Is God Perfect?

[lumbingmi]

No spin, and no violation.
Does anyone deserve death? We all have an end in death because of our inherited sin nature. Everyone will die (excepting the Rapture happen before our deaths). Is dying in a hospital bed of old age more or less "deserving" than dying in a natural disaster?

Hebrews 9
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:


The real concern is not the manner or time of death but what happens after the body dies.

Natural disasters sweep away the righteous and the unrighteous.

Matthew 5:45
...he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

The gracious miracle is that God lets us live yet another day.

Rightttt.. you support the notion that God works in mysterious way and have plan for all of us. I am sure God is loving every moment of our American Solider and innocents dying everyday at Iraq because God felt that people who residing at Iraq do not deserve "gracious miracle" to live for another day. Okay I think I got what you mean.

 

[Reba]

Thank you for evading my questions. There are around 4.5 billions in China and none of them believe in your God. I guess God dont care about them.

God does care; that's why He sends missionaries around the world.

BTW, your statement about China is false. There are thousands of born-again Christians in China. They have been worshiping underground for decades.

 

[Reba]

Rightttt.. you support the notion that God works in mysterious way and have plan for all of us. I am sure God is loving every moment of our American Solider and innocents dying everyday at Iraq because God felt that people who residing at Iraq do not deserve "gracious miracle" to live for another day. Okay I think I got what you mean.

No, you don't "get it" at all, and your snarky statement about God getting pleasure from people dying is beyond civil debate.

 

[lumbingmi]

God caused the external events. Pharaoh hardened his own heart as his own response. Instead of humbling himself and surrendering to God's will and commands, Pharaoh remained prideful and disobedient. That was his choice.

And the LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.
God said he will make sure Pharaoh's heart to be harden. therefore, God intended Pharaoh to resist Moses so that God can display his awesome powers.

God does care; that's why He sends missionaries around the world.

BTW, your statement about China is false. There are thousands of born-again Christians in China. They have been worshiping underground for decades.

I know there are several countries who finally break off the oppression. India comes to my mind, for many years Britains brought missionaries and colonized India. Few years ago, India finally put end to it and rejected missionaries.

OK here s quotes:

China is officially atheist[1]. And around 59%-71% of its population are non-religious[2] (14% are totally atheists[3][4]; remains of it are people who still worship one or more religions at the same time but lacking specific ceremonies as Refuge of Buddhism or Baptism although they have considered themselves as non-religious[5][6]).

Religion in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It s pretty high percentage considering China has over 4 billions people.

No, you don't "get it" at all, and your snarky statement about God getting pleasure from people dying is beyond civil debate.

Okay. I shouldn't say God is enjoying every bit of it and I apologize for it. The point is that why should we being thankful for God giving us another day to live? It sounds like God is doing it at random and cause people's death just because God said so. It doesn't make any sense but we can't do anything since it is God's will, right?

 

[TechBill]

And the LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.

Yes when God did all those wonders before Pharaoh, it made Pharaoh mad because he couldn't defeat God's wonders so it harden his heart and held on to people even more.

God didn't touch his heart and made it hard or said a magic word and Pharaoh became a evil man. God only perform those wonders and warned Moses that his wonders will get Pharaoh angry and to be prepared for a long struggle to free the people.




.

 

[lumbingmi]

Yes when God did all those wonders before Pharaoh, it made Pharaoh mad because he couldn't defeat God's wonders so it harden his heart and held on to people even more.

God didn't touch his heart and made it hard or said a magic word and Pharaoh became a evil man. God only perform those wonders and warned Moses that his wonders will get Pharaoh angry and to be prepared for a long struggle to free the people.
.

Looks like we ll have to agree to disagree what it is being interpreted in bible.

When you think about it, if God have such amazing powers, it should be piece of cake for him to just get his people out (casting them to be invisible so they walk out of Egypt untouchable lol) of Egypt instead of having to resort to killing many innocents especially first-born kids in Egypt?

 

[Secretblend]

Looks like we ll have to agree to disagree what it is being interpreted in bible.

When you think about it, if God have such amazing powers, it should be piece of cake for him to just get his people out (casting them to be invisible so they walk out of Egypt untouchable lol) of Egypt instead of having to resort to killing many innocents especially first-born kids in Egypt?

Oh it'll be a piece of cake for him to speak this world into non existance. However, for a reason of his own, He rather love us and give us a chance for eternal life.

 

[lumbingmi]

Oh it'll be a piece of cake for him to speak this world into non existance. However, for a reason of his own, He rather love us and give us a chance for eternal life.

I dont understand what do you mean "speaking this world into non-existance."

Yea God loves so much that he created Satan to test our love for God.

 

[Secretblend]

I dont understand what do you mean "speaking this world into non-existance."

Yea God loves so much that he created Satan to test our love for God.

He spoke this world into existance, He could take it way awith just one word..

He didn't create Satan, God made an angel and the angel turned himself into Satan.

 

[lumbingmi]

He spoke this world into existance, He could take it way awith just one word..

He didn't create Satan, God made an angel and the angel turned himself into Satan.

Ohhh.. crap. We dont want to make God angry, do we? After all , he have the power to strip our precious existence. *shudder in fear* Yikes.

Ok. God created Angel then Angel became Satan. Gotcha.

 

[Secretblend]

Ohhh.. crap. We dont want to make God angry, do we? After all , he have the power to strip our precious existence. *shudder in fear* Yikes.

Ok. God created Angel then Angel became Satan. Gotcha.

being scarcastic??

 

[TechBill]

Ohhh.. crap. We dont want to make God angry, do we? After all , he have the power to strip our precious existence. *shudder in fear* Yikes.

Ok. God created Angel then Angel became Satan. Gotcha.

We already made him angry but his love for us is holding him back.

 

[lumbingmi]

being scarcastic??

Huh? It s fact right? You said God created Angel (Lucifer) but somehow this angel sudden had epiphany and decided to turn against God. Thus the quest of Satan had begun - recruiting people on this earth to be his soldiers but lucky for us, Jesus came to Earth and die on the cross so that we can finally have access to the heaven. Before it was hopeless but now it is not hopeless anymore as long we accept Jesus Christ as our savior. Whew.

 

[Secretblend]

Huh? It s fact right? You said God created Angel (Lucifer) but somehow this angel sudden had epiphany and decided to turn against God. Thus the quest of Satan had begun - recruiting people on this earth to be his soldiers but lucky for us, Jesus came to Earth and die on the cross so that we can finally have access to the heaven. Before it was hopeless but now it is not hopeless anymore as long we accept Jesus Christ as our savior. Whew.

Except for the bold area, yes I see it as a fact. Satan goal is to destroy God's creation. That is why He tempted Eve and then Adam.

Sorry, was just making sure of what you meant when you said that. Hard to tell of tone on here.

 

[lumbingmi]

We already made him angry but his love for us is holding him back.

I guess all father should emulate him.

Except for the bold area, yes I see it as a fact. Satan goal is to destroy God's creation. That is why He tempted Eve and then Adam.

Sorry, was just making sure of what you meant when you said that. Hard to tell of tone on here.

We are soliders of Satan at the moment when we are born. Lucky for us, Jesus provided us a way out of this.

 

[Reba]

And the LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.
God said he will make sure Pharaoh's heart to be harden. therefore, God intended Pharaoh to resist Moses so that God can display his awesome powers.

No. God knew that the demands that Moses made to Pharaoh would result in Pharaoh resisting (hardening his heart) against Moses, the Jews, and God. God didn't give Moses those demands in order to harden Pharaoh's heart. God wanted Pharaoh to let the Jews leave. But God knew the heart of Pharaoh, and knew that Pharaoh would become more resistant.

God was warning Moses that His (God's) actions would result in Pharaoh hardening his heart. But Pharaoh's decisions were all his own.

Exodus 8:15
But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exodus 8:32
And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

Exodus 9:34
And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants.

I know there are several countries who finally break off the oppression. India comes to my mind, for many years Britains brought missionaries and colonized India. Few years ago, India finally put end to it and rejected missionaries.

Missionaries who bring the Gospel to people are not oppressors. Don't confuse colonizers with real missionaries.

BTW, there are still Christian missionaries and Christian Indians doing the Lord's work in India.

OK here s quotes:

Religion in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It s pretty high percentage considering China has over 4 billions people.

OK; my statement was correct; the underground church lives on in China.

Okay. I shouldn't say God is enjoying every bit of it and I apologize for it.

Accepted.

The point is that why should we being thankful for God giving us another day to live? It sounds like God is doing it at random and cause people's death just because God said so. It doesn't make any sense but we can't do anything since it is God's will, right?

It doesn't make sense to us because we see things with the limited vision and wisdom of mortals. What seems random to us is actually part of a larger plan, of a scope that we can't comprehend. And yet, God still takes a personal interest and concern in each of us as individuals.

Luke 12
4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. 6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? 7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

 

[VamPyroX]

If God really love Eve and Adam then forgive them for their mistake for being tricked instead of kick them out of Eden Garden.

It´s God´s responsible for give Eve and Adam freewill to touch the forbidden fruit tree or not. Yes it´s his mistake to place the forbidden fruit tree and let Satan to tempt Eve and Adam.

Interfere? Are you saying that we should not interfere if our children tempted their curious to hurt themselves or disobey us?

Where's God's forgiveness?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You are right; there is no excuse for blaming God for anything. God makes no mistakes, so we can't blame Him when things go wrong.

History is History. We people need to know where it come from... The history could not deny the fact that the Tree of Knowledge was being placed in first place. I am not angry and blame God for that but accept the fact that it´s his way to discipline Eve and Adam like this. Eve was being tricked by Satan, that´s how it was begin. I guess it would never happen if Tree of Knowledge was not placed in first place. I accept the fact what kind of life we have and positive our life without blame anyone including God.

They made their choices, and so they must accept the consequences that go with those choices. They knew what would happen before they made their choices.

You said other posts that Eve and Adam are adult to make their own choice and now you said that they must accept the consequences with those choices. It sound illogical to me.

Reality: My children are still my responsible and accept the consequences as long as they live under my house until they are adult and move out and make their own free choice.

God gave Eve and Adam freewill to make their choice which mean is their own choice.

Adam and Eve weren't children.

To me, yes they were "children" because they were very first couple on the earth and too naive and little knowledge. They need being feed by God what right or wrong like what we feed our children what right or wrong.

Why do you ask this again and again? Many people have answered you multiple times. Do you expect the answer to change?

For the umpteenth time, Jesus volunteered to take our penalty upon Himself because He loves us and doesn't want us to suffer for eternity.

Many?, nope but a few people. Those answer doesn´t support my logic.

Again, IF God is powerful, loving and forgiving as what religion believers claim then not necassary to send his son to suffer to death for our sins. Why can´t God simple forgive the sins itself without send his son to the earth to suffer to death for us? That´s those answer from some people doesn´t convince my logic arguement.

Which "specialists" take care of your eternal soul?

I thought you know which specialist what I referred to?

specialist

Definition:
1. somebody in particular interest: somebody who specializes in an occupation, interest, or field of study

2. type of physician: a medical doctor who practices in a specific field

specialist definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta

To which people specifically are you referring? To whom are they praying? Why are there poor people in third-world countries? What is the cause of their poverty? What's happening in five years?

I created a thread about them under Current Event several weeks ago.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If God did not kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, they would live on the earth forever. When God said that if they eat a forbidden fruit, they will surely die. God kept His words honestly.

This is an illogical. Accord my Bible, *copied part of what my bible wrote* God punished them because they did something God told them not to do. God kept that tree as his own. And we know it is wrong to take something that belongs to someone else, don´t we? Well what happened? The serprent was able to fool Eve.... that´s why they lost their beautiful garden home for being punishment to disobey God. It´s very sad fact is Eve was being TRICKED to beleive Satan´s word.[COLOR]

God did not make any mistakes.

This is your opinion.

God instructed Adam concerning the tree and Adam rebelled against God after he ate it. God gave him the freewill for everything, but one rule on one tree. Adam is responsibile for his rebellion against God by becoming a sinner.

Rebellion? This is a pretty illogical! They are very naive couple to have no knowledge what good or bad. That doesn´t mean that Eve and Adam were rebelled against God that´s because Eve made an innoncent mistake to beleive in Satan´s lie with no knowledge what right or wrong.

Adam and Eve were NOT babies! They were fully mature.

I never said Adam and Eve were babies but toddler and children. No, I disagree that they were fully mature since they have no knowledge what good or bad. They never being taught what good or bad by God. To me, they were "children" because they were very first couple and alone on the earth with no knowledge until God fed them positive things like name animals, etc.

You blame on God repeatedly.

No, I look at fact logic.

The reason that God tested is the tree of knowledge of good and evil because of the Satan.

See your own word. I say no further. but my bible did not say that Satan was reason why God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil to test.

If the Satan did NOT tempt Eve, then God CANNOT judge against him.

Well accord my Bible - If only Adam & Eve had obeyed God, life would have been happy for them & their children. They could all have lived forever in happiness on earth. No one would have had to grow old, get sick and die.

If so, Jesus CANNOT save us.

The Temple must be holy because God is holy. Well, God is angry. You are angry. Do you have a good reason by getting angry? If so, likewise God does.

Exactly!!! You got it!!! Yes, we have good reason for angry which it´s not supposed to be. We should use our logic to patience with anyone but we doesn´t. It shows itself is IMPERFECT.

You twisted the Scriptures repeatedly. Shame on you. If God is mistaken, then He would destroy His holiness. No plan of Salvation!

*shake my head quietly*

I do not see anything that I twisted the Scriptures but the fact is I use LOGIC view on bible interpretation.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Adam and Eve weren't toddlers.

To me, yes they wree "toddler" because they have no knowledge what right and wrong because every toddlers have no knowledge what it is about.

Are you still going to control your sons' actions when they are adults?

I do not see anything where I say about adults but toddlers and children. I do not find any posts, I posted the word about adults. If you claimed I did then show me please.

God's character did not change. The transition from OT to NT dispensations were the continuing process of God's eternal plan.

Adam and Eve weren't children.

This is your opinion.