet. Why could they not tell us then?

Well, contractor and General Contractor are meeting with the Town Council and the Inspector to apply for a "variance code change". IF it is still denied, then the General Contractor and the Engineer will call in their attorney to fight this since we were not told the info at the beginning. I am hoping it won't go that far. The Town Hall is already frantic since our contractor and the general contractor have already gone to the County Planning and Zoning.

Quite frankly, I have lost all faith and trust in this Town Hall and Council. It is just too bad that we have to stay in this area and are getting the property and garage for nothing. MIL just gave them to us. She put her house up for collateral for the loan to do the conversion. Our doors, windows and floors have already been purchased and delivered. The Septic, A/C, Electrician and Plumber have already gotten deposits. We have paid for the surveys, plans, title change and Lord knows what else, not to mention the tree trimming and cutting.
 
KristinaB said:
Here's the latest in this continuing saga.

Now, after almost 1 year, the Town Hall is saying our plans are not good. They claim we are required to have a minimum of 1750 square feet. Our contractor is fighting that since I dropped of the first draft of the building plans last April and they plainly stated on the front page in bold letters and numbers, that we were having 1344 square feet. Why could they not tell us then?

Well, contractor and General Contractor are meeting with the Town Council and the Inspector to apply for a "variance code change". IF it is still denied, then the General Contractor and the Engineer will call in their attorney to fight this since we were not told the info at the beginning. I am hoping it won't go that far. The Town Hall is already frantic since our contractor and the general contractor have already gone to the County Planning and Zoning.

Quite frankly, I have lost all faith and trust in this Town Hall and Council. It is just too bad that we have to stay in this area and are getting the property and garage for nothing. MIL just gave them to us. She put her house up for collateral for the loan to do the conversion. Our doors, windows and floors have already been purchased and delivered. The Septic, A/C, Electrician and Plumber have already gotten deposits. We have paid for the surveys, plans, title change and Lord knows what else, not to mention the tree trimming and cutting.
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Wow...one set-back after another....sure hope it all works out somehow.
 
Oh boy, that sounds not so good news. I knew that it was coming because many contractors use white lie for profit. The worse part, a few contractors could have lied that they got the approval from the town hall which means that they never went to the town hall at all. They get away from their problem. Better Business Bureau (BBB) gets money from the contractors so that the BBB can protect them. No shit. BBB is almost no good to help us as customers.

I am not surprised about the zone because of copycat in many towns for a bigger value and more collect property taxes. Usually, the town hall inspectors lie some people for not bring up a grandfather clause. I am afraid that the grandfather clause might not be successful because the town inspector is almost like a police. That's not fair for everyone including me.

Maybe, your main house and your "garage" building that could be added the size of the square feet because they are on the same property. That might work for you. That might shut the inspector's mouth and process your work.
 
webexplorer said:
Oh boy, that sounds not so good news. I knew that it was coming because many contractors use white lie for profit. The worse part, a few contractors could have lied that they got the approval from the town hall which means that they never went to the town hall at all. They get away from their problem. Better Business Bureau (BBB) gets money from the contractors so that the BBB can protect them. No shit. BBB is almost no good to help us as customers.
This is false information. A business will pay a fee in they become members and they can only become members after answering any and all complaints. I was a complaint specialist for the BBB here in my city for 6 years.


I am not surprised about the zone because of copycat in many towns for a bigger value and more collect property taxes. Usually, the town hall inspectors lie some people for not bring up a grandfather clause. I am afraid that the grandfather clause might not be successful because the town inspector is almost like a police. That's not fair for everyone including me.

Maybe, your main house and your "garage" building that could be added the size of the square feet because they are on the same property. That might work for you. That might shut the inspector's mouth and process your work.
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Well, the house with carport is on one lot and the garage is on another lot next door. There is about 150-200 yards between the two buildings. There is no logical way to do that without building an "enclosed hallway" across the yard. The plans are, if nothing else, we will have the back patio closed in as a Florida Room or even an extension of the kitchen. That patio is planned to be 20 feet by 10 feet. There is also talk of adding a front closed porch if needed. That will mean cutting up the driveway though. General Contractor also suggested putting an extension for son's room as a second floor. We will see. It's all in the money. Contractor has been working with us all along. It is the Town Hall and this specific Inspector that are the problems. The people in the County Building Inspector's office have said, that if we still have problems, they will move in and override the Town Hall.
 
Wow, what a headache!

I hope this gets resolved soon for you without any additional costs or delays.

Hang in there. :hug:
 
KristinaB
Do you ever sleep?:)With all this going on I would imagine it is hard to turn off your brain at night.
Maybe I missed it. One of your posts I read, said that the house had to have a minimum of 1700 sq.feet. Did you get that resolved? My hubby is a Civil Engineer here in CA. He works on earthquake retrofitting and water resources. He always has stories about the not so good contractors. Good luck!!! I am excited to see it finished.
 
Angle1989 said:
KristinaB
Do you ever sleep?:)With all this going on I would imagine it is hard to turn off your brain at night.
Maybe I missed it. One of your posts I read, said that the house had to have a minimum of 1700 sq.feet. Did you get that resolved? My hubby is a Civil Engineer here in CA. He works on earthquake retrofitting and water resources. He always has stories about the not so good contractors. Good luck!!! I am excited to see it finished.
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My sleep is messed up royally, but not due to the house so much. I have been diagnosed with a condition related to all of this. It is my fibromyalgia that keeps me from sleeping.

Now, as to the house, the Town Hall claims that we must have 1750 sq ft for a 4 bedroom house. The county says we have a proper building plan and they don't see a problem. None of the problems we are running into are due to the fault of the contractor. I'm not sure why people keep assuming that. This contractor has been fighting the Town Hall regarding our rights. I have checked this contractor and his general contractor out with both the BBB, Consumer Affairs and the Contractor's board along with planning and zoning and the County building inspectors. They have had no complaints at all. They have never had a problem with inspections except for 1 that we were told about by the contractor and the employee responsible was fired and the contractor was fined. All for not hooking up the safety chain on the scaffolding when preparing the site for an elevator.

As for resolving the sq ft issue, the contractor and general contractor are meeting with the Town Council and the inspector Thursday of this week. 3/8.
 
What a disappointing setback. So you are saying plan B is to add more space to satisfy the bureaucrats if plan A to fight to keep existing plan ?

Keep pluggin away- eventually you will get there, hopefully without paying an arm and leg to do this.
 
For the latest in this continuing saga:

Contractor, General Contractor and Engineer met with the Town Council for building, which included: Mayor, Vice-Mayor (Who is an A/C contractor), and 3 councilmen (1 General Contractor, 1 Electrician, & 1 A/C Contractor).

They claim to have told us of the square footage requirements in the beginning, but do admit to not having proof and that everything was verbal. They say that there is a 12 page application for Variance change and once turned in, those 5 people will be the ones approving or denying. At that point, the General Contractor asked "How likely is it to be approved?" HE was told that there was not much of an chance. They claim to have voted about 5-6 years ago to have the square footage requirement changed after this one neighborhood was built. That neighborhood's homes are all 1200 Sq Foot. The council feels that those homes are lowering the property values due to their size. So, with that knowledge, my guys then did what they could, but got nowhere. We met with contractor a little while ago (before dinner) and found all this out. Basically, he wants to enlarge and move the back patio space and close it in like an addition. IT would be classified as a "playroom" and we would not need a closet or bathroom added. It would be the least expensive way to go. The ceilings will be 8 foot whereas the house is 10-11 foot. It would have 2 windows and 3 ceiling fans with lights and a door to get outside. The kitchen door would open to this playroom. My daughter will switch rooms with hubby and I so that down the road (a few years) we can knock out the wall from our bedroom into this playroom and put in another wall to close off part of the playroom. We could expand the master bedroom and build a large bathroom for us. We would then remodel the bathroom that daughter would be sharing with us and make it accessible to her room only and have basically 2 master bedrooms. Obviously this will add to the cost of the home. This has caused a big wrinkle and MIL is going back and forth with a comment she made to both myself and to hubby at different times. I think, with a couple of days of thinking, she will come around, but I don't know. Since the loan she got was less than we hoped for, we have already had to cut back on quite a few things. The loan was actually $20,000 less than planned. She had told us that she had another $25,000 that would be available sometime around June or July. She had said that she would allow us to use that if needed to get the house done or furniture. Now, this evening she has said that she does not have the money and will not help us any further. She thinks the contractor is lying and just wants more money. Hubby called the Mayor and asked about the meeting and got the same info that contractor gave us. MIL called the Town Administrator who was also there and got the same info contractor told us. Still she is refusing to help.

Right now, I am feeling like this was all a waste of time, and that we need to try and recoup what little money we can from the windows, doors, tile and all, and just let MIL have her loan money and be gone. Hubby says to wait and see what happens. I still say that I am giving up totally and this is putting me into a serious depression.
 
KristinaB said:
For the latest in this continuing saga:

Contractor, General Contractor and Engineer met with the Town Council for building, which included: Mayor, Vice-Mayor (Who is an A/C contractor), and 3 councilmen (1 General Contractor, 1 Electrician, & 1 A/C Contractor).

They claim to have told us of the square footage requirements in the beginning, but do admit to not having proof and that everything was verbal. They say that there is a 12 page application for Variance change and once turned in, those 5 people will be the ones approving or denying. At that point, the General Contractor asked "How likely is it to be approved?" HE was told that there was not much of an chance. They claim to have voted about 5-6 years ago to have the square footage requirement changed after this one neighborhood was built. That neighborhood's homes are all 1200 Sq Foot. The council feels that those homes are lowering the property values due to their size. So, with that knowledge, my guys then did what they could, but got nowhere. We met with contractor a little while ago (before dinner) and found all this out. Basically, he wants to enlarge and move the back patio space and close it in like an addition. IT would be classified as a "playroom" and we would not need a closet or bathroom added. It would be the least expensive way to go. The ceilings will be 8 foot whereas the house is 10-11 foot. It would have 2 windows and 3 ceiling fans with lights and a door to get outside. The kitchen door would open to this playroom. My daughter will switch rooms with hubby and I so that down the road (a few years) we can knock out the wall from our bedroom into this playroom and put in another wall to close off part of the playroom. We could expand the master bedroom and build a large bathroom for us. We would then remodel the bathroom that daughter would be sharing with us and make it accessible to her room only and have basically 2 master bedrooms. Obviously this will add to the cost of the home. This has caused a big wrinkle and MIL is going back and forth with a comment she made to both myself and to hubby at different times. I think, with a couple of days of thinking, she will come around, but I don't know. Since the loan she got was less than we hoped for, we have already had to cut back on quite a few things. The loan was actually $20,000 less than planned. She had told us that she had another $25,000 that would be available sometime around June or July. She had said that she would allow us to use that if needed to get the house done or furniture. Now, this evening she has said that she does not have the money and will not help us any further. She thinks the contractor is lying and just wants more money. Hubby called the Mayor and asked about the meeting and got the same info that contractor gave us. MIL called the Town Administrator who was also there and got the same info contractor told us. Still she is refusing to help.

Right now, I am feeling like this was all a waste of time, and that we need to try and recoup what little money we can from the windows, doors, tile and all, and just let MIL have her loan money and be gone. Hubby says to wait and see what happens. I still say that I am giving up totally and this is putting me into a serious depression.
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I'm so sorry!...But maybe things will work out positive, if it was meant to be, then it will.
 
Oh, Kristina, I'm very sorry. This is such a tremendous disappointment. :(

I hope something works out for you.
 
It really is such a shame and a drag on people, K Huggzzz....
 
Well- I knew MIL only needed time to think. She has again made a bunch of calls to various people, both on the council and others in the area that she trusts. She now understands that contractor was telling the truth and that the Town Council is full of crap. She has decided that she does have some money available and possibly all of the money in this account. She called contractor, (his wife was NOT happy) and he is planning on really reworking everything. We know the windows cost more than planned, but are better than originally thought. He's also mentioned that the block alone will be about $3000 to $4000, but all in all, he thinks he can do it within our amended budget. We will know on Friday, but at this point, MIL has again changed her mind and will give us the money.

I tell you, between this, my computer in the shop and other news regarding vehicle repairs, my mind is in a major tizzy.
 
Ah, honey, don't give up! Building a house is always stressful. We went through a lot of aggravation when we had our beach house built. For a while it seemed like one thing after another, but *finally* it was finished and we have been enjoying it for 7 years now.

Honestly that enclosed patio sounds like a good idea. I bet you will enjoy the extra space.
 
The enclosed back room will be a "playroom", but we plan on moving the sewing and arts & crafts in there. It will a totally closed room with ceiling fans, 2 windows and a door to the backyard.
 
I guarantee you that you will be glad to have that space for all your projects. Not a bad plan at all.
 
Okay - contractor and his boss, the general contractor came by. For the original conversion part of the construction, the final quote is $95,000 and now the addition of the 400 sq ft "playroom" is $21,470. We do have to have the special windows in that as well as the special door. There will be 2 windows and that makes our total number of windows now 7. They are special ordered from Tampa and are "sound barrier/hurricane safe" windows, for the airport regulations and up to 140 MPH winds for the hurricane strength.

Hubby is talking with his mother and filling her in. Also, it will not have the central A/C in it. It will be prepared for the A/C expansion for a year or two down the road. In the estimate is the cost for an portable A/C unit for that "playroom" and once the central A/C is routed out there from the house, then the portable will go to MIL as her A/C unit is not good.

***UPDATE****
Okay, the loan was $83,000 and MIL is giving us another $37,000, which makes $120,000 for the build. Total build is $116,470. That leaves is with $3530 to get some furniture and put some away for property taxes. We are going to be able to move forward with this. Yahoo!!!

Contractor is taking preliminary plans to the Town Hall on Monday for approval. They should hear back by Wednesday, then can go to the architect for the final plans (again!!) and I can slo notify the surveyor for the final (again!!!) needs. If all goes well, we should have the permit by Monday or Wednesday of the following week.
 
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Wow. Sounds like it is moving forward and that is great news.
 
Another set-back. Now, after working and getting the new additional square footage worked in, they claim we will need to have a larger septic tank and will have to get a new permit.

I have the paper that says, you need a specific size septic tank for the specific square footage that came from the Health Department that issues the permits. On that paper, it says for sq footage of 1201 to 2250 sq ft, all get the same size septic tank. Well, that means that the size we were going to have for 1344 sq ft will be the same for 1750 sq ft. The Town Hall is fighting that. They claim we are wrong. The contractor is taking them the paper on Monday and a list of questions and such and stating that he must have answers by end of day Tuesday. He will go just before closing on Tuesday to get those answers and if they don't have them, then he will contact the attorney for his construction company. If that happens, we will most likely back out of this, get what money back that we can, do what we can with the doors and tile we have and then use the money and possibly move to Central Florida with MIL's approval. It was her suggestion. The contractor will be suing for no less than $200,000 for lost time, lost wages and medical illness for MIL, hubby and myself.

Needless to say, we are so sick of this whole thing and I quite frankly am just ready to give up entirely. I have been so depressed today that it is hard to function.
 
Oh brother. That just can't be right. You are not adding a new bathroom or anything else that uses water, so how could you need a larger septic system?

When we built our house the septic requirements were based on a combinationof how many bedrooms and how many bathrooms we had. They figured two people per bedroom.

Since the space you are adding is not even an additional bedroom, how could that change septic requirements??

I hope your contractor does a good job of fighting for you. That just sounds so wrong, what they are telling you.
 
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