It it really the deaf/Deaf community?

faire_jour said:
I am not advocating the bi-bi system to anyone here. There is no need, nearly everyone here is in total agreement in that regard. If I were speaking to other parents about educational placement I would be making totally different arguments. I am trying to explain the thoughts and feelings of hearing parents here.

Oh, and as for honey...I think the Deaf community could stand to use a little more with parents.
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There you go again with the blame game. Please refrain from doing that. I am sorry that you are frustrated and angry, but lashing out at others is not the solution.

Again, you can explain your feelings, your motives, your experiences. It is up to others to explain theirs.

Your experience, by your own admission, has been supportive within the deaf community. Perhaps it is not the deaf community alone that needs to change, but the hearing parents who are creating a negative reaction to themselves. A negative reaction that you, by your own admission, have not experienced. It certainly can't all be laid at the door of the deaf community, or you would have had a negative experience rather that thesupportive one you claim, and I would have had the same negative experience. I have not. You say you have not. Therefore, it is not just the responsibility of the deaf community, but an interaction between the deaf community and the hearing parents. That suggests that the responsibility lies as much on the parents as on the deaf community as a whole.
 
Hear Again said:
>>.. and for the DeafBlind community too<<

Mrs. Bucket,

(Everyone, please excuse this off-topic post, but there is something I don't understand...)

Could you explain what you mean by the statement above? Thanks!
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Hi Hear Again

Sure I'll clarify what I mean by more compassion for the DeafBlind community from the Deaf community.

Some members from the Deaf community cannot help themselves - out of habit- shun the DeafBlind even though it is not acquired DeafBlind.

It's societal attitudes, you see. Society shuns the Deaf community, in turn, some members of the Deaf community shuns some DeafBlind members.

I've already experience this "societal shun" and I don't blame anyone at all. I advocate for fairness and equality.

This is why I use empathy rather than apathy with others.

I hope I clarified this up. If not, please feel free to ask in a new thread to respect the thread author.

Tactile smile!
 
faire_jour said:
I thought that the whole point was to try to understand why hearing parents do what they do. It no longer seems that way. It now feels like (what many posts here turn into) hearing people are wrong, Deaf are right. There is no actual interest in why they feel the way they do, or how to help them feel welcome.
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You are the only one making that judgement of right and wrong, faire jour. That is what is causing the tension.

Before one can determine why they feel the way they do, they must first be able to identify what it is that they are feeling. That is the purpose of this thread. Not to determine the why of feelings, but to determine the "what" of the feelings. That will, in turn, explain the "why" of the behavior.
 
Hear Again said:
>>.. and for the DeafBlind community too<<

Mrs. Bucket,

(Everyone, please excuse this off-topic post, but there is something I don't understand...)

Could you explain what you mean by the statement above? Thanks!
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Not a problem, HearAgain. I would much rather you go off topic to ask for clarification, than to make an assumption without bothering to ask for explanation.;)
 
Bottesini said:
We are also getting creepy. I know my post will probably be removed, but as one of those multi handicapped, Faire Jour feels so superior to, I protest! Vigorously.
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It is reversal discrimination clear as a bell. I am with you on that one.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
There is a big difference in between sharing experiences and sharing gross generalisations.

This is what I define as experience.




After reading your post(s), this is what I define as gross generalisations. Especially this one-



An excellent teacher that has been trained in both fields of education. Developmentally delayed is the appropriate term as mentally retarded is akin to hearing-impaired. It's inappropriate to use the terminology mentally retarded.

It is inappropriate as a parent to compare the learning capabilities of a child's classmates as well in a forum.
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:gpost:
 
Daredevel7 said:
Whoa no no no. The problem is that you're telling us that there's a lot of people from the deaf community going around giving you crap for implanting your child. I am definitely not disagreeing with you on that. I'm sure others aren't either. The thing is we can't control them. There's nothing we can do about that. It doesn't seem effective to me to have a bunch of people to agree and say "Yea! Can you believe it? Deaf people can be so crazy sometimes!" and thats it? We are trying to educate ourselves the emotional reasoning behind the catty fights here on AD between the hearing parents and the deaf people, so that we can have better discussions. Instead of telling us the times that people from the deaf community are being mean, why don't you tell us how you think this can this be stopped or reduced?
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Wow, you bring in a great perspective to this ongoing problem. I am willing to work with the hearing parents here. Just like that one hearing parent told me that I was generalizing when I made a statement about hearing people and I agree with him that I was wrong for doing that so now, if we can get the same respect too.

In that picture I posted with my deaf friends earlier. We were all at a party and one of our friends there has a CI. Nobody laughed at nor mocked at him.
 
faire_jour said:
I'm so so so so done. Goodnight all.
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I sense a lot of anger within you. I am wondering if you are seeking approval from every single member of the Deaf community? So if a few do not "approve" of your decision, it is the Deaf community that needs an attitude adjustment?

Remember that thread everyone wishing you good luck with your daughter's CI journey? I can safetly say that many members of the Deaf community were very positive and supportive.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Whoa no no no. The problem is that you're telling us that there's a lot of people from the deaf community going around giving you crap for implanting your child. I am definitely not disagreeing with you on that. I'm sure others aren't either. The thing is we can't control them. There's nothing we can do about that. It doesn't seem effective to me to have a bunch of people to agree and say "Yea! Can you believe it? Deaf people can be so crazy sometimes!" and thats it? We are trying to educate ourselves the emotional reasoning behind the catty fights here on AD between the hearing parents and the deaf people, so that we can have better discussions. Instead of telling us the times that people from the deaf community are being mean, why don't you tell us how you think this can this be stopped or reduced?
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I definitely agree with this, I am thinking perhaps that we're not listening to them enough, keep putting them down, that may have something to do with it. I'm just guessing..
 
Angel said:
I definitely agree with this, I am thinking perhaps that we're not listening to them enough, keep putting them down, that may have something to do with it. I'm just guessing..
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I don't think that is what Daredevel was trying to say. That is what fiare jour is suggesting, but then she has also said that her experience has been postive. Daredevel was asking for example and clarification on how the deaf community has shut her out. She keeps claiming that the deaf community has rejected children with CIs, but that can't possibly be her personal experience, because her child doesn't even have a CI as of yet. We are trying to show her that her actual experience does not match the accusations she makes of rejection.
 
jillio said:
I don't think that is what Daredevel was trying to say. That is what fiare jour is suggesting, but then she has also said that her experience has been postive. Daredevel was asking for example and clarification on how the deaf community has shut her out. She keeps claiming that the deaf community has rejected children with CIs, but that can't possibly be her personal experience, because her child doesn't even have a CI as of yet. We are trying to show her that her actual experience does not match the accusations she makes of rejection.
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I know what Daredevel said and I'm just guessing it is because we re not listening to some hearing parents enough that why the anger is showing. Is that okay if I stated what I see?
 
Angel said:
I know what Daredevel said and I'm just guessing it is because we re not listening to some hearing parents enough that why the anger is showing. Is that okay if I stated what I see?
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Of course it is okay if you state what you see. Why are you being so defensive? I was simply stating that the anger, expecially the most recent example, is not coming from anything being done by the deaf community...at least not in this case, as the poster already stated that she had a supportive experience in the deaf community. That would suggest another source for the anger and frustration, and it is more likely than not coming from within rather than from anything outside. The purpose of the thread is to get people to the point where they are able to accept responsibility for their own actions and reactions, and not to blame them on others.
 
There are always going to be some individuals in the Deaf community who will make offending remarks or reject others because they have a CI or whatever.

I encountered a few who rejected or called me names because I was raised orally. Did I turn away from the Deaf community? No..cuz I knew there were many others who would accept me for who I am and I was right. As a result, I have a large network of Deaf friends globally (before I joined AD) .

Many parents here claim that some members were offensive or rejectful towards them and their children and as a result, they turn away from the Deaf community.

Well, hearing kids do reject and insult deaf children but yet, the parents still want their kids to continue to be around hearing kids cuz they know that not all hearing kids are like that. I agree with that.

But when the same thing happens in the Deaf community, a whole community gets shunned or turned away. Now, why is that?

I have my theory..I think deep inside the parents really don't want their deaf children around sign language users for fear of their children becoming "like them" so they use the few members who reject or name call them as a justification to keep their children away from the Deaf community. I think they r using that to mask the real reason.

Otherwise, it is hypocratical to keep their deaf children around hearing kids even if there r hearing individuals who mock or look down at their deaf children.

It does make me wonder.
 
shel90 said:
There are always going to be some individuals in the Deaf community who will make offending remarks or reject others because they have a CI or whatever.

I encountered a few who rejected or called me names because I was raised orally. Did I turn away from the Deaf community? No..cuz I knew there were many others who would accept me for who I am and I was right. As a result, I have a large network of Deaf friends globally (before I joined AD) .

Many parents here claim that some members were offensive or rejectful towards them and their children and as a result, they turn away from the Deaf community.

Well, hearing kids do reject and insult deaf children but yet, the parents still want their kids to continue to be around hearing kids cuz they know that not all hearing kids are like that. I agree with that.

But when the same thing happens in the Deaf community, a whole community gets shunned or turned away. Now, why is that?

I have my theory..I think deep inside the parents really don't want their deaf children around sign language users for fear of their children becoming "like them" so they use the few members who reject or name call them as a justification to keep their children away from the Deaf community. I think they r using that to mask the real reason.

Otherwise, it is hypocratical to keep their deaf children around hearing kids even if there r hearing individuals who mock or look down at their deaf children.

It does make me wonder.
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It makes most of us wonder, Shel. That is why I brought the topic up. Until we get to the honest reasons, there is no way to find a solution to the division. I have seen a lot of honest discussion coming from the deaf community in this thread. I appreciate everyone's effort to be objective and to look at the situation from different perspectives. Unfortunately, we are not getting much input from hearing parents regarding their honest feelings and objective perspectives of experience. The deaf community can't solve the issue by themselves. We have to have an effort from both sides. That is what I am not seeing. The hearing parents are claiming to want change in the way they are treated, and their children are treated, but I don't see them making an effort to work toward that change. So far, all I have seen are demands that the deaf community must change. The change has to come from both sides, so that we are all able to meet somewhere in the middle. Our children's well being depends on it.
 
I am going to share my feelings and perspective about this topic first as a culturally Deaf person.

Growing up Deaf, exposed to all the whatnots of Deaf Culture, Deaf community, you name it, I had it.

Losing my sight slowly, bit by bit, those who were my friends, started to lose touch with me. I don't blame them at all.

Take the AIDS hysteria back then. People were afraid of AIDS. It was the unknown. They were afraid of it, they were not educated about it, thinking they could catch it from drinking from the public water fountain or touching people.

Now being a DeafBlind, I totally appreciate everything I have- meaning what good friends I have now. Those good friends are not afraid to ask me questions because they know I will not bite them. Education is best. It is best to communicate because we all learn from each other.

I strongly suspect the CI itself is still the unknown. People create what they fear. If I could, I would go for a CI. Unfortunately I have no more residual hearing left and it has been pointed out that with very little sight I have left, the CI could impose inner ear balance problems.

I do appreciate the parents' concerns in this thread. I can see the parents wanting to hand their children the world and it's wonderful. I truly applaud people that introduce more communication methods like this.

My only concern is the attitude because children learn what they see. Their brains are like sponges, they absorb so much at such young ages.

Namaste.
 
jillio said:
When a deaf individual recommends that a parent learn sign, it is not a criticism. It is a suggestion coming from one who has lived through the very situation their child is in. It is not a criticism, it is the offering of personal experience that could very well lead to improved outcomes for their child. The hearing parents simply choose to see it as criticism. That is the whole point.
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It's exact what I thought the same.

I wasn't realize that some hearing parents register Deaf Forum telling us wrong/put us down which I thought they register Deaf Forum to learn Deaf/deaf culture and also our experience as being deaf/Deaf because they want to learn to know their deaf children better. We would love to learn to know hearing parents better ... All what I feel from many (I mean MANY) threads end :topic: because they prove us wrong...... belittle us..... their techonology is better than our ........ It annoys us .

I offered the share of my experience with my hearing parents and explain why I wish my parents can sign. My repeat posts was being ignored/denied. I feel sometimes that we (hearing and deaf) misinterpreted each other when we want to talk about sign language but they talked about CI... I noticed many ADers are neutral about CI issues and can agree to disagree with POV but the problem is some hearing parents see in us as an anti-CI which we are not. We show our respect on hearing parents but really sad is they see different.

I begin to being tired when we want to talk about the subject over sign language where the thread relate to... Few hearing parents jumped on threads to talk about CI to prove that sign language is not important....that's how it end :topic: that's why I leave Deaf Education sub-forum alone and made rare posts, if it's necassary.



 
Mrs Bucket said:
I am going to share my feelings and perspective about this topic first as a culturally Deaf person.

Growing up Deaf, exposed to all the whatnots of Deaf Culture, Deaf community, you name it, I had it.

Losing my sight slowly, bit by bit, those who were my friends, started to lose touch with me. I don't blame them at all.

Take the AIDS hysteria back then. People were afraid of AIDS. It was the unknown. They were afraid of it, they were not educated about it, thinking they could catch it from drinking from the public water fountain or touching people.

Now being a DeafBlind, I totally appreciate everything I have- meaning what good friends I have now. Those good friends are not afraid to ask me questions because they know I will not bite them. Education is best. It is best to communicate because we all learn from each other.

I strongly suspect the CI itself is still the unknown. People create what they fear. If I could, I would go for a CI. Unfortunately I have no more residual hearing left and it has been pointed out that with very little sight I have left, the CI could impose inner ear balance problems.

I do appreciate the parents' concerns in this thread. I can see the parents wanting to hand their children the world and it's wonderful. I truly applaud people that introduce more communication methods like this.

My only concern is the attitude because children learn what they see. Their brains are like sponges, they absorb so much at such young ages.

Namaste.
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I could not agree more. Well said, Mrs. Bucket.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
It's exact what I thought the same.

I wasn't realize that some hearing parents register Deaf Forum telling us wrong/put us down which I thought they register Deaf Forum to learn Deaf/deaf culture and also our experience as being deaf/Deaf because they want to learn to know their deaf children better. We would love to learn to know hearing parents better ... All what I feel from many (I mean MANY) threads end :topic: because they prove us wrong...... belittle us..... their techonology is better than our ........ It annoys us .

I offered the share of my experience with my hearing parents and explain why I wish my parents can sign. My repeat posts was being ignored/denied. I feel sometimes that we (hearing and deaf) misinterpreted each other when we want to talk about sign language but they talked about CI... I noticed many ADers are neutral about CI issues and can agree to disagree with POV but the problem is some hearing parents see in us as an anti-CI which we are not. We show our respect on hearing parents but really sad is they see different.

I begin to being tired when we want to talk about the subject over sign language where the thread relate to... Few hearing parents jumped on threads to talk about CI to prove that sign language is not important....that's how it end :topic: that's why I leave Deaf Education sub-forum alone and made rare posts, if it's necassary.
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Thank you for sharing your feelings, Liebling. Good post.
 
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