Is it worth to be "oral"?

[deafdyke]

Approximately 13% of the U.S. population are those 65 and older according to the 2010 US Census. That would approximately translate to 4.6 million of them with hearing loss out of the 36 million people with hearing loss in the United States. You still have a size-able population of 31 million with hearing loss under the age of 65.

Many of those are still late deafened...you CAN go dhh as a teen or an adult!

 

[Jiro]

:dj:

interesting. no response from him about it.

I think you and I both know why

 

[kokonut]

Many of those are still late deafened...you CAN go dhh as a teen or an adult!

Yes, I know.

 

[kokonut]

..

I'm talking about people who have problems with people who have no problem being who they are and comfortable with their communication choice. They're the ignorant ones. They're the ones who are causing most of the frustration. If you are comfortable with ASL and fine for who you are but if people think you're dumb or have problems because of your deafness, etc, then they're the ignorant ones. No need for that thumbnail. You have it backward.

 

[deafdyke]

Why is it "emulating"? Have you considered the fact that most deaf kids come from hearing parents? What's wrong with children knowing their parents language(s) if there is a way to access it via cochlear implant/hearing aids. Sometimes that doesn't work and of course the main language should be sign language.

Would I be better off being restricted in my town to only communicating with my deaf friends and my 2 deaf siblings and my parents? Not being able to have in depth convos with my 5 hearing siblings who are mostly much older than me and past learning new languages? My many cousins, uncles and aunties and grandparents? My friends at school and now uni?

And I would have never gone to a school for the deaf either, my parents flat out refused to send us 4 hours up country to a shit school with shit teachers/staff.

Some of you guys never seem to consider us as having our own identities, our own thoughts about how we see ourselves and identities. You never think about the fact that we've used our CIs/HAs since birth (in my case, 3 years old ETA HAs from 3 yo, CI from 10) and it's become part of us. You don't think about how our hearing has impacted us - my deaf sister plays the piano the best in my family, and she used to play for hours during the afternoons and because of that I have an appreciation for piano music, my particular favourite piece being Ballade Pour Adeline. I would not be me if I hadn't gotten my CI at ten.
You just do this fake lament about how no one wants to 'emulate' "deafies" and it's just insincere and unappreciative of the fact that we're all different and live our lives in different ways.

Tomm,You're assuming that we're all advocating pure Sign with no training in oral abilty......It doesn't have to be an either or thing....Most dhh kids,including those at schools for the Deaf STILL get a pretty hefty dose of spoken language training (granted there are some exceptions like at the Utah Schools for the Deaf bi-bi program and some bad dhh regional programs)
Many of us here also hear quite well with aids/CIs etc......I do myself...BUT the "hearing" that we experiance isn't hearing person style hearing.....
We may like it and all.....but if tomorrow you woke up with normal hearing you'd be totally freaked out at what hearing people hear.....It would be like a hearing person waking up and experiancing what a cat or dog hears....or waking up with a sonar abilty like a bat....Would you even understand what hearing IS? The trouble is that hearing people have assumed that HOH (whether functional or audilogical) means more hearing then deaf.....
The HOH experiance IS distinctly different from being hearing.....Yes, there are many different ways to be HOH......but all in all it really isn't closer to being hearing.....even ex hearing/late deafened people complain about the limiations of technology,and not being able to really function well aurally in more then a one on one sitution.

 

[deafdyke]

That's a nice non answer. Honestly I can't take you seriously. After being in this site for over a year the only thing you ever post about is deaf schools/education and speech therapy. Ever. You never have anything to say about anything else. That's an obsession, and it's not healthy, and it isn't objective. That loss of objectivity makes your words almost meaningless to me. I actually can totally understand tomm stopping the lurking just to address your posts.

Ambrosia,I prefer to think of it as ADVOCATING..............And quite frankly the reason why I tend to advocate strongly but not speak out much on other issues is b/c this place got REALLY dull after a huge exodus...If you saw my Facebook feed, you would see my opinons on a VARIETY of things...it's just that this isn't my social life any more.I speak out on those issues in hopes of making a parent of a dhh kid think "OH....NOW I SEE!" That's basicly the ONLY reason I bother with this site any more.

 

[kokonut]

Tomm,You're assuming that we're all advocating pure Sign with no training in oral abilty......It doesn't have to be an either or thing....Most dhh kids,including those at schools for the Deaf STILL get a pretty hefty dose of spoken language training (granted there are some exceptions like at the Utah Schools for the Deaf bi-bi program and some bad dhh regional programs)
Many of us here also hear quite well with aids/CIs etc......I do myself...BUT the "hearing" that we experiance isn't hearing person style hearing.....
We may like it and all.....but if tomorrow you woke up with normal hearing you'd be totally freaked out at what hearing people hear.....It would be like a hearing person waking up and experiancing what a cat or dog hears....or waking up with a sonar abilty like a bat....Would you even understand what hearing IS? The trouble is that hearing people have assumed that HOH (whether functional or audilogical) means more hearing then deaf.....
The HOH experiance IS distinctly different from being hearing.....Yes, there are many different ways to be HOH......but all in all it really isn't closer to being hearing.....even ex hearing/late deafened people complain about the limiations of technology,and not being able to really function well aurally in more then a one on one sitution.

I don't see anything what Tomm said that points out him assuming that deaf people are advocating for pure sign language. He did say, "...of course the main language should be sign language."

 

[deafdyke]

Most HH people would require certain accommodation based on different needs. Accommodation varies.

BTW, HH also includes people with mild hearing loss, too.

Don't talk like a deaf person? What do you mean? Do you have a video of yourself talking?

Yes,I know...the goal of oral deaf education is to get dhh kids functioning more like a kid with a mild loss.......And mild loss kids are STILL very much HARD of hearing...They still experiance a LOT of the exact same stuff that kids with deafer losses do.....Mild does not mean "not affected" or "can function exactly like a hearing person"...You do know back in the '70's a LOT of unaided MILD and other HOH kids were misdx as mentally disabled right?
I really do not know what my TOD friend meant when she told me that I don't talk like a deaf person.......people tell me I have a deaf accent. Some wrongly assume that means I'm mentally disabled as well.

 

[deafdyke]

You may find it annoying to hear it over and over, but anybody who actually grew up deaf has had the experience of not being considered bright over and over.

My father always wanted to be sure my hair was back and hearing aids showed, I think just because it upset him so much that people wouldn't understand I am deaf not stupid.

Agreed..............Thank you Botti! It's a very common experiance

 

[deafdyke]

Exactly. Stupid people are EVERYWHERE!!! I just don't believe when I tell someone I'm deaf they automatically think I'm stupid. I think most of them think I'm deaf. :P

Ummmm, not quite...They don't think I'm stupid b/c I'm deaf....they hear my deaf accent (which can sound a lot like someone with MR) and assume I'm "special needs" exclusively based on that.
And I'll grant you a lot of the people who DO think that seem to be almost mentally handicapped themselves....Either that or they tend to be very superfical/prejudicated....Still does seem like there's a TON of hearing people like that out there........I tend to hit it off mostly with offbeat hearies....

 

[deafdyke]

I worked for Farmers Insurance in the early 90s and even in adulthood, I was isolated by my peers because people didn't want to go out of their way to have lengthy conversations with me. I would sit with my coworkers at lunch and try to engage in conversations but they would give me short and curt replies not giving me a chance to become engaged in conversations with them. Just like in middle and high school, I slowly withdrew to myself and ate alone. I was really upset that it was still happening even as an adult.

Even worse, during meetings, I came up with ideas and the administrators would give me that goofy smile and say stuff like "Oh that's good good good good" nodding their heads up and down in an exaggerated way. Made me feel like I was a child or someone not to be taken seriously.

My speech was so good that everyone could understand me clearly but yet I was treated like someone who didn't have a mind of her own.

If I had ASL and the Deaf community at the time, I would have had much more confidence in myself and squashed that bullshit behavior right there but I grew up in the hearing world and I was never given the opportunity to feel that my voice matters so I thought they knew best. I started believing that I was not as smart as they were. That was what oralism did to me. Apparently it did the same to many other deaf/hoh people.

OMG............don't you just HATE that....hearing people treating you like you have Down's Syndrome or something?

 

[kokonut]

Yes,I know...the goal of oral deaf education is to get dhh kids functioning more like a kid with a mild loss.......And mild loss kids are STILL very much HARD of hearing...They still experiance a LOT of the exact same stuff that kids with deafer losses do.....Mild does not mean "not affected" or "can function exactly like a hearing person"...You do know back in the '70's a LOT of unaided MILD and other HOH kids were misdx as mentally disabled right?
I really do not know what my TOD friend meant when she told me that I don't talk like a deaf person.......people tell me I have a deaf accent. Some wrongly assume that means I'm mentally disabled as well.

Kids with mild hearing loss were misdiagnosed as being "mentally disabled"? Riight. Do you have something to back up your assertions or claims?

 

[deafdyke]

I don't see anything what Tomm said that points out him assuming that deaf people are advocating for pure sign language. He did say, "...of course the main language should be sign language."

I reconize a lot of oral only "OMG those deaf people who are advocating for Sign want sign exclusive approach" rhetoric......He really does sound almost like a lot of the oral only parents on FB.....I think if he observed at READS,the New Bedford MA Deaf classes,Maryland Schools for the Deaf,and many other Deaf ed programs,he would be blown away that yes....dhh kids can learn to BOTH speak and Sign and thus be BILINGAL!

 

[kokonut]

I reconize a lot of oral only "OMG those deaf people who are advocating for Sign want sign exclusive approach" rhetoric......He really does sound almost like a lot of the oral only parents on FB.....I think if he observed at READS,the New Bedford MA Deaf classes,Maryland Schools for the Deaf,and many other Deaf ed programs,he would be blown away that yes....dhh kids can learn to BOTH speak and Sign and thus be BILINGAL!

You are taking things way out of proportion by making these, imho, ridiculous assumptions about him or what he supposedly think or would react based on a few comments he made so far in such an accusatory tone. Tomm in fact did say,"Yes, it'd be great if deaf kids were bilingual in both a sign language and an oral language...."

 

[Mewtilation]

Well, I was made like I was not as intelligent as they were. I wonder why?

I don't for a second take you for an unintelligent person. Regardless you're always going to have a pompous a$$ hat out there who thinks they're better and smarter than you. Hell, I hold two Masters degrees and I meet High School drop outs working at McDonalds that think they can come into the ER and tell me what's wrong with their friend! Like they know better than I do. It happens.... a.... lot. Always know it all's that know everything there is to know about everything. Those people... are ignorant.... twat waffles. Ignorance runs high these days, it's everywhere along with its close friend stupidity. As I said, I don't take you for an unintelligent person, and I don't think most people out there think you're unintelligent just because you can't hear. The one's that do are ignorant and not worth your time. I'm glad you're out of the situation where those people got frustrated with you because they can't be patient. It's a very good feeling. I know what it's like to have people be frustrated with you and get fed up because you ask to repeat a lot. I never had hearing aids as a kid, I was just completely deaf. Believe me.... I know. Not just from interactions with strangers, but even my family. My only point in this thing is refusing to believe MOST hearies think deafies are stupid simply because they're deaf. Yes they may get fed up, but just because I get fed up with someone ( we all do at some point ) Doesn't mean I think they're stupid.

 

[KikLove]

A lot of the issue is sometimes us (hearing) have never been around deaf/HOH people much. I think also on both sides of the arguments we have stereotyped deaf, HOH, and hearing people too much.

If I were to have met someone with a deaf accent before my hearing loss, I would have assumed they were deaf and I'd be lost at how I could be respectful to the person. Now having it makes me want to know ASL but also wonder how I could speak to them (ASL/whatever).

I'm not picking sides since I have mild/moderate loss but I know people that would assume they're just deaf and others would ask why they sound "stupid." It's hearing people stereotyping the deaf/HOH. Just like deaf/HOH stereotyping hearing people all as annoying because they don't try to accommodate you.

 

[Mewtilation]

Agreed..............Thank you Botti! It's a very common experiance

It would be better support of you if I wasn't BORN Deaf. I was BORN Deaf... She did not know that prior to the post I suppose, but again born Deaf. I am not late deafened.

P.S. Experience*

 

[Mewtilation]

A lot of the issue is sometimes us (hearing) have never been around deaf/HOH people much. I think also on both sides of the arguments we have stereotyped deaf, HOH, and hearing people too much.

If I were to have met someone with a deaf accent before my hearing loss, I would have assumed they were deaf and I'd be lost at how I could be respectful to the person. Now having it makes me want to know ASL but also wonder how I could speak to them (ASL/whatever).

I'm not picking sides since I have mild/moderate loss but I know people that would assume they're just deaf and others would ask why they sound "stupid." It's hearing people stereotyping the deaf/HOH. Just like deaf/HOH stereotyping hearing people all as annoying because they don't try to accommodate you.

Why do they sound stupid, is a lot different than They're stupid. Definitely. Good point, I know a lot of hearies haven't had interactions with the Deaf. Asking why someone sounds retarded isn't saying they are. :P Definitely a good point.

 

[KikLove]

And that question is because a lack of understanding hearing loss and/or natural language development.

 

[Bottesini]

It would be better support of you if I wasn't BORN Deaf. I was BORN Deaf... She did not know that prior to the post I suppose, but again born Deaf. I am not late deafened.

P.S. Experience*

Quite true, I have no idea you are a born deaf person with that perspective on life.

And I don't support any viewpoint. I make an observation of what it is like to go through life and interactions, and the common things that happen in that situation.

I know many people who have the same experience and attitude as myself.