Is it ever ok for kids NOT to use ASL?

[Mrs Bucket]

I can tell you with certainty that I am not questioning her parenting methods. In fact, I praise it. Too bad more parents aren't like her, otherwise we wouldn't be here arguing, correct? Hence my point is that parents don't always know what to do with the deaf child BY THEMSELVES. They usually confer with "the experts" and let them take care of it. Not to say that they don't care, they just don't have that innate ability to SUDDENLY know what to do for something they have no or little experience with.

I apologise for my misunderstanding.

Yes I must agree with you that I do wish more parents are like jillio and this is why we are being emotionally involved because we care about the future generation.

I know I am emotionally involved because I wouldn't want what happened in the past and what I went through to happen to my nieces and nephews.

"The experts" like you say and I agree wholeheartedly with your statement. I couldn't have said it any better than you said.

My Deaf niece and nephew are in a much better school system. They're being taught by the Deaf teachers that have been through so much like I have and in fact they are the same classmates as my brother in law's.

The teachers that teaches my niece and nephew want to break the cycle of poor education.

 

[Daredevel7]

I apologise for my misunderstanding.

Yes I must agree with you that I do wish more parents are like jillio and this is why we are being emotionally involved because we care about the future generation.

I know I am emotionally involved because I wouldn't want what happened in the past and what I went through to happen to my nieces and nephews.

"The experts" like you say and I agree wholeheartedly with your statement. I couldn't have said it any better than you said.

My Deaf niece and nephew are in a much better school system. They're being taught by the Deaf teachers that have been through so much like I have and in fact they are the same classmates as my brother in law's.

The teachers that teaches my niece and nephew want to break the cycle of poor education.

I think this issue adds the fuel for the idea of being "against ASL". Maybe I'm wrong but I'd think more parents would be willing to teach their child ASL if more schools for the deaf had better standards. I don't think they are against ASL per se, but rather the services that come with ASL, if that makes sense?

The lacking of teachers probably affects Deaf Ed more than mainstream schools.

Sorry if I sounded mean earlier, Mrs. Bucket and Jillio!

 

[deafskeptic]

I have a feeling that most ADers are in support of giving deaf children opportunities to learn oral skills along with ASL.

I think you'd be quite correct in your feelings.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

I think this issue adds the fuel for the idea of being "against ASL". Maybe I'm wrong but I'd think more parents would be willing to teach their child ASL if more schools for the deaf had better standards. I don't think they are against ASL per se, but rather the services that come with ASL, if that makes sense?

The lacking of teachers probably affects Deaf Ed more than mainstream schools.

Sorry if I sounded mean earlier, Mrs. Bucket and Jillio!

Oh it's okay, you weren't mean at all.. it showed concern at your part and that's what we all need as a collective.

It would be wonderful to channel all this collective effort towards the same cause, eh?

Sometimes it takes great minds to debate on and on whereas little children just get along fine.

Complicated, eh?

 

[deafskeptic]

Well, let me ask you this:

Why would you deny it to a deaf child?

Simply because he's deaf so sign is bad for him according to "common sense". :roll:

 

[jillio]

That would apply for those who are still learning language. But for those who have well developed written English skills...? Written English does not make sense visually at all either.

Also, I find it kind of amazing that you taught your son 1) Important information 2) How to lipread the important questions 3) How to say the important information all before kindergarten.

And you're a typical parent? With a sudden expertise in speech therapy?

The majority of children are already lipreading single important words before they are ever diagnosed. Do they relate the word being spoken as an auditory cue to the mouth shape and facial expression? No. They only know that that mouth shape and facial expression can be related to a particular concept in their environment. It is a visual understanding that is a natural adaptation to their lack of auditory input.

My son began early intervention at the age of 9 months. It is not unusual at all that he could state his name, my name, and our address prior to beginning kindergarten. He had the advantage of sign from the time that he was an infant. Therefore, he suffered very slight language delays, and was raised in a completely bi-lingual environment. It is not unusual for a hearing child to be able to learn and repeat such information. Why would it be unusual for a deaf child who was given proper language models?

And, yes, thanks to books purchased from Gallaudet of the common children's stories that contained not just print text, but the sign for the word under the print, my son was able to develop advanced reading skills for his age. Why? Because he was in a bi-lingual atmosphere that provided information in a language he could easily master. Therefore, he was able to make the connection that the sign for an object, the printed word for an object, and the spoken word for an object were all basically the same thing...just a symbol that represented something else.

All of these materials are still available to parents. All they have to do is access them for their children. The Deaf community is still available to answer questions regarding what it is to be a deaf child. The books I read to assist myself are still available. Parents only need take advantage of that. Perhaps if they chose to spend time understanding the child they have, and working with their strengths, instead of focusing on the weaknesses and what they want their child to be, they would see the same results I have seen, not just in my own child, but in other children whose parents made decisions the same way I did.

 

[rick48]

Is there ever a situation in which it is ok for a child with a hearing loss NOT to be given ASL?
A mild hearing loss?
Post lingually deafened?

Is it ever ok?

Yes.

As the parent of such a child who, BTW is prelingually profoundly deaf, the parental decision is not one that requires or needs an "OK" or the approval of anyone outside of the family.

The decision as to what mode and/or method of language and communication that you will use with your child is an individual one, based on different variables and one that should be constantly re-evaluated as your child develops or does not develop.

Finally, the decision we made for our child is unique and please do not interpret it as being one that I advocate for every deaf child.
Thanks,
Rick

 

[jillio]

I can tell you with certainty that I am not questioning her parenting methods. In fact, I praise it. Too bad more parents aren't like her, otherwise we wouldn't be here arguing, correct? Hence my point is that parents don't always know what to do with the deaf child BY THEMSELVES. They usually confer with "the experts" and let them take care of it. Not to say that they don't care, they just don't have that innate ability to SUDDENLY know what to do for something they have no or little experience with.

I didn't know what to do by myself, either. That is why I went to the true experts...the Deaf/deaf community. Only they could tell me what a deaf child needs. They lived it.

I also relied on the experts in deaf education and deaf psychology that assumed a deaf perspective in their work.

Parents are constantly reminded to look at things from their child's perspective when you raise them and to create an atmosphere of understanding and appropriate support and communication by understanding their perspective. If you are going to attempt to see things from that child's perspective, why wouldn't you include their deafness as a part of their perspective?

 

[Jiro]

Ah! But I'm not questing her parenting. I am questioning her description of herself being a "typical parent". You said so yourself, she was doing "effective parenting". Would you say this is normal for a hearing parent of a deaf child?

yes. my parents are the one (except ASL).

 

[jillio]

I think this issue adds the fuel for the idea of being "against ASL". Maybe I'm wrong but I'd think more parents would be willing to teach their child ASL if more schools for the deaf had better standards. I don't think they are against ASL per se, but rather the services that come with ASL, if that makes sense?

The lacking of teachers probably affects Deaf Ed more than mainstream schools.
Sorry if I sounded mean earlier, Mrs. Bucket and Jillio!

When Bi-Bi was the norm for deaf education, there was no lack of Deaf teachers. You can thank the oral movement for removing deaf individuals from the field of education.

The majoroity of deaf schools now adhere to state standards, and therefore have the same standards as the public school system.

 

[Jiro]

I can tell you with certainty that I am not questioning her parenting methods. In fact, I praise it. Too bad more parents aren't like her, otherwise we wouldn't be here arguing, correct? Hence my point is that parents don't always know what to do with the deaf child BY THEMSELVES. They usually confer with "the experts" and let them take care of it. Not to say that they don't care, they just don't have that innate ability to SUDDENLY know what to do for something they have no or little experience with.

with tireless diligence and goal in mind especially when it comes to your own child, yes you can be an expert... even better than doctor. That didn't stop Augusto Odone from finding the cure for his son, eh? even though he had NO medical degree or education.

 

[jillio]

with tireless diligence and goal in mind especially when it comes to your own child, yes you can be an expert... even better than doctor. That didn't stop Augusto Odone from finding the cure for his son, eh? even thought he had NO medical degree or education.

Yes. I find it a bit odd that this thread has suddenly taken a turn toward a discussion of parenting decisions. This thread isn't about me, or any other parent, for that matter. It is about what is best for deaf children. It is about what a child can do, not what they can't. Take what they can do, and build on those strengths. Focus on their abilities, not their disabilities. Your time will be much better spent, and your child will be less frustrated. A less frustrated child in infinately easier to teach.

When a parent brings a newborn home from the hospital, they adapt to that newborns needs. The parent's schedule for sleep changes, there are suddenly bright colors everywhere in the house to adapt to the child's need for stimulation, parental schedules change to include trips to the park, and for play dates. The nature of the food in the fridge changes, and we adapt to changing diapers instead of flushing a toilet. Why, oh why, is it so difficult to understand that raising a deaf child is simply building on the changes and adaptations to out children that we already make? We just have to carry it one step further, and adapt to their language needs, as well. That is not something heroic. It is simply expanding on the adaptations a parent already makes, and is expected to make.

 

[shel90]

When Bi-Bi was the norm for deaf education, there was no lack of Deaf teachers. You can thank the oral movement for removing deaf individuals from the field of education.

The majoroity of deaf schools now adhere to state standards, and therefore have the same standards as the public school system.

Oh yea, we use the public school curriculm and standards. I and all the other teachers each have this huge black book with all the standards for each content area for each grade level. It is a mighty heavy book!

 

[jillio]

Oh yea, we use the public school curriculm and standards. I and all the other teachers each have this huge black book with all the standards for each content area for each grade level. It is a mighty heavy book!

Yes, it is. People who consistently complain that public schools offer a better education usually don't know anything about the curriculum or standards of a deaf school.

 

[shel90]

Yes. I find it a bit odd that this thread has suddenly taken a turn toward a discussion of parenting decisions. This thread isn't about me, or any other parent, for that matter. It is about what is best for deaf children. It is about what a child can do, not what they can't. Take what they can do, and build on those strengths. Focus on their abilities, not their disabilities. Your time will be much better spent, and your child will be less frustrated. A less frustrated child in infinately easier to teach.

When a parent brings a newborn home from the hospital, they adapt to that newborns needs. The parent's schedule for sleep changes, there are suddenly bright colors everywhere in the house to adapt to the child's need for stimulation, parental schedules change to include trips to the park, and for play dates. The nature of the food in the fridge changes, and we adapt to changing diapers instead of flushing a toilet. Why, oh why, is it so difficult to understand that raising a deaf child is simply building on the changes and adaptations to out children that we already make? We just have to carry it one step further, and adapt to their language needs, as well. That is not something heroic. It is simply expanding on the adaptations a parent already makes, and is expected to make.

If the child is unable to walk, would the parents adapt their house to accompany the child's wheelchair or if the child is austistic, would they modify their house to reduce the level of stimulation? I have met parents who have children with these needs plus others and I have seen hwo their homes have been modified to meet their needs. However, when I go to deaf children's homes, spoken language is usually still being used without any visual cues. If you would have gone to my mom's house, maybe the tty would be an only incidicator that deaf people lived there.

 

[shel90]

Yes, it is. People who consistently complain that public schools offer a better education usually don't know anything about the curriculum or standards of a deaf school.

Bingo!

 

[jillio]

If the child is unable to walk, would the parents adapt their house to accompany the child's wheelchair or if the child is austistic, would they modify their house to reduce the level of stimulation? I have met parents who have children with these needs plus others and I have seen how their homes have been modified to meet their needs. However, when I go to deaf children's homes, spoken language is usually still being used without any visual cues. If you would have gone to my mom's house, maybe the tty would be an only incidicator that deaf people lived there.

Exactly. A parent will adapt to a child's inability to walk in order to focus on their ability to be mobile in other ways. Or they will adapt their home for the autism in order to prevent overstimulation and create an environment that allows that child to use their strengths in focusing. Even for children without disabilities, we constantly adapt to their needs. Such as having a step stool in the bathroom so the child can brush their teeth without assistance. We don't take them to the doctor and demand that their legs be lengthened so they can reach the sink. We provide the tools necessary so they can reach it just as they are. Learning and using sign is simply another way of adapting to our child's needs.

 

[Daredevel7]

yes. my parents are the one (except ASL).

Ooh effective parenting without ASL... *gasp*

Sounds like you're saying that it IS okay not to teach kids ASL......?

with tireless diligence and goal in mind especially when it comes to your own child, yes you can be an expert... even better than doctor. That didn't stop Augusto Odone from finding the cure for his son, eh? even though he had NO medical degree or education.

And how long did it take him...? Isn't time a factor in deaf kids..? Imagine you're a parent.... the doctors are screaming at you "OMG YOU NEED TO DO CI NOW! Don't listen to the deaf people, they have an agenda and are close minded!" the deaf people are screaming at you "OMG YOU NEED TO DO ASL NOW! Don't listen to the doctors. We are the true experts. We know what we are talking about!"

Not that simple!

 

[Jiro]

Ooh effective parenting without ASL... *gasp*

Sounds like you're saying that it IS okay not to teach kids ASL......?

no. I'm referring to your post about the fact that good parents take initiatives for their child - hence effective parenting. Again they did the best they can with the information available at that time and they were constantly overlooking my progress and making sure I get most out of it. back in 80's, the stigma about deaf was strong and the information was very limited and confusing. To make matter more difficult for them, my parents were foreigners... with limited English.

I don't doubt that they would have approached differently than before if I were born today. They'll probably place me in bibi program and ASL-first.

And how long did it take him...? Isn't time a factor in deaf kids..? Imagine you're a parent.... the doctors are screaming at you "OMG YOU NEED TO DO CI NOW! Don't listen to the deaf people, they have an agenda and are close minded!" the deaf people are screaming at you "OMG YOU NEED TO DO ASL NOW! Don't listen to the doctors. We are the true experts. We know what we are talking about!"

Not that simple!

CI or deaf or HOH.... ASL-first approach has been proven more effective than oral-first approach.

 

[Daredevel7]

CI or deaf or HOH.... ASL-first approach has been proven more effective than oral-first approach.

Of course it is more effective. ASL works for pretty much every deaf child in terms of language development. The only thing I'm against is the idea that ASL has absolutely no consequence for someone who has natural lipreading abilities or can hear well enough to repeat what the speaker says. For those kids, they can learn ENGLISH and practice speaking/lipreading at the same time. They can learn ASL all they want later to take advantage of social gatherings, services, what have you.

But of course, apparently to some people, this type of ability is far and few in between, plus if they even have that ability "They will develop that ANYWAY" with ASL. When I see someone saying "I'd rather not talk", sometimes I wonder if its because they haven't had any practice or enough practice to feel comfortable to speak, not because they don't have the ability.

If you wanna look at Deaf education based on purely statistics, then the clear winner is most likely ASL as L1, but I will never be convinced that ASL first is the best idea for every single HoH/deaf person.