Is God Perfect?

[Angel]

About Eve and Adam´s condition, yes I would compare them with "toddlers" because they were naive and have no knowledge what right or wrong.

Hmm...who told you that Eve and Adam had no knowledge of good and evil?

Yes, God did gave them the knowledge of right and wrong in order to be able to make the "right" decision. Adam and Eve were given instructions from God, they knew was to not eat from the tree, and told them the consequences of doing so. Unfortunately they chose to disobey God on their own.

We all have this "terrible" feeling when we do something that isnt right so they knew what they were doing was wrong.

 

[TechBill]

And as I read on this thread I would like to add my 2 cent to it.

I don't recall bible made any mention the timeframe that Adam and Eve was create to the time they both took a bite from the forbidden apple.

So it could be the day tomorrow after they were created or maybe a year later or maybe 10,000 year later or maybe a million year later that they took a bite of that apple.

I would think if Adam was as human as we are today then it would been a very long time afterall it would taken quite a while to name every animals on earth since bible said that Adam did name every animal on earth. How long you think it would take you to name every animals on this earth? 1 day? 1 year? 10 year? 10,000 year? a million year?

So if is the case then they have a very full life experience before they took a bite of that apple.


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[Angel]

And as I read on this thread I would like to add my 2 cent to it.

I don't recall bible made any mention the timeframe that Adam and Eve was create to the time they both took a bite from the forbidden apple.

So it could be the day tomorrow after they were created or maybe a year later or maybe 10,000 year later or maybe a million year later that they took a bite of that apple.

I would think if Adam was as human as we are today then it would been a very long time afterall it would taken quite a while to name every animals on earth since bible said that Adam did name every animal on earth. How long you think it would take you to name every animals on this earth? 1 day? 1 year? 10 year? 10,000 year? a million year?

So if is the case then they have a very full life experience before they took a bite of that apple.


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Good point there!

 

[VamPyroX]

Hmm...who told you that Eve and Adam had no knowledge of good and evil?

Yes, God did gave them the knowledge of right and wrong in order to be able to make the "right" decision. Adam and Eve were given instructions from God, they knew was to not eat from the tree, and told them the consequences of doing so. Unfortunately they chose to disobey God on their own.

We all have this "terrible" feeling when we do something that isnt right so they knew what they were doing was wrong.

I thought God was so perfect that he could predict the future? He should have seen that Adam and Eve would have done it. In that case, he was encouraging it to happen.

If you knew that this particular guy was going to do drugs, but you put the drugs on the counter knowing that he will take it... then you're the one doing the encouraging.

 

[VamPyroX]

And as I read on this thread I would like to add my 2 cent to it.

I don't recall bible made any mention the timeframe that Adam and Eve was create to the time they both took a bite from the forbidden apple.

So it could be the day tomorrow after they were created or maybe a year later or maybe 10,000 year later or maybe a million year later that they took a bite of that apple.

I would think if Adam was as human as we are today then it would been a very long time afterall it would taken quite a while to name every animals on earth since bible said that Adam did name every animal on earth. How long you think it would take you to name every animals on this earth? 1 day? 1 year? 10 year? 10,000 year? a million year?

So if is the case then they have a very full life experience before they took a bite of that apple.


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So, you're saying that Adam and Eve were over 10,000 years old?

 

[TechBill]

So, you're saying that Adam and Eve were over 10,000 years old?

Can you point out to me where I said that Adam and Eve were over 10,000 year old?

And remember death didn't exist until they took that bite.


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[Cheri]

Can you point out to me where I said that Adam and Eve were over 10,000 year old?

And remember death didn't exist until they took that bite.


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Right, if they didn't took that bite, they would have live forever.

 

[Angel]

I thought God was so perfect that he could predict the future? He should have seen that Adam and Eve would have done it. In that case, he was encouraging it to happen.

God knows what we will choose beforehand, but that doesn’t mean that He predetermined them. He just predicted it. We are morally responsible for those choices, God loves us so much that He won’t take away our free will.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If God did not kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, they would live on the earth forever. When God said that if they eat a forbidden fruit, they will surely die. God kept His words honestly.

Honestly? God didn't said to them that he would throw them out of the garden or stop taking care of them if they disobeyed him in first place but just warned them that they will die if they eat a forbidden fruit.

Surely, Eve & Adam would not eat a forbidden fruit if they know about Satan's existence and will lost their garden home.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

It's not really a contest, Satan thinks that Job will turned his back on God, God does not think so. True love is a choice, Liebling. Job showed his true love for God, even when life got tough.

God hasn't done anything bad to Job, It was all Satan, All God did was sit back and did not interfere, When it was all over and Job stood right by God, an reward was given to Job a lot more than he ever had. It shows God is so loved.

"All God did was sat back and did not interfere"

All what I look the fact logic is: God started to tell Satan in pride way: "Look at Job. See how faithful he is to me." Satan argued back "He is faithful because you bless him & has many things but if you take these away, he will curse you."

God choose to say: "Go ahead, Take them away. Do all the bad things you want to Job. We will see if he curses me. Only be sure that you do not kill him." sound contest for Job's faith to me and want to know who faith him or Satan.

It would not happen if God didn't point Job to Satan in first place. That's how got Satan idea... so God let Satan do what he wants to make Job suffer badly... I mean REAL BADLY...

Good heart?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

How is that illogical? Every action has consequences.

Every choice that we make in life has consequences, some good, some bad.

That is totally logical.

Adam and Eve were adults. They made choices. They had to accept the consequences of their choices.

What is illogical about that?

Yes, that's right - we have in reality but compare with Eve & Adam's situtation is total different because we live on earth for many years to know what right and wrong and follow the consequences...

How do we know that Adam and Eve understood the consequences when they did not live in garden home for long before happens?

Genesis 3 tell a lot: Before they ate the forbidden fruit, they had no knowledge of good and evil.

It shows that they could not understand the consequences nor understand what right or wrong?

After they ate the piece of the fruit, then they knew good and evil is about but too late...


I would say that God choose to accept the consequences for give Eve and Adam choice for placed the tree in first place because he created everything with full knowledge of what will happen. It could be not that he deny his resonsible for that?

Right. Adam and Eve made their own choice to disobey God.

Are you sure that they understand what "death" is about? God should warn them to leave garden home if they touch forbidden tree. It would help them understand because they love their beautiful garden home.

Adam and Eve were created as full adults. God gave them all the knowledge that they needed. God warned them about the penalty for disobedience. It was their decision to ignore what God told them.

Yes, the fact is they were created as full adults but they have no knowledge of good and evil before they ate fruit from forbidden tree. They didn't live in garden home long until this happenend like we live many years to have knowledge what right and wrong.

Maybe it's because your logic is wrong.

Nope, few people I mean is Christians... because none answer my logic question...

Here is again...

IF God is powerful, loving and forgiving as what religion believers claim then not necassary to send his son to suffer to death for our sins. Why can´t God simple forgive the sins itself without send his son to the earth to suffer to death for us? The answer from some people (christians) doesn't convince my logic argument which mean is my question are being denied.

To which "specialist" do you go to get eternal life?

I thought the definiten I gave in my previous post helps. Oh it doesn't answer your question enough...

Okay, Reality: -
If I need help to cure my illness is DOCTOR...
If I need help to take care of my teeth then is DENTIST
If I need help to take care of my health then is HEALTH INFORMATION
If I need help to cure cancer to save my life then is SURGERON
If I need help to take care of my problem then is COUNSELLOR, THERAPY, etc.
If the poor children from poverty starve for foods and drink then GET IT FROM US.
If I need the help to positive my strength then DO POSTIVE MYSELF.
If my children need our helps then they will have it FROM US.
and go on....

All above is we get positive advice/information/help from ANY specialists..., not God.

Get it?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Do we have different bible ?

Therefore yes, we have different bible.

I hope above verses will make you understand that in fact, Job did complain and curse to God.

Interesting to read the list, you provided here what my bible doesn't write much.

Yes, Job complained over his pain but he did not curse God. His wife urged him to curse God but Job won't do it.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Maybe that's the way you see it but that's not what the Bible said.

Yes, I know they are fully adult but they have no knowledge of good and bad like toddler/children because they doesn't live on earth long to understand what good or bad yet until they ate fruit from forbidden tree...

This is what I asked you:

"Are you still going to control your sons' actions when they are adults?"

It's a simple question. It's not a "claim". It's not about a previous post. It's just a question.

Oh I got it. I thought it's relate this thread, you ask me question about. My answer is No.

No, it's not an opinion. It's a fact. Adam and Eve were not children. They were fully developed adults.

Does this sound like a description of children?

Genesis 2
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Yes I aware that they are fully adult with no knowledge of good and bad until they ate fruit from forbidden tree. That's why I call them "toddler" or "children" because toddlers and children have no knowledge what good and bad until they learn everyday for years... then they know what bad or good...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

God created Adam and Eve but they weren't children. They were adults.

Adam and Eve had knowledge because God specifically told them not to eat that fruit. They had full knowledge of that, and the penalty that would result.

You can "call it" whatever you want but they were still fully developed and knowing adults.

At least you are now calling them God's creation and the "first couple"; that's a start in the right direction.

I often said in previous post - creation children or first couple.

Yes I know they are fully adult but with no knowledge of good and bad yet until they ate piece of fruit from forbidden tree.

All what they got warned from God is they will die if they eat a forbidden fruit from that tree, that's all.

I guess it would be different if God tell them fully like that he would throw them out of the garden home if they disobeyed him and warn Satan's existence in first place but he doesn't.

 

[Cheri]

"All God did was sat back and did not interfere"

All what I look the fact logic is: God started to tell Satan in pride way: "Look at Job. See how faithful he is to me." Satan argued back "He is faithful because you bless him & has many things but if you take these away, he will curse you."

God choose to say: "Go ahead, Take them away. Do all the bad things you want to Job. We will see if he curses me. Only be sure that you do not kill him." sound contest for Job's faith to me and want to know who faith him or Satan.

It would not happen if God didn't point Job to Satan in first place. That's how got Satan idea... so God let Satan do what he wants to make Job suffer badly... I mean REAL BADLY...

Good heart?

That's the problem, you're using your logic thinking, instead of opening your heart to understand God.

How many people have turned their back on God, of their disobedience and refusal to accept Him and His ways for them? Too many, only a few stayed Faithful to God in the Old Testament.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

The animals that Job lost weren't "pets".

It's reality, I am referring to.

The children that Job lost weren't "replaced". They were added.

Notice:

Job 1
1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. 2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. 3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

Job 42
12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses. 13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.


At the end, God gave Job twice as many animals than before but He gave Job only the same number of children. Why? Because Job's first 10 children were waiting for him in Paradise. Eventually Job would be reunited with his original 10 children, and the second set of 10 children; that equals 20 children total. So in the end, Job was blessed with twice as many children than he had at the beginning.

Added? It didn't write exact HOW God add everything where Job lost? Do God add the children and animal to Job... How? Did God created them for Job? or Job and his wife created more children together? Did God send all of his children from heaven back to earth?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Hmm...who told you that Eve and Adam had no knowledge of good and evil?

Yes, God did gave them the knowledge of right and wrong in order to be able to make the "right" decision. Adam and Eve were given instructions from God, they knew was to not eat from the tree, and told them the consequences of doing so. Unfortunately they chose to disobey God on their own.

We all have this "terrible" feeling when we do something that isnt right so they knew what they were doing was wrong.

No, Eve and Adam had no knowledge of good and bad yet until they ate a fruit from forbidden tree. Genesis 3:22 In Genesis 3

How do we know how could Adam and Eve understood the consequences until after they ate a piece of forbidden fruit?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I thought God was so perfect that he could predict the future? He should have seen that Adam and Eve would have done it. In that case, he was encouraging it to happen.

If you knew that this particular guy was going to do drugs, but you put the drugs on the counter knowing that he will take it... then you're the one doing the encouraging.

Compared with Eve & Adam -When I tell my toddler not to touch a hot stove because he'll get burnt. He have no clue what it is about. He choose to not obey me & touch the hot stove. He got burnt. Is it make what and how he did wrong? All what I know is he suffered the consequences of disobeying me. I would never do that...

God choose to accept the consequences of give freewill when he knew it will happens.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Originally Posted by TechBill
And as I read on this thread I would like to add my 2 cent to it.

I don't recall bible made any mention the timeframe that Adam and Eve was create to the time they both took a bite from the forbidden apple.

So it could be the day tomorrow after they were created or maybe a year later or maybe 10,000 year later or maybe a million year later that they took a bite of that apple.
I would think if Adam was as human as we are today then it would been a very long time afterall it would taken quite a while to name every animals on earth since bible said that Adam did name every animal on earth. How long you think it would take you to name every animals on this earth? 1 day? 1 year? 10 year? 10,000 year? a million year?

So if is the case then they have a very full life experience before they took a bite of that apple.

Can I ask a question? Which religion you beleive in? I only want to let you know that Christians beleive in earth is few thousand years old. Your post got me confused because you mentioned 10,000 year later or million year later.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

That's the problem, you're using your logic thinking, instead of opening your heart to understand God.

How many people have turned their back on God, of their disobedience and refusal to accept Him and His ways for them? Too many, only a few stayed Faithful to God in the Old Testament.

Sorry, I have no heart for anyone including God who let or make the people suffer or kill them for their rejection. Worst is children and newborns.

Sorry, I am soft heart to poor people including children and newborns who suffers and have to die.

To me, if anyone choose to faith differently or beleive differently then let them... instead of make them to faith or beleive in God.