Is this cheating or lying?

jillio said:
Many professors actually reccommend that a student have a classmate, friend, or tutor read their paper prior to turning it in. Likewise, many professors offer to review first drafts and offer suggestions regarding grammar, syntax, and format, thus giving the student the chance to revise.

JMO, this is called "learning".
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If this is wide-spread, doesn't it leave an opening for chicanery by some?
 
Tousi said:
If this is wide-spread, doesn't it leave an opening for chicanery by some?
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That door is always open, it would appear......hence the number of students that are dismissed or placed on academic probation for plagerism and cheating. If one wants to cheat, one will always find a way.:cool:

I prefer to see this as a way to teach through correction by allowing the student to actually apply the correction and thus solidfy the skill for future use.
 
Kaitin said:
Deafskeptic: I am so impressed you write poetry! I love to read, but I don't understand poetry. I understand the words, of course, but I say I don't understand it because I would read a poem and wonder why it is a poem if it looks like an essay or other writing? why do some poems interrupt the sentence
like this?
I can understand that for emphasis - "this
is
important" -
but that isn't always the truth. My roommate loves poetry and shows me "beautiful" poetry, and I think ":ty: - :dunno2:". I'm not asking you, Deafskeptic, or arguing against poetry, I just am impressed that you write them. Do you ever post your poems? Is there a poem you would suggest to read?

Ok, offtopic! :D
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:topic:

To be honest, I rarely write poetry. When I'm in a mood for a writing challenge, I'll try to write poetry. It's difficult for me because phonics
has never been my forte and English poetry is heavily dependant on it. That's why I prefer ASL poetry though I must admit that ASL is not my first language and it shows in my signing. ASL poetry plays to my strengths - not my weakness.
 
Kaitin said:
I'm so upset :(, but I hope this makes sense.

I took my brother to lunch today. I am close to all my brothers and sisters, but not him. His birthday was last week (he's 27) and I want to be close to him, so I asked him to lunch. Big mistake.

He asked about my classes (I'm in college), and we talked about it for a long. After his asking, I told him that my hearing roommate often reads stuff I write and corrects it for spelling, word choice, word order, etc. Nothing big, but she changes "this" to "that" or "a" to 'the" kind of idea. She also makes the sentences sound better when read outloud. She likes doing this - she is going to be an English teacher. I don't ask her every time, but if I am writing a paper, a long email or post, etc and she is there (my computer is in our living room) I will ask her. It's a good way to learn, and we talk about English. I also help her with ASL - she's taking her third ASL class now. We are friends and roommates and help each other.

So I told my brother this. No big deal, right? Well, he said 1) that is cheating when it if for a class and 2) that is lying when it is personal (email, posts). My advisor knows and encourages me to having a hearing person read what I write. When I took the required English classes I had a tutor the department assigned to me and it was ok. My mom is an English professor at this college, and she thinks it is fine as long as no one writes stuff for me.

Do you think this is "cheating" or "lying"?

Our conversation didn't go well. At the end, I was signing and he was still speaking (he knows ASL - my parents made sure all my brothers and sisters learned it and they use it at home). I asked him why he doesn't sign. I shouldn't have asked, but I was upset. He said, "You can understand me fine. Don't be lazy". :mad: Then I gave him a sign everyone knows even without knowing ASL and left.

HoH/deaf and hearing, what do you think?
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Kaitin,

I'm an older university student and also a reporter/writer. If you look at your local newspaper, or any newspaper for that matter, do you think every article was written only by the journalist as it stands? No. All articles are edited for clarity, length, style, etc. The only difference is that the byline goes to the reporter who wrote the story. Having someone proofread what you wrote (which is what it means and that's what you're doing) is not only smart, but helps you sound more intelligent. A few deaf people here don't proof their own words and it shows their intelligence and people like me pass over what they say. I don't need to name names, as they know who they are.

As for your brother, I'd ask him if he was at you latest audiogram test and can dictate verbatim (right now) exactly what it says. I would also ask him if he knows what it's like to be deaf. Ignore his snide comment, as Dixie says, he's got a ten-foot pole stuck up his ass.
 
Hey Kaitlin...

I agree with many of the members here. It is not cheating nor lying.

Yep, it seems like your brother is an angry person. Has he always been like that since childhood or is it a recent issue with him?
 
Pete: :ty:. I should have said about professional writers and others proofreading - great thought. And I agree with you and Dixie about the pole!

Shel: My brother always has been trouble, always angry. Why? I don't know. Worse, he always has been mean and works to make life hard for others. If my HAs were off, he would change volume to highest or lowest. He waited until my parents left and hold down me or my sister and pinch, slap, or poke. He would say something mean - very clearly, facing me - and when I got mad and we argued he would tell my mom "she misunderstood me - I didn't say that" and roll his eyes like "dummy". I always had better grades than he did (but his grades were good) and he would say teachers "pity" me or that my school is "easy" (I went to a different school - it was private, with expectations that all students to graduate and go to college - not easy)

I don't understand. He is smart, the best athlete, and handsome. He doesn't have many friends, but who wants a mean friend? He is alone in my family for being so negative. My parents are great, and he had attention, love, and understanding when he was a kid.

He is mean to my sisters and brothers also. But I think he is worse to me - my sisters think this too. A horrible thought but I think he is worse because of my hearing loss and because I did well in school despite being HoH/deaf. When I was a kid I would think "why? why?". Now I think he wanted me to fail, to be the dummy so he could feel superior. Sad. Maybe I am wrong. He could be worse to me because I am the youngest. I don't know.

When I am not angry at him I feel bad for him. But he stops my sympathy with his meanness. And I am a fool again and again - I still want to love my brother and him to love me. I need to stop thinking this. I will not invite him anywhere again.

My parents will talk with him today and tell him to get therapy. They know more about his problems than I do and said they think he is in trouble. When I was younger and they realized all his anger, they told him to go to therapy or behave. My dad now says they should have forced him to go and not giving him a choice.

:ty: everyone for your perspectives. I was starting thinking that he was right a little. Not now.
 
Kaitin said:
Pete: :ty:. I should have said about professional writers and others proofreading - great thought. And I agree with you and Dixie about the pole!

Shel: My brother always has been trouble, always angry. Why? I don't know. Worse, he always has been mean and works to make life hard for others. If my HAs were off, he would change volume to highest or lowest. He waited until my parents left and hold down me or my sister and pinch, slap, or poke. He would say something mean - very clearly, facing me - and when I got mad and we argued he would tell my mom "she misunderstood me - I didn't say that" and roll his eyes like "dummy". I always had better grades than he did (but his grades were good) and he would say teachers "pity" me or that my school is "easy" (I went to a different school - it was private, with expectations that all students to graduate and go to college - not easy)

I don't understand. He is smart, the best athlete, and handsome. He doesn't have many friends, but who wants a mean friend? He is alone in my family for being so negative. My parents are great, and he had attention, love, and understanding when he was a kid.

He is mean to my sisters and brothers also. But I think he is worse to me - my sisters think this too. A horrible thought but I think he is worse because of my hearing loss and because I did well in school despite being HoH/deaf. When I was a kid I would think "why? why?". Now I think he wanted me to fail, to be the dummy so he could feel superior. Sad. Maybe I am wrong. He could be worse to me because I am the youngest. I don't know.

When I am not angry at him I feel bad for him. But he stops my sympathy with his meanness. And I am a fool again and again - I still want to love my brother and him to love me. I need to stop thinking this. I will not invite him anywhere again.

My parents will talk with him today and tell him to get therapy. They know more about his problems than I do and said they think he is in trouble. When I was younger and they realized all his anger, they told him to go to therapy or behave. My dad now says they should have forced him to go and not giving him a choice.

:ty: everyone for your perspectives. I was starting thinking that he was right a little. Not now.
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The family dynamics where there is one deaf child withseveral hearing siblings is a tricky situation. In all families where one child has any kind of a disability affects the way that sibs interact with each other, withthe diabled child, and with their parents. From what you ahve described, it is quite possible that your brother feels that you received more attention and time from your parents than was given him, and therefore, has buried resentment since childhood. This is not unusual at all, as many children with a disabled sibling feel this way. The problems occur when a person carries that childish feeling over into adulthood. Theray will get to the root of the problem, and teach him that childish perceptions of the way things were do not serve him well in adulthood. He has some growing up to do.
 
jillio said:
The family dynamics where there is one deaf child withseveral hearing siblings is a tricky situation. In all families where one child has any kind of a disability affects the way that sibs interact with each other, withthe diabled child, and with their parents. From what you ahve described, it is quite possible that your brother feels that you received more attention and time from your parents than was given him, and therefore, has buried resentment since childhood. This is not unusual at all, as many children with a disabled sibling feel this way. The problems occur when a person carries that childish feeling over into adulthood. Theray will get to the root of the problem, and teach him that childish perceptions of the way things were do not serve him well in adulthood. He has some growing up to do.
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Jillio: I think you are correct. My parents spent a lot of time with me and working for me. They took many ASL classes. They made my brothers and sisters learn ASL and use ASL at home. They did speech therapy with me and paid for extra speech therapy (they still pay for a therapist - we work on new words in my college classes and old problems) and tutors. My mom worked and worked with me on my English assignments. She is on my college campus and we spend a lot of time together. I always thought ASL made a special bond with my parents and me, but it wasn't ASL maybe. Maybe it was me "the disabled kid". I think a lot of our family revolved around making a great home for me.

Thinking now, I don't know a correct emotion. It makes no sense to feel guilty - I didn't ask my parents and would have say "less" to speech therapy, English lessons, tutors etc. Now I am grateful but when young I hated it sometimes. I know I am lucky - my parents have great salaries and are the best for support, love, encouragement. My brother got the same for support, love, and encouragement, but he didn't get so much attention. My grades maybe were better because of tutors, my mom etc. He maybe needed more help (but he did good and graduated college with some award). I don't know.

With such a consideration, what do I do? I know I can't discuss anything with him now. But later, with less anger from him and me, what should I tell him? Apologize? That feels partial wrong and partial right. I work so hard at school, friends, socializing, and living independently - I don't want to apologize for my life. But I can see his feelings more maybe.
 
Kaitin said:
Jillio: I think you are correct. My parents spent a lot of time with me and working for me. They took many ASL classes. They made my brothers and sisters learn ASL and use ASL at home. They did speech therapy with me and paid for extra speech therapy (they still pay for a therapist - we work on new words in my college classes and old problems) and tutors. My mom worked and worked with me on my English assignments. She is on my college campus and we spend a lot of time together. I always thought ASL made a special bond with my parents and me, but it wasn't ASL maybe. Maybe it was me "the disabled kid". I think a lot of our family revolved around making a great home for me.

Thinking now, I don't know a correct emotion. It makes no sense to feel guilty - I didn't ask my parents and would have say "less" to speech therapy, English lessons, tutors etc. Now I am grateful but when young I hated it sometimes. I know I am lucky - my parents have great salaries and are the best for support, love, encouragement. My brother got the same for support, love, and encouragement, but he didn't get so much attention. My grades maybe were better because of tutors, my mom etc. He maybe needed more help (but he did good and graduated college with some award). I don't know.

With such a consideration, what do I do? I know I can't discuss anything with him now. But later, with less anger from him and me, what should I tell him? Apologize? That feels partial wrong and partial right. I work so hard at school, friends, socializing, and living independently - I don't want to apologize for my life. But I can see his feelings more maybe.
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You have no reason to apologize for anything. Nor do your parents need to apologize for the decisions they made. They simply took care of the needs in the family that they saw as having first priority. It wasn't as if you were a demanding child who did things to intentionally divert their attention away from your siblings. You are not at fault here, nor are your parents at fault.

Evidently, your other siblings grew up in the same household, and they have not developed the same problems that your brother seems to have. They have gone beyond their childish ideas and developed an adult persepctive. It is time for him to do the same.

Your brother probably doesn't even realize what is going on with him, or why he feels the anger or acts the way he does. He needs first, to understand where his feelings that are creating his behavior are coming from. A therapist can help him discover this, and can also help him come to a new understanding and perspective of the situation. Secondly, he needs to deal with the issues with your parents, because that is where the issues begin. You are just the handy target at this point. He is not angry with you for being deaf, he is angry with your parents for his perceived lack of attention. But because you were getting the atttention that he believes he should have gotten, you have become his target.

Once he has dealt with his own issues, and the issues he has with your parents, he can then see where he has treated you unfairly, and the two of you will be able to repair your relationship. Be patient. It might take some time. He didn't develop his behavior and his attitudes overnight, and he will not be able to change them overnight. But while he is getting better, there is no reason for him to be allowed to continue to treat you in this way. The best thing that you can do for both yourself and your brother is to let him know that you have not done anything to deserve his treatment of you, and that if he cannot give you the respect that you deserve, you will simply avoid contact with him. Tell him that you love him, but that you will not allow him to be mean and hurtful towards you for no reason. That will go a long way toward getting him toaccept personal responsibility, and it will keep you from being his victim any longer. If he doesn't have a victim, he will have to start looking at his own behavior.

I think maybe I hear you saying that the emotion you are feeling is empathy for your brother, and perhaps sadness that he has reacted this way. But also, sadness that you have to be the one to say, "No more!"
 
jillio said:
You have no reason to apologize for anything. Nor do your parents need to apologize for the decisions they made. They simply took care of the needs in the family that they saw as having first priority. It wasn't as if you were a demanding child who did things to intentionally divert their attention away from your siblings. You are not at fault here, nor are your parents at fault.

Evidently, your other siblings grew up in the same household, and they have not developed the same problems that your brother seems to have. They have gone beyond their childish ideas and developed an adult persepctive. It is time for him to do the same.

Your brother probably doesn't even realize what is going on with him, or why he feels the anger or acts the way he does. He needs first, to understand where his feelings that are creating his behavior are coming from. A therapist can help him discover this, and can also help him come to a new understanding and perspective of the situation. Secondly, he needs to deal with the issues with your parents, because that is where the issues begin. You are just the handy target at this point. He is not angry with you for being deaf, he is angry with your parents for his perceived lack of attention. But because you were getting the atttention that he believes he should have gotten, you have become his target.

Once he has dealt with his own issues, and the issues he has with your parents, he can then see where he has treated you unfairly, and the two of you will be able to repair your relationship. Be patient. It might take some time. He didn't develop his behavior and his attitudes overnight, and he will not be able to change them overnight. But while he is getting better, there is no reason for him to be allowed to continue to treat you in this way. The best thing that you can do for both yourself and your brother is to let him know that you have not done anything to deserve his treatment of you, and that if he cannot give you the respect that you deserve, you will simply avoid contact with him. Tell him that you love him, but that you will not allow him to be mean and hurtful towards you for no reason. That will go a long way toward getting him toaccept personal responsibility, and it will keep you from being his victim any longer. If he doesn't have a victim, he will have to start looking at his own behavior.

I think maybe I hear you saying that the emotion you are feeling is empathy for your brother, and perhaps sadness that he has reacted this way. But also, sadness that you have to be the one to say, "No more!"
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That is so correct. It may look stupid, but your post makes me cry almost. Thank you. I am logging off to think before I reply (rare I know ;)). A great post, Jillio. :hug:
 
Kaitin said:
That is so correct. It may look stupid, but your post makes me cry almost. Thank you. I am logging off to think before I reply (rare I know ;)). A great post, Jillio. :hug:
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Yea, I agree too. Great post and vey insightful!

My mom told me once that my dad was always angry at her. She feels that he was jealous of the attention she gave to my deaf brother and I with our speech therapies, tutoring and so on. I do remember my dad making a comment something about my mom being obsessed with our deafness. Now, I wonder.
 
Kaitin,
Your brother does not have the right to belittle you about anything, really. He definitely does have issues. I agree with what Jillio said. In fact, it made me think about my family dynamic and I realise, in some ways, have it done differently due to few factors.

Your brother should be really appreciative of his siblings and his parents! Family's a priceless thing, something quite tangible and yet intangible. You're very lucky to have such supportive parents who made sure you're not isolated within the family and gave you all the chances to thrive.

The way I see it is that every family has its black sheep and sometimes, it's a family burden to help try and straighten the black sheep out.
 
Kaitin said:
That is so correct. It may look stupid, but your post makes me cry almost. Thank you. I am logging off to think before I reply (rare I know ;)). A great post, Jillio. :hug:
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Awww....glad I could help. Keep me informed.:hug:
 
shel90 said:
Yea, I agree too. Great post and vey insightful!

My mom told me once that my dad was always angry at her. She feels that he was jealous of the attention she gave to my deaf brother and I with our speech therapies, tutoring and so on. I do remember my dad making a comment something about my mom being obsessed with our deafness. Now, I wonder.
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Maybe a bit of resentment because the reality of raising childen did not fit inwith his thoughts of what it should be?
 
shel90 said:
Yea, I agree too. Great post and vey insightful!

My mom told me once that my dad was always angry at her. She feels that he was jealous of the attention she gave to my deaf brother and I with our speech therapies, tutoring and so on. I do remember my dad making a comment something about my mom being obsessed with our deafness. Now, I wonder.
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Shel: I read this twice because I couldn't believe a dad would be so angry about attention. That's sad. Jillio's post makes you think, doesn't it?

I'm glad you and your brother had each other and hope you are close.
 
Miss-Delectable said:
Kaitin,
Your brother does not have the right to belittle you about anything, really. He definitely does have issues. I agree with what Jillio said. In fact, it made me think about my family dynamic and I realise, in some ways, have it done differently due to few factors.

Your brother should be really appreciative of his siblings and his parents! Family's a priceless thing, something quite tangible and yet intangible. You're very lucky to have such supportive parents who made sure you're not isolated within the family and gave you all the chances to thrive.

The way I see it is that every family has its black sheep and sometimes, it's a family burden to help try and straighten the black sheep out.
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I agree - I'm lucky for my parents and my other brother and sisters. Especially my parents. They are great. My dad does have a temper, but he is sweet and loving with family. I wish my brother saw it.

My mom says that in every big family there is one that counts, makes sure all is even, and "keeps track". She never says a bad word about any of her kids, but she said my brother is this. I guess he is the black sheep. Now I need a sheepdog ;).
 
jillio said:
Maybe a bit of resentment because the reality of raising childen did not fit inwith his thoughts of what it should be?
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Who knows? Getting my dad to admit anything will take a miracle! LOL!
 
Kaitin said:
Shel: I read this twice because I couldn't believe a dad would be so angry about attention. That's sad. Jillio's post makes you think, doesn't it?

I'm glad you and your brother had each other and hope you are close.
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Thanks!
He is not so angry anymore but when they were married, they were always fighting and my mom told me the reasons when I became an adult to why they split up. The jealousy was one of them among many others. Yea, my brother and I are so tight even though we live 3,000 miles away from each other. :(

Iam glad that your parents and sisters are supportive of u. :)
 
No you did not cheat or lie... You try to improve your writings... Keep on trying.. fk your brother..
 
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