Is this cheating or lying?

So tired! I wanted to write a careful reply and give so much thought. But I have an assignment today to write a paper for Friday and a lab report due on Thursday, so this is it.

I talked with my best friend about this thread and my brother for hours. She grew up with me and my brother. She is studying both Education and ASL and might become a teacher for deaf kids. So she is great. But this thread brought so many thoughts about my family, my brother, HoH/deaf, school, "disability"...I wrote out something fast and my boyfriend read that and said it made no sense and was too long. He said it with love and kindness and was right. So you are spared! :D

My parents talked to my brother. He refused counseling. He refused to say he drinks alcohol too much. BUT he agreed to talk to a psychiatrist who works with my dad and is our family's friend. My dad thinks he wants to say "yes" to therapy and can't with pride so he will see the family's friend as the alternative. He also agreed to see someone else if the friend says to (a family's friend shouldn't treat a person for ethic reasons). My mom said my brother feels bad about our lunch but again with pride said that "misunderstood" him. He said that he told me not "lying" but "deception" and had to use a "more basic" word when I didn't hear/understand "deception". My mom said "THEN USE ASL!". Love her! They agreed he wouldn't come to me or call for a while.

I will not call him. Thinking about him, I felt bad and wanted to apologize. Why? After talking, talking, talking to my best friend, I realized I wanted to apologize for needing and getting help and for being lucky with my parents. My friend said I feel guilty for having a good life when others don't and for "taking up space" she says - for just being HoH/deaf and needing help, like others need help with any other things. She is right. I say "sorry" too much - "sorry, please repeat", "sorry, I didn't hear you", "sorry, will you write". Partial this is because people get resentment for taking more time, for repeats, for interpreter signing in class (yes! unbelievable), for tutors, for meeting extra with professors. They don't think that so much means more time and work - time to work with tutors, understand what is said etc. A tutor and interpreter does not do the work - I do. It is more work from them than just hearing what is said at first and hearing discussions etc. No whining. I need to not apologize and feel guilt. That is my problem.

My brother's problem - I realized this: My brother got a lot of attention, especially from my dad. My dad and brother did a lot of sports together and my brother thought he wanted to be a surgeon like my dad so spent time in clinic and surgery with him. Maybe I got most of attention, but he got second (my other brother and sisters now should be mean and rude :D)). He just needed more and more. Something is wrong with him that is ... I don't know how to say this... alone, just him. Separate from me and from my parents. Makes sense?

Jillio: But you are right. He needed more attention from my parents even then he got, he has to deal with his own issues and with my parents, and he can't see the hurt with me until he feels better with him. He stopped ASL with me to show his hurt inside - it is clear. If he comes here I will say I'm sorry that he is hurt and angry and want to help but he needs to use respect and kindness - and ASL if we are talking private and serious or if he doesn't want to be "misunderstood".

This is short compared to first reply. Sorry it is long anyway.

Thank you, everyone.
 
SxyPorkie said:
No you did not cheat or lie... You try to improve your writings... Keep on trying.. fk your brother..
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:ty:, SxyPorkie. For "fk my brother" - that is the sign I told my brother when I left! :D (I know - bad, but normally I don't say ever and he say it over and over all the time about everything. Still bad but :dunno2:)
 
I have an older brother who had severed ties with the family; won't talk to our parents; angry; divorced; feels that Northwest Airlines screwed him and co-workers; I could go on and on. He's middle boy of three (I'm the youngest). Things got so bad one year that my parents split up Christmas between the two older boys, as the middle one's wife is also a total snot and looks down her nose at oldest brother's wife for some unknown reason. I've only seen my brother twice since maybe 1996 and the last time, I didn't even recognize him. He's very hateful and angry, not to mention that **** hit the fan when oldest brother introduced me to his new wife (middle one got remarried). I suppose he's even mad because our parents didn't come to his remarriage or congratulate him (we knew nothing about it). Go figure. I feel, let the devil be mad, so I say that about your brother. Offer to give him your deafness and switch, see what he says. Bet he won't see the world through rose colored glasses anymore.
 
shel90 said:
Who knows? Getting my dad to admit anything will take a miracle! LOL!
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Some people never learnthe art of self honesty.....sadly enough. Best you can do is love him and let it go. And feel sorry for him for all that he has missed in your life and your brother's life!
 
Kaitin said:
So tired! I wanted to write a careful reply and give so much thought. But I have an assignment today to write a paper for Friday and a lab report due on Thursday, so this is it.

I talked with my best friend about this thread and my brother for hours. She grew up with me and my brother. She is studying both Education and ASL and might become a teacher for deaf kids. So she is great. But this thread brought so many thoughts about my family, my brother, HoH/deaf, school, "disability"...I wrote out something fast and my boyfriend read that and said it made no sense and was too long. He said it with love and kindness and was right. So you are spared! :D

My parents talked to my brother. He refused counseling. He refused to say he drinks alcohol too much. BUT he agreed to talk to a psychiatrist who works with my dad and is our family's friend. My dad thinks he wants to say "yes" to therapy and can't with pride so he will see the family's friend as the alternative. He also agreed to see someone else if the friend says to (a family's friend shouldn't treat a person for ethic reasons). My mom said my brother feels bad about our lunch but again with pride said that "misunderstood" him. He said that he told me not "lying" but "deception" and had to use a "more basic" word when I didn't hear/understand "deception". My mom said "THEN USE ASL!". Love her! They agreed he wouldn't come to me or call for a while.

I will not call him. Thinking about him, I felt bad and wanted to apologize. Why? After talking, talking, talking to my best friend, I realized I wanted to apologize for needing and getting help and for being lucky with my parents. My friend said I feel guilty for having a good life when others don't and for "taking up space" she says - for just being HoH/deaf and needing help, like others need help with any other things. She is right. I say "sorry" too much - "sorry, please repeat", "sorry, I didn't hear you", "sorry, will you write". Partial this is because people get resentment for taking more time, for repeats, for interpreter signing in class (yes! unbelievable), for tutors, for meeting extra with professors. They don't think that so much means more time and work - time to work with tutors, understand what is said etc. A tutor and interpreter does not do the work - I do. It is more work from them than just hearing what is said at first and hearing discussions etc. No whining. I need to not apologize and feel guilt. That is my problem.

My brother's problem - I realized this: My brother got a lot of attention, especially from my dad. My dad and brother did a lot of sports together and my brother thought he wanted to be a surgeon like my dad so spent time in clinic and surgery with him. Maybe I got most of attention, but he got second (my other brother and sisters now should be mean and rude :D)). He just needed more and more. Something is wrong with him that is ... I don't know how to say this... alone, just him. Separate from me and from my parents. Makes sense?

Jillio: But you are right. He needed more attention from my parents even then he got, he has to deal with his own issues and with my parents, and he can't see the hurt with me until he feels better with him. He stopped ASL with me to show his hurt inside - it is clear. If he comes here I will say I'm sorry that he is hurt and angry and want to help but he needs to use respect and kindness - and ASL if we are talking private and serious or if he doesn't want to be "misunderstood".

This is short compared to first reply. Sorry it is long anyway.

Thank you, everyone.
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You will be fine, kaitlin. You are already growing into a mature and understanding adult. And, yes, your brother needs help, but until he realizes that, there isn't much anyone can do. He has to want it for himself. Sometimes the threat of loosing family relationships is enough, sometimes it isn't. But you are in no way resposnible for your brother's anger and misery, nor are your parents resposnible. It is a world he has created for himself.
 
jillio said:
You will be fine, kaitlin. You are already growing into a mature and understanding adult. And, yes, your brother needs help, but until he realizes that, there isn't much anyone can do. He has to want it for himself. Sometimes the threat of loosing family relationships is enough, sometimes it isn't. But you are in no way resposnible for your brother's anger and misery, nor are your parents resposnible. It is a world he has created for himself.
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Thank you, Jillio for the kind post and the thought you have given. It has really helped a lot. I'm impressed and grateful. :hug:
 
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I guess the reason why some people would think it was cheating is because a lot of deaf students try to get their tutor or other people to do their work.

I was a volunteer tutor for several NTID students and 1 out of 5 actually tried to learn, while the rest simply tried to get me to redo their paper for them. One time, I was proofreading one student's paper on her computer through MS Word. You know how MS Word shows spelling errors (red squiggly lines) and grammar errors (green squiggly lines)? Well, this student had green squiggly lines throughout 90% of her paper. I had a difficult time trying to help her without redoing it all for her. It took me two hours to ask her what she was trying to say so that it would be worded better.

I've been to the computer lab (NLC) in LBJ. While there, I'll sometimes be at a computer next to a table where they are tutoring students. What do some of them do? They rush through the paper without trying, then they hand the paper to the tutor and have them fix it while that student sits back and wanders his eyes/head around the room in a lazy manner.

That's part of the reason why I stopped tutoring... unless I know that person personally and know that he/she is willing to try harder.
 
VamPyroX said:
I guess the reason why some people would think it was cheating is because a lot of deaf students try to get their tutor or other people to do their work.

I was a volunteer tutor for several NTID students and 1 out of 5 actually tried to learn, while the rest simply tried to get me to redo their paper for them. One time, I was proofreading one student's paper on her computer through MS Word. You know how MS Word shows spelling errors (red squiggly lines) and grammar errors (green squiggly lines)? Well, this student had green squiggly lines throughout 90% of her paper. I had a difficult time trying to help her without redoing it all for her. It took me two hours to ask her what she was trying to say so that it would be worded better.

I've been to the computer lab (NLC) in LBJ. While there, I'll sometimes be at a computer next to a table where they are tutoring students. What do some of them do? They rush through the paper without trying, then they hand the paper to the tutor and have them fix it while that student sits back and wanders his eyes/head around the room in a lazy manner.

That's part of the reason why I stopped tutoring... unless I know that person personally and know that he/she is willing to try harder.
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Vampyrox: That's sad. And stupid because if you don't learn now you will fail or suffer in future times. I am too competitive and interested in learning to not try. Yes, if my tutors did a assignment it would be so easy. But then so difficult in exams or when discovered by professors.

A few times my papers were rejected by tutors for too many mistakes. Usually because I used a wrong word over and over the same way. Or I didn't use words exactly right and the meaning was gone. I also used to just guess at somethings. When I write for class I look up words in dictionary and use grammar books, but not when I was younger all the time.

Those students probably didn't understand truly the work and now are ignorant about it. Sad.
 
I really don't see any problem with using a roomate and spell checkers as a resource to assist in working on a writing assignment or even an email. Its your brother who has a problem not you.
 
Kaitin, u got some wise advice from some members here! I'm sorry that yer bro is being an ass. You have taken enough of his abuse already, and good on ya for standing up to him... just keep your boundaries around him for your own sake, okay?
 
Kaitin said:
Pete: :ty:. I should have said about professional writers and others proofreading - great thought. And I agree with you and Dixie about the pole!

Shel: My brother always has been trouble, always angry. Why? I don't know. Worse, he always has been mean and works to make life hard for others. If my HAs were off, he would change volume to highest or lowest. He waited until my parents left and hold down me or my sister and pinch, slap, or poke. He would say something mean - very clearly, facing me - and when I got mad and we argued he would tell my mom "she misunderstood me - I didn't say that" and roll his eyes like "dummy". I always had better grades than he did (but his grades were good) and he would say teachers "pity" me or that my school is "easy" (I went to a different school - it was private, with expectations that all students to graduate and go to college - not easy)

I don't understand. He is smart, the best athlete, and handsome. He doesn't have many friends, but who wants a mean friend? He is alone in my family for being so negative. My parents are great, and he had attention, love, and understanding when he was a kid.

He is mean to my sisters and brothers also. But I think he is worse to me - my sisters think this too. A horrible thought but I think he is worse because of my hearing loss and because I did well in school despite being HoH/deaf. When I was a kid I would think "why? why?". Now I think he wanted me to fail, to be the dummy so he could feel superior. Sad. Maybe I am wrong. He could be worse to me because I am the youngest. I don't know.

When I am not angry at him I feel bad for him. But he stops my sympathy with his meanness. And I am a fool again and again - I still want to love my brother and him to love me. I need to stop thinking this. I will not invite him anywhere again.

My parents will talk with him today and tell him to get therapy. They know more about his problems than I do and said they think he is in trouble. When I was younger and they realized all his anger, they told him to go to therapy or behave. My dad now says they should have forced him to go and not giving him a choice.

:ty: everyone for your perspectives. I was starting thinking that he was right a little. Not now.
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Do you think your brother has stepped over the line and become abusive?

There is inter sibling behaviour and there is a line where it becomes abuse. This is basically when the victim has little or no defence against them.

Denial is simply an avoidance strategy. He knows he is doing wrong, otherwise he would be saying something like - huh? was that wrong to do? It's another way of getting to behave how he likes and dodging the consequences. He has spotted you as an easy enough target.

I think you would be best telling him to modify his behaviour towards you or you will not see him again until he does. You do not have to tolerate this treatment.

That's your decision.
 
Nomad said:
Do you think your brother has stepped over the line and become abusive?

There is inter sibling behaviour and there is a line where it becomes abuse. This is basically when the victim has little or no defence against them.

Denial is simply an avoidance strategy. He knows he is doing wrong, otherwise he would be saying something like - huh? was that wrong to do? It's another way of getting to behave how he likes and dodging the consequences. He has spotted you as an easy enough target.

I think you would be best telling him to modify his behaviour towards you or you will not see him again until he does. You do not have to tolerate this treatment.

That's your decision.
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Nomad,

Even in my own brother's case, it wouldn't mean squat to him. He doesn't come around and I used to become very nervous when he did because it was like walking on eggshells around him. No one needs that, not by anyone. This goes way beyond sibling rivalry.
 
I see nothing wrong with someone helping you .... :dunno2: :):)
 
pek1 said:
Nomad,

Even in my own brother's case, it wouldn't mean squat to him. He doesn't come around and I used to become very nervous when he did because it was like walking on eggshells around him. No one needs that, not by anyone. This goes way beyond sibling rivalry.
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I can understand that Pete.

My point here is cutting off contact with them unless the situation is more in your favour or more neutral. In this way, the cycle of abuse is being interrupted and control is being put back in your hands and they know their behaviour is not being accepted.

Now that's gotta make them feel uncomfortable. It's quite a decision for anyone to make, especially against family. Sometimes it's just what you have to do.....

My son came to live with us a while. Some of you may know my son has a mental condition, but I ended up having to kick him out because of the negative impact he was having on the rest of the family. The stress was really bad. No one came out a winner, it was a lose/lose situation, but we had to do something. It worked out OK in the end, though, so I can live with that.

Getting back to topic, I see nothing wrong with anyone helping, it's your decision whether to use the help or not as you may feel appropriate.

Isn't research using someone else's nformation the same thing?
 
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