part of privilege is not knowing or hearing about a lot of these things....and also not getting the "undertone" of something that appears to be benign -
You're right, I never experienced my family doing that. I'm sorry that you went thru that. That's a horrible thing to say to a child. I have mixed-race cousins of unmarried parents and they were never treated that way by our family. I also have other white cousins who are married to black spouses, and it's no big deal to the family. Not all of our relatives are American born either.No, I was not talking about schools, although teachers and many kids in school held similar attitudes.
You were not actually told to "Act White" you were told to "act like ladies and gentlemen" and other races, nationalities, were disparaged for not doing it. You may have grown up in the same era, and with many of the same cultures, but if you never had an all white contingent in your family explain that you were a product of miscegenation that was an offense against man and God that should have been aborted for the sake of decency, you will find it hard to understand my admittedly skewed viewpoints.
This is another of those authority, control, issues. Whenever anyone is upset the person who wants control, or believes they should be in control, invariably demands the subordinate person "calm down and be reasonable."
However if you apply a little human understanding, and have a little patience, the person, and or persons, who are upset will calm down eventually when they have the emotions out of their system.
You're right, I never experienced my family doing that. I'm sorry that you went thru that. That's a horrible thing to say to a child. I have mixed-race cousins of unmarried parents and they were never treated that way by our family. I also have other white cousins who are married to black spouses, and it's no big deal to the family. Not all of our relatives are American born either.
As far as school goes, when I was growing up, everyone was expected to behave politely in school, no matter who they were. That was also enforced by the students' parents. I went to public neighborhood schools, nothing special.
This is the part that is puzzling:
You were not actually told to "Act White" you were told to "act like ladies and gentlemen" and other races, nationalities, were disparaged for not doing it.
Since I didn't experience that, can you describe to me what behaviors would be considered "White," and why other races and nationalities wouldn't be doing them?
The flipside of that is that if the interpreter genuinely can't understand the Deaf person then communication isn't happening, and whatever point they're trying to make isn't being conveyed to the other party. All the other party sees is an angry Deaf person waving their hands around, but they have no idea what is being said. I think it would be fair for an interpreter to inform the Deaf person of this difficulty and then let them decide what they want to do about it.
I see what you're saying, though, so it would probably be prudent to leave out the request for them to calm down and simply say, "I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding you right now, so I can't interpret."
Just to let you know, I would be inclined to use the same control with a hearing person who was agitated to the point that I couldn't effectively interpret for them.
Other than short excerpts from his shows, I never watched a full Carlin performance but I'm familiar with him. He's been dead a few years now.I don't expect you to ever watch George Carlin, but in his early comedy he broke the cultural differences between WASPS and Blacks of the time to the bone.
Maybe that's what a lady of ante-bellum South was like but that's not how the ladies of my lifetime were.Gone With The Wind gives a pretty good lesson of what a lady should be like, partly because Scarlett resisted being one so well.
Wow, you did grow up in a restricted environment. Two of my cousins were on American Bandstand. I took dance lessons that included formal ballroom (taught by Russian immigrant dancers), and all the "hot" new dances of the 60's. In our family, class had nothing to do with money or material wealth (which is a good thing since we had no money). It was about behavior and knowledge....First off I use the term "White" because the phrase was used, "Like decent white people" around me. WASP is a very accurate term. No one I ever met called themselves that. White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant. I might add inhibited. American Bandstand was considered an absolute horror. Civilized dancing was formal, ball room dancing. I might add that in order to be civilized you needed both money, friends who were the "right kind" and a full knowledge of etiquette. Table manners were, and still are, important if you wish to rise in the social world. Not to mention proper grammar at all times.
I was taught that politeness meant showing consideration for other people. I guess that might be considered unnatural.You were always expected to behave politely, never naturally,
Interesting. Were these the rules of just your family? Or were they the rules of your society? Or both?do not raise your voice or use a lot of gestures as this was a sign you were "not in control of yourself" -- Please calm down and come back when you can act like a civilized person. You were never to become emotionally involved in any subject. Unless of course you were giving a speech to the masses.
I guess if it's a "WASP" society, then people moving into it would assimilate those behaviors, just as WASPs moving into other societies would assimilate the behaviors of the other societies?Other races, other nationalities, often came from other cultures. Other cultures do not always believe that you have to be the WASP definition of a "Lady" or a "Gentleman" all the time.
Sounds like my Yankee ancestors.Dancing in the streets? Standing on the corner, hollering at your friend across the street? Grown men in the front yard wrestling just for the fun of it? Bantering (That is calling each other names and putting each other down in verbal horseplay)? Just loud talking? Jumping up and down and waving? Men spraying each other down with beer on a hot summer's day? Singing while you worked?
That wasn't my sentence....The phrase was just like yours, No matter who they are they should be able to act civilized" like white people. "After all it doesn't cost a thing."
Each society, in time and place, defines its standards of behavior.They would happily tell you they were nor prejudiced against any race, creed, or color -- So long as they acted civilized. It always comes down to that. "No matter who you are" you can "Act like a civilized person."
It is easy to see what side of the coin you are on. Do you see "being a lady" as the social ideal every woman of whatever race, creed, or color, should aspire too -- Or do you see a "lady" as a stuck up white broad who thinks she is better than everybody else?
Wow, you did grow up in a restricted environment.
Two of my cousins were on American Bandstand.
I took dance lessons that included formal ballroom (taught by Russian immigrant dancers), and all the "hot" new dances of the 60's. In our family, class had nothing to do with money or material wealth (which is a good thing since we had no money). It was about behavior and knowledge.
I was taught that politeness meant showing consideration for other people. I guess that might be considered unnatural.
Interesting. Were these the rules of just your family? Or were they the rules of your society? Or both?
I guess if it's a "WASP" society, then people moving into it would assimilate those behaviors, just as WASPs moving into other societies would assimilate the behaviors of the other societies?
Each society, in time and place, defines its standards of behavior.
I don't see anything ladylike about any woman, white, broad, or otherwise, who is stuck up or thinks she is better than everybody else.
Most hearing people, especially the professionals, train themselves to an unemotional, uninvolved, detached, robotic, mindset, somehow believing this is an attitude of superior intellect and reason. It comes from an ancient idea that humans are somehow superior to animals because they deny their emotions and their instincts and engage mind alone. The Greeks started it, and it has managed to continue to this day.
I frankly believe it is an unhealthy attitude.
Those who are the best at it are those who don't care about anyone or anything. What does that tell you?
That "WASP" restrictive environment is what I'm referring to. I suppose my immediate family environment would be considered WASP but it was nothing like what you experienced with your WASP relatives. One size does not fit all.No, I didn't. I am a halfbreed, remember? My mother was raised by whites. I wasn't. When she took up with another Indian they felt she had "reverted to type." It was not my environment. It was the WASP environment I was exposed to.
True. Now even people without Indian blood try to claim some.Of course now the general attitude towards Indians is no longer what it was in my youth. Now people with a teaspoon of Indian blood brag about their Native American ancestry. That wasn't the case then.
Yes, I remember.You are aware that Dick Clark, and American Bandstand, came under criticism for allowing non-whites and whites to mix on the dance floor? Another show, that followed a similar format, did not. Fortunately the show that survived was American Bandstand. So far as I know Dick Clark did not even acknowledge the controversy and it just disappeared.
Economically, middle class when I was little, lower middle class from about age 10 to 15, middle class for one year, then lower class again. Basically, poor during my teen and pre-teen years.From your posts I would consider you to have been raised middle class and to have suffered little or no prejudice yourself.
I never said that. Of course there are prejudiced people.It would also explain why you have such a hard time believing it even exists.
I earned money for my lessons, which weren't that expensive because the couple teaching them were Russian ex-pats who taught modern dance and baton, and had a parade unit that performed and competed. They did lots of stuff for little money. For my dance recital I wore a borrowed dress. (Most of my clothes were hand-me-downs from cousins, my grandmother and friends; it's funny that I was first-born yet I wore hand-me-downs; I had younger brother, so I couldn't pass them down. ) How many teenage girls now would wear hand-me-downs from their grandmothers?It wasn't about money? And you had no money? But your family had the money to pay for your dance lessons?
I admit that we had a black & white TV with rabbit ears and a party-line phone.In my neighborhood the rich kids had a TV and learned how to do the "hot" new dances of the sixties by watching American Bandstand. Nobody could afford dance lessons. Most of us couldn't afford a TV. I still don't have a clue how to dance any of those.
If someone is showing no consideration for others, that's not real politeness. Politeness and good etiquette is all about making others feel comfortable and respected.Politeness is only a small portion of manners. Also you can be excruciatingly polite and show absolutely no consideration for others.
So, their rules didn't apply to you?Neither. You missed the point. I'm a halfbreed. I have no society. As for family, there was none. Just my mother and myself. We lived between worlds as outsiders. Non white, non Christian, non Indian.
Yes, I did read it.I take it you did not read this Not Our Kind, Darling.
Or get off the path and set their own standards on the new path to positions of power.Those in positions of power set the standards of behavior and those who are not in power follow them or suffer the consequences.
You're right. What I consider a lady is not the same. To me, a lady wouldn't use ill manners, poor grammar, inappropriate clothing, crude or vulgar language, or mean attitude but she wouldn't pass out if anyone else did.What you see as "ladylike" and what being a lady consists of would appear to be at odds.
A lady is offended by ill manners, poor grammar, lack of courtliness, improper clothing, crudity, vulgarity, and all manner of other things. She is above them. A lady would never associate herself, or allow herself to be associated with, anyone with less than proper repute. Nor anyone who was of lower station than herself. That includes non protestants.
You are over looking a serious question if you are her boyfriend.
Do YOU understand what an interpreting career means to you?
Can YOU take the stress? Are you secure with yourself and your relationship?
This is from experience. My daughter is a terp.
Her current love interest and I are eating lunch at a popular restaurant with her. She taps on her blue tooth. "Hi,(name) what's up?"
BF, "My god we are eating lunch. Tell them to call back."
She squints at him. "Yes." head nod. "Yes." Frowns. "Twenty minutes." She stands up, wraps some food in a napkin, jams it into her purse.
BF, "Sit down. You can't leave. We are in the middle of lunch."
"Love you dad," she gives me a kiss and heads for the door.
BF, "Why didn't she kiss me goodbye too?"
"You pissed her off." I'm laughing, which does not help matters.
BF, "She didn't even tell us where she is going."
"Hippo law. (Yes, that is the way I pronounce it). Confidentiality. She can't."
BF, "She could be going to meet some guy in a motel right in front of me and how would I know?"
"You don't. You need another girl friend with a different kind of job. Lots of em out there."
BF, "If she marries me she won't need to work."
"If you are rich enough she would work Pro Bono." I add, "For free," in case he does not understand what "Pro Bono" means. "The situation would be the same. She loves what she does."
BF "We came in her car. How do I get home?"
"I'll take you. But first I'm going to finish my lunch. In the mean time there is a cute waitress over there. I'll bet she never gets phone calls like that." I watch the waitress and pretend I don't notice how he is glaring at me.
Is this book/CD ROM really worth $650 new? Or $274 used?
So You Want to Be an Interpreter? An Introduction to Sign Language Interpreting: Janice H. Humphrey: 9780976713265: Amazon.com: Books